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Rudeness in computer science?


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#41 JonathanJ1990   Members   -  Reputation: 167

Posted 20 January 2013 - 12:49 PM

I know a lot of rude programmers as well it kind of comes with the fact that  it's not a major many people understand or appreciate. because in general the mass public thinks all programmers are geniuses i have met a lot who kind of take that position and thinking too far.  then it's funny because In my experience the more skilled the programmer the more rude they are to other killed programmers. at my last Job we had a very intelligent UI programmer and a very intelligent A.I. programmer who couldn't see eye to eye . they never agreed on how to do something and if the game broke it was always the others fault ( even when it was neither of theirs) .   

 

I don't know I red somewhere that because the mass public sees us as wizards in general or uber nerds with untouchable brain capacities( no i don't agree with that) it makes computer science majors seem like wizards and usually the only people who can correct a computer science major are....other computer science majors.

 

Just a few weeks ago I went to a local game industry meet-up event and I met a very intelligent young programmer who basically blasted every other type of programmer...on the basis that he knew how long it took the computer to process a Hash-table. I'm not exaggerating , he literally stroked his own ego at the fact he knew how long it took to sort or process hash-tables and how to optimize code to reduce compiling times by milliseconds even going on to say how pitiful it was older programmers did not appreciate or maintain that same knowledge .  He was  also laughing at the simplicity of other programmers who were excited that they could make " mario-clones"  .  i just nodded and let him enjoy his night. he certainly considered his mind to be greater than others and who am I to disturb that belief?


Edited by JonathanJ1990, 20 January 2013 - 12:57 PM.


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#42 ChaosEngine   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 2395

Posted 20 January 2013 - 02:11 PM

Christ, another one of these threads? 

 

A few years ago, I worked for a company that had very strict code reviews. Every time you checked in some code, it was automatically assigned to a senior engineer to review, and would not be committed until approved. One day two separate pieces of code came across my desk for review and both were terrible. I sent both back, with notes explaining why they were fundamentally flawed. One of the authors came over to me and asked if I had some time to go through the problem with him and see if we could find a better solution, the other went to my manager and accused me of bullying. Guess which contract was renewed?

 

Yes, some programmers are rude. Yes, sometimes advice you get on forums will be terse or even dismissive. 

 

Get over it.

 

Seriously, out in the big bad world no-one is going to hold your hand. No-one is under any obligation to be nice to you, especially if you are the one asking for help. People are busy and you should be profoundly grateful that they are using their own time to help you for free. 

 

Now, all that said, I generally try not to be a dick to people. It's part of my "don't be a dick to people" overall philosophy. But if someone interprets something I've said as rude, I won't lose any sleep over it.


if you think programming is like sex, you probably haven't done much of either.-------------- - capn_midnight

#43 AltarofScience   Members   -  Reputation: 934

Posted 20 January 2013 - 05:26 PM

You, Glassknife, may not have the free time to deal with every mediocre person trying to suck your time and knowledge, but I bet you dollars to donuts(damn I've always wanted to say that) that that guy you think is a total self absorbed arrogant jerk feels the exact same way about you!

 

 

Of course he did.  This guy hated me.  The difference between us was that while he tried to make sure everyone knew how smart he was, I was busy helping the other programmers in the group get the job done.  I left years ago, and both of us wrote a lot of code, and all the code we both wrote is still being used years later.  

 

I recently read a book (I can't remember the title) where the author pointed out that being a programmer was like being a doctor, and the patient the customer.  While you need to give the customer what they want, sometimes you shouldn't listen to them.  The author's example was a patient who suggested that washing hands before his surgery was a waste of time, so don't do it.  It is the doctor's responsibility to not kill his customer, and so he doesn't listen, he does what is right, and washes his hands.

 

The same goes for a project manager that suggests testing code is a waste of time, so don't do it.  Depending on the job, it may be the programmers responsibilty to ignore the manager and do what's right.  This is just an example, so don't take it as carved in stone.  But hopefully you see my point.

 

The same can be said for bedside manner, which is similar to a programmers ability to speak to others about the programming craft.  While some doctors may believe that bedside manner is a waste of time, it is what separates a good doctor from a great one. It is a huge cop-out to say "The reason I can't talk to people is because f*** you.  I'm too busy to learn how to communicate effectively."

You were trying to help programmers on a relatively more similar level to you than he was to you or them. Anyone who has worked in a group has had that partner/group member where you just had to say fuck you and ignore them. How much time did you REALLY spend determining whether that was the case with you? It may absolutely not have been, but did you even think of that and work through it?



#44 Dwarf King   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 1861

Posted 21 January 2013 - 02:04 AM

Why use bad words when you can tell a person this is not possible and then show or explain why it is not possible? One of the greatest traits of a CS student/ CS post graduated should be patient and humbleness. That will lead to respect and higher learning speed. Ignorance and arrogance will always be the doom of a man.

 

Also if people start to show symptoms of anger one will not die for asking "did I say something that offended you here?".  Communicating in a civilized way is a must if one shall be able to work with others. That means all kind of bad words must be removed from the conversation and pure logic and rational argumentation is to be used. Also by using a little humor the ice can be broken tongue.png

 

Now I am perfectly aware that some people strongly believe that a piece of paper that says they are CS graduated grant them the right to be arrogant and harsh to people without this piece of paper, but in the end they are simply just ignoring the very fact that each year new students and self taught people will enter this business and they will be damn good and often better than the people with the exam paper. I still remember one project where a student would explode in anger in front of a professor because the professor was outright wrong(and he was) and kept on denying that he was wrong. Later on he tried to fix it by finding some material about it(not very good by the way). I ended up finding the material for my fellow student and all seemed fine then. The lesson learned here was that this highly educated professor would not admit that he did not know enough of this topic and had to go back and make some research first so he took a chance and told us something wrong(bad style), and got caught in this by a very sharp fellow student. It seems that rudeness and arrogance are a cover shield by some CS graduated after all biggrin.png  


"The only thing that interferes with my learning is my education"

Albert Einstein

"It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education"

Albert Einstein

 


#45 Glass_Knife   Moderators   -  Reputation: 4491

Posted 21 January 2013 - 06:46 AM

You were trying to help programmers on a relatively more similar level to you than he was to you or them. Anyone who has worked in a group has had that partner/group member where you just had to say fuck you and ignore them. How much time did you REALLY spend determining whether that was the case with you? It may absolutely not have been, but did you even think of that and work through it?

 

Not really on topic anymore, (sorry OP) but it wasn't that he didn't like me, but worked well with everyone else.  No one on the team could work with him.  He would yell and scream at people in the hall all the time.  I didn't know a single person that could work with him.  So I don't think it was the case that you pointed out.


I think, therefore I am. I think? - "George Carlin"
Indie Game Programming

#46 AltarofScience   Members   -  Reputation: 934

Posted 21 January 2013 - 01:05 PM

You were trying to help programmers on a relatively more similar level to you than he was to you or them. Anyone who has worked in a group has had that partner/group member where you just had to say fuck you and ignore them. How much time did you REALLY spend determining whether that was the case with you? It may absolutely not have been, but did you even think of that and work through it?
 

 

 

Not really on topic anymore, (sorry OP) but it wasn't that he didn't like me, but worked well with everyone else.  No one on the team could work with him.  He would yell and scream at people in the hall all the time.  I didn't know a single person that could work with him.  So I don't think it was the case that you pointed out.

That's not relevant unless there were other programmers of a sufficiently similar skill level to him. And since you didn't say that there were, I assumed that there weren't.



#47 Bregma   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 5182

Posted 21 January 2013 - 03:01 PM

The only commonality in all your failed relationships is YOU.


Stephen M. Webb
Professional Free Software Developer

#48 swiftcoder   Senior Moderators   -  Reputation: 10063

Posted 21 January 2013 - 03:03 PM

The only commonality in all your failed relationships is YOU.

And with that, I honestly think we are done here.

Tristam MacDonald - Software Engineer @Amazon - [swiftcoding]





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