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RTS games, looking for some 'racy' ideas... :D


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#21 Luckless   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 1891

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 07:07 PM

An idea inspired by C&C's story line: What if one of the race options was the Tiberium?

Game play based on critical mass and spreading to collect power, the normal races would be forced to track your movements and try to contain you. Battling you directly could net them resource boosts, your core bases become resource nodes they can attempt to pacify and control if you lack the energy reserves to repel them. On the other hand their own bases and battlefields become fertile ground for you to establish new colonies of your substance and give them a massive jump start in growth if they fail to keep you from taking a foothold. Your goal would be to claim enough territory that you can gather your energy at a rate faster than other sides could combat you, and then you overwhelm them in a wave of infectious materials.
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#22 Dan Violet Sagmiller   Members   -  Reputation: 897

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 08:57 PM

Something probably difficult to balance with more traditional factions but also probably very fun to play with, nomads. It could be prehistoric nomads, hi-tech nomads, magical alien nomads, whatever. The fundamental thing is nomads. They have to move around constantly (because reasons).
 
Think about the mobile base of Command & Conquer, but with all sort of constructions.

 

I.e. instead of building bases that are solid, or grounded bunkers, everything could be built as a vehicle.  mobile.  Perhaps they lack defenses, but instead can move their whole base as easily as moving a squad of troops.  perhaps they are best with understanding the environment and how to use it.  I think this could be effective, but my current design needs something more permanent.  But since my plans are not permanent yet, I'll keep this in mind.


Moltar - "Do you even know how to use that?"

Space Ghost - “Moltar, I have a giant brain that is able to reduce any complex machine into a simple yes or no answer."

Dan - "Best Description of AI ever."

My Game(s), Warp Wars is in early development and can be found here: http://blog.WarpWars.Net.


#23 Kenji Kousagi   Members   -  Reputation: 124

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 12:23 PM

I like to do a little mix and matching with race ideas. If your doing a scifi game, try to take a fantasy based thing and revamp it in a way that fantasy would do it.

For example: Dragons. Everyone knows what they are but if im in a super futuristic alien setting then what if I introduce dragons as the aliens? Just cause they are aliens doesnt mean you have to change the way they look.

 

If you read a little into World of warcraft, the orcs are technically aliens. Threw me for a loop x.x


Edited by Kenji Kousagi, 14 January 2013 - 12:24 PM.


#24 AltarofScience   Members   -  Reputation: 935

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 01:42 PM

I like to do a little mix and matching with race ideas. If your doing a scifi game, try to take a fantasy based thing and revamp it in a way that fantasy would do it.

For example: Dragons. Everyone knows what they are but if im in a super futuristic alien setting then what if I introduce dragons as the aliens? Just cause they are aliens doesnt mean you have to change the way they look.

 

If you read a little into World of warcraft, the orcs are technically aliens. Threw me for a loop x.x

They totally stole that from Warhammer. Dragons as aliens is done a little bit in literature. Technically the Pern series by Anne McCaffery is sci-fi even though it might seem like fantasy at first. Also some crappy sci fi movies have dragons hatching from asteroids and shit. And then one where they create a dragon in a lab from ancient DNA.



#25 Kenji Kousagi   Members   -  Reputation: 124

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 01:04 AM

They totally stole that from Warhammer. Dragons as aliens is done a little bit in literature. Technically the Pern series by Anne McCaffery is sci-fi even though it might seem like fantasy at first. Also some crappy sci fi movies have dragons hatching from asteroids and shit. And then one where they create a dragon in a lab from ancient DNA.

 

Man have i been out of it for a while. Those scifi movies drive me crazy.

 

There was a game I played a while back where the race was all demon summoners and they had no structures. Just guys that summon more guys. Universe at war had a race where their structures were huge walkers. So in effect, they are a unit driven faction.

 

A game I got in the works involves an AI that controls the army, kinda like a mechanical zerg of a sorts. It can take wrecked tanks and buildings and turn 'em into resources to make more. When you apply an upgrade, it's more like a software patch. When your units recieve the patch (at your coice in time), they need to shutdown to install the update.



#26 AltarofScience   Members   -  Reputation: 935

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 03:30 AM

Ha, I would play that.



#27 jbadams   Senior Staff   -  Reputation: 19418

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 04:48 AM

How about something based around crystals like the Kryptonian ones from Superman -- when used correctly they're able to grow crystaline structures or even land-masses which take on certain properties based on their surrounding environment?  I don't really have ideas for similar mobile units, but it could be an interesting idea for structures.



#28 AltarofScience   Members   -  Reputation: 935

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 05:06 AM

How about something based around crystals like the Kryptonian ones from Superman -- when used correctly they're able to grow crystaline structures or even land-masses which take on certain properties based on their surrounding environment?  I don't really have ideas for similar mobile units, but it could be an interesting idea for structures.

The Tok'ra used crystals for construction in a similar fashion.



#29 Kenji Kousagi   Members   -  Reputation: 124

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 06:50 AM

A faction where its based on illusions made real. You have your main guy who conjures up his illusions, be it buildings or units or the illusion buildings can create more illusions. You can summon illusions of your leader (but only a few) to help keep him alive. To keep players from running their leader to a corner and hiding him, anything he summons can only exist within a certain range of him. If he moves out of range they fade away only to comeback when he moves back in range. There could even be sub-illusionist so that you can take them on assaults on enemy bases.



#30 Dan Violet Sagmiller   Members   -  Reputation: 897

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 07:37 AM

If he moves out of range they fade away only to comeback when he moves back in range

 

I like this.  the idea that there are illusion buildings that take damage and give damage or do actual things in the game.  And you need your character to stay within range of them, or they fade out & stop working.  Then, moving back in range and they activate.  I like the idea of there being traps, like a dozen turrets, and as the enemy troops approach, a couple of these conjurer characters approach at the sides, and dozens of defensive turrets show up.

 

I also like the idea that if another unit is in a turret's spot when the conjurer shows up, that the turret does not reappear/activate.  however, as soon as they walk out from under it, it snaps into place.  I also like crossing the Terran Satellite with this.  How from a distance, you can see all things (including cloaked).  Except that this would make the turrets visible to the opponent in this case, providing limited activation time. 

 

Then the ability can double, where if you are being over run, you can deactivate it, and all the buildings dissapear into a deactivated state.  If they are on fire, the fire will still be there when they re-appear, but no damage will be taken while they were deactivated.


Edited by hpdvs2, 15 January 2013 - 07:41 AM.

Moltar - "Do you even know how to use that?"

Space Ghost - “Moltar, I have a giant brain that is able to reduce any complex machine into a simple yes or no answer."

Dan - "Best Description of AI ever."

My Game(s), Warp Wars is in early development and can be found here: http://blog.WarpWars.Net.


#31 TechnoGoth   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 2798

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 07:53 PM

I always thought a game with these 4 races would make a fun urban rts: 

 

Martian war machines - No construction or base building, Start with a set amount points and never gets any more that they have to use to buy war machines that are sent from mars. Similar to war of the worlds. This race is about a few set piece super units  and careful battle field tactics. So you might have a enough points to call in 3 walkers on a map but once they are gone they gone.

 

Ninjas - Fully customizable units that rely on stealth and quick strikes. Hidden bases with quick travel build options around the map. Limited to only a handful of units on the battle field at a time.   

 

Zombies - Aggressive neutral race uncontrolled and attack everyone else.  Slowly spreed throughout the city unless contained.  Danger to everyone but the martians.  Martians can spreed the zombie virus and indirectly control them with the right unit.

 

Human Soldiers - performance based resource allocation points which determine the size and units within the army.  Can build defense bases and command posts.  Instead of building individual units you plan and build entire squads or divisions and then deploy them as a whole to the battle field provided you have enough RAP available.

 

The idea was that all 3 playable races played completely differently with different goals.  Game play was more victory point based as well.  So while the army is defending city  streets from the zombie horde and alien war machines the ninja's are robbing banks, killing vips, or taking out units on both sides. 

 

 

My three most hated aspects of rts games though have always been:

1 - Winner goes to first move advantage - whoever comes out the best from the opening attack is most likely going to win.

2 - Winner goes to best microer -  Whichever player is best a micro managing units is the one who will win.

3 - Tech Trees -  Why do I have to waste time leveling up buildings on the battle field.  Let me choose my tech level and initial setup before the battle starts with army points or some other system.  



#32 Kenji Kousagi   Members   -  Reputation: 124

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 07:20 AM

I'm going to point out something real quick here.

A game like that would involve an incredible amount of micro for success. Especially mars. With only a few units period you can't afford to lose one. As for tech trees, mars and the army would definately benefit. Even in TD games you upgrade your turrets. The reason most of those mechanics exist, is because it works well.

 

On a more positive side:

The ninjas sound pretty great though. Kinda ignore the other players as a whole and focus on a pve enviroment in a pvp game.

I like the feel behind your game idea as a whole, it really breaks down well. Makes the players focus on one aspect of a typical RTS. Like horde fighting? Army. Micro? Mars. Caring less about other players as a whole (and being totaly awesome)? Ninjas



#33 Dan Violet Sagmiller   Members   -  Reputation: 897

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 07:45 AM

My three most hated aspects of rts games though have always been:
1 - Winner goes to first move advantage - whoever comes out the best from the opening attack is most likely going to win.
2 - Winner goes to best microer -  Whichever player is best a micro managing units is the one who will win.
3 - Tech Trees -  Why do I have to waste time leveling up buildings on the battle field.  Let me choose my tech level and initial setup before the battle starts with army points or some other system.  

 - Though related to another post, these are good points.  

I believe 1 can be accomplished by making opening defenses stronger in the game, but also more distributed.  You can't take a base full force for a while.  (instead of training a bunch of Zerglings sending them over to the enemy site, and taking out their finances right away.)  but also more distributed defenses, so you have to take out several points.  even if you take out one, there are still a few more to go through.

 

I believe I have 2 solved with squad management, ai's and larger teams that are far more random.  I have other posts relating to that.

 

and 3, I agree about the tech trees.  Much of the work should already be done off the field.  How often do we see real militaries create a base in the middle of a battle field and start training new soldiers?  Or factories?  These are things *usually* done offsite in safer locations.


Moltar - "Do you even know how to use that?"

Space Ghost - “Moltar, I have a giant brain that is able to reduce any complex machine into a simple yes or no answer."

Dan - "Best Description of AI ever."

My Game(s), Warp Wars is in early development and can be found here: http://blog.WarpWars.Net.


#34 Dan Violet Sagmiller   Members   -  Reputation: 897

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 08:09 AM

A game like that would involve an incredible amount of micro for success. Especially mars. With only a few units period you can't afford to lose one.

Agreed, if the units were the focus, and the squad leader wasn't also incharge of getting food and managing construction and paying attention to enemy approaches.  Sort of like the Starcraft levels where you don't build anything, but you are just going through a compound to get something.

 

As for tech trees, mars and the army would definately benefit. Even in TD games you upgrade your turrets. The reason most of those mechanics exist, is because it works well.

Why do I have to waste time leveling up buildings on the battle field.  Let me choose my tech level and initial setup before the battle starts with army points or some other system.  

 

Putting these things together, here is a thought.  What if, once you have the technology known, each upgrade has a cost, and has a time added to it.  Of course research in the first place might take time, but ultimately, you just say what your default tank is to include.  Then you just tell a factory to produce x number of tanks  (Not just a queue of 5 for instance)  Perhaps you tell one factory to just keep producing them.  

 

The idea being that you establish the default for your tanks, and then they just get built that way.  But you could always click on a factory, and alter the way it produces tanks individually.  Perhaps I want 3 tanks that have mine dissablers in front who will rotate on leading a pack of a dozen tanks.  Its not that I'm paying for all my tanks to have that ability, just 3.  

 

With this, you could come into a war with considerable amounts of capabilities, but you need to build up your material sources and factories to build them first.  The more interesting capabilities they get, the longer and more expensive a single tank will be.  but if you just go for the basic low armor, large rotating ground cannon, there pretty fast.  but then you add on auto aiming machine guns, Surface to air tracking missiles, mine dissabler, Extra Armor, boosted engines and aim guidance systems, suddenly your tank costs 3 times as much and takes 3 times as long to build.  in the mean time the enemy already has two simple tanks shooting your tank factory, and 1 more almost built.

 

I also like the idea of repair stations and upgrades for factories.  For instance having "scrap yard" so to speak, where you send tanks that need upgrades or repairs.  Perhaps you get a simple flag, upgrade all tanks to X level armor, if they aren't already there, and repair anything.  Also set to salvage auto machine guns, as the setup isn't proving useful, and you could get money back on that, or use the guns as upgrades for soldiers.  blah blah blah, I feel like I'm ranting now.

 

But between your two posts, (particularly earlier in them) I really like the idea of multiple goals that are unrelated.  Sort of like capture the flag.  but more flexible.  for instance, the zerg want the plant and animal life in the area, so they try to "sap the life" from all the living things.  Perhaps the protoss are after a spacial fleck material that is there from an exploded citadel from centuries before.  but to get to that, they need all structures (hive/command center) out of the way to extract the materials from the ground.  And then the terran want all the chrystal for powering space crafts.  While the other sides can perhaps make use of this stuff, it is not a major goal of theres. The game is over once a single side completes its objectives, even if the others are not destroyed.


Moltar - "Do you even know how to use that?"

Space Ghost - “Moltar, I have a giant brain that is able to reduce any complex machine into a simple yes or no answer."

Dan - "Best Description of AI ever."

My Game(s), Warp Wars is in early development and can be found here: http://blog.WarpWars.Net.


#35 AltarofScience   Members   -  Reputation: 935

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 03:07 PM

You could easily make an AI that plays differently each time. But apparently it actually pisses players off. Humans are weird.



#36 Kenji Kousagi   Members   -  Reputation: 124

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 11:36 PM

I like that. All your tech is available right from the get go. You just customize your tank the way you like it and each addon costs X amount. That way it feels like more of the players coll guys not just; 'I win 'cause I upgraded faster.



#37 AltarofScience   Members   -  Reputation: 935

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 02:26 AM

But then its just I win cause I picked the right combination of stats and my opponent had no way to respond because he didn't know what I picked until it was too late.



#38 Dan Violet Sagmiller   Members   -  Reputation: 897

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 09:14 AM

You could easily make an AI that plays differently each time. But apparently it actually pisses players off. Humans are weird.

 

Do you have a reference to this?  I'm not challenging it, but I do want to read about the context it was studied, like what game or test was done in this study.  AI playing differently could mean a lot of things.


Moltar - "Do you even know how to use that?"

Space Ghost - “Moltar, I have a giant brain that is able to reduce any complex machine into a simple yes or no answer."

Dan - "Best Description of AI ever."

My Game(s), Warp Wars is in early development and can be found here: http://blog.WarpWars.Net.


#39 Dan Violet Sagmiller   Members   -  Reputation: 897

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 10:15 AM

like that. All your tech is available right from the get go. You just customize your tank the way you like it and each addon costs X amount. That way it feels like more of the players coll guys not just; 'I win 'cause I upgraded faster.

But then its just I win cause I picked the right combination of stats and my opponent had no way to respond because he didn't know what I picked until it was too late.

 

The addon's can be visible, and they way I figure, if the games increased the defensive capabilities, then you have time to react to knowledge acquisition.  I see much of the upgrades, as increasing flexibility, not power.  for instance a tank might have upgrades for Mine Collector (to collect up mines in front of it), auto turrent machine guns (to deal with troop attacks), Water Treds (to go over corner water tiles) and other feature flexible upgrades.  It means that it changes the way that tactics work.  I also like the idea that a single tank can not have every feature, so you can't "max" a tank out.  you can only adapt it to the needs of the game.  Espeically if your 'factory' for tanks could also just take a line of existing tanks, and refit them with a different setup that would be a lot faster.  So, a variety of tanks approach from the south, and working on earlier defenses.  You take a squad of tanks and run them through modifications as the enemy makes there way up.  

 

Essentially, I like the idea that defenses are strong, and there is a value to the base besides the distance from the enemies base.  I haven't seen as much in the way of seiges in modern RTS's.  It takes a while to break through.


Moltar - "Do you even know how to use that?"

Space Ghost - “Moltar, I have a giant brain that is able to reduce any complex machine into a simple yes or no answer."

Dan - "Best Description of AI ever."

My Game(s), Warp Wars is in early development and can be found here: http://blog.WarpWars.Net.





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