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Project: Alter Ego - Leveling/Stat Gain Mechanic


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#21 Milcho   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 1176

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 09:59 AM

Still, it's a very cool idea and its an interesting approach to preventing grinding on low level creatures...though just diminishing XP rewards on lower level mobs accomplishes this as well, and is the usual route taken.

 

A few years ago I was thinking about the diminishing returns from mobs - and similar to what you said, I thought that people do learn when faced with new and unknown things.

 

I considered a system where the amount of xp you get from a mob is inversely proprotional to the number of mobs of that type you've fought. So, the more you fight the same mob, the less xp you'll get out of it. On the flipside, the more you fight a certain mob, the more damage you'll deal. (both an determined by an asymptotic function, the xp's asymptote being 0, the damage multiplier being something like 2 or so)

Basically the idea is that if you fight something for the first time, you learn more from it, and the more you fight it the less you get out of it - but the better you are at fighting it.

 

Based on what you said, this can be extended to humanoids, by assigning each humanoid npc some sort of fighting style - which would be the determining factor for xp. If you fight npcs with the same fighting style, you gain progressively less xp from them. The damage can be a combination of how many overall you've fought + how many from this fighting style you've fought. (basically you get better at reading humans, and better at countering the fighting style)

 

typed that up in a real rush hope it makes sense.



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#22 thade   Members   -  Reputation: 1652

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 10:12 AM

It does make sense, and - again - I like the concept. I think I'd like to see this kind of thing in a Demon Souls game. But then, I think in a game like that I'd much prefer to see a very, very wide diversity of enemy types (where keeping count of them would make for a needlessly bloated experience system) and, again, we're facing a trap of making the game too complicated just by the amount of numbers visible to the player. If we're not showing the player these numbers (with any more meaning than the number of them we've killed) then what value do we really get out of them using them for an experience system?

 

I'm not saying it's not doable (and it may not be nearly as awkward as I'm picturing it) but that's my initial impression. Whether XP diminishes for lv10 Skeletons or all lv10 mobs, XP is still diminishing with the goal of pushing the player forward to new areas and tougher opponents. If that's the ultimate goal, why make the system sensitive to enemy types and not just level (regional)?


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#23 Milcho   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 1176

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 10:50 AM

If we're not showing the player these numbers (with any more meaning than the number of them we've killed) then what value do we really get out of them using them for an experience system?

 

I don't think player should be shown how many enemies of a type or with a fighting style he has killed. 

And it will have a direct effect on the xp gain as well as how easy it is to fight that enemy - both of which are usually clearly noticeable by the player.



#24 SinisterPride   Members   -  Reputation: 210

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 10:58 AM

Still, it's a very cool idea and its an interesting approach to preventing grinding on low level creatures...though just diminishing XP rewards on lower level mobs accomplishes this as well, and is the usual route taken.

 

Valid point and GREAT example in Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon laugh.png I love that scene !! tongue.png However I think I may be able to find a way for it to work.

 

I'm not saying it's not doable (and it may not be nearly as awkward as I'm picturing it) but that's my initial impression. Whether XP diminishes for lv10 Skeletons or all lv10 mobs, XP is still diminishing with the goal of pushing the player forward to new areas and tougher opponents. If that's the ultimate goal, why make the system sensitive to enemy types and not just level (regional)?

 

It may be how you're relating it to past expieriences thats causing it to seem awkward. I think its doable if the enemies have different styles like Milcho proposed (so instead of only mob types there would be a sub type in a sense for each mob type that would equal its style).

 

Then aside from mob level (growth stats would be applied to this mob(s) to differentiate their levels) a skill level would be applied to to their style. So to put it into terms of my system specifically (this might make more sense when i post the mastery sytem after this reply but you can get an idea from just this post) a mob can be catergorized by whats available in its masteries (how much of each discipline it knows) and its ai/how it uses those skills (essentially its "style") would be its skill level.

 

To put it into more raw terms:

 

-A mob can have any of the stats described in the growth system (maybe even gain them from you if you fight them and havent killed them/they havent respawned o_O). Lets use a human for now.

 

-This humans style would be dictated by what disciplines it practices (lets say its a ranged fighter who also uses magic) so it could be sub catergorized as lets say a "witch-hunter". The available disciplines will dictate its style of fighting.

 

-The human mobs' skill level will be determined by its masteries (again might make more sense after my next post). Essentially its masteries will determine its damage or difficulty to fight along with its disciplines. This will act as the determining factor if I combine both your idea with what Milcho and WodinOneEye had proposed.

 

A few years ago I was thinking about the diminishing returns from mobs - and similar to what you said, I thought that people do learn when faced with new and unknown things.

The damage can be a combination of how many overall you've fought + how many from this fighting style you've fought. (basically you get better at reading humans, and better at countering the fighting style)

 

Great feedback/input. It goes well with the other ideas/post that were recently said.

 

I don't think player should be shown how many enemies of a type or with a fighting style he has killed. 
And it will have a direct effect on the xp gain as well as how easy it is to fight that enemy - both of which are usually clearly noticeable by the player.

 

Agreed, I think the way I mentioned should work well without having to show any stat/level numbers to the player. The fighting itself should give it away. Even though certain subtle hints shouldnt hurt. Maybe something like their equipment types (higher quality indicates tougher enemies or more scars shows more expierience).


Edited by SinisterPride, 30 January 2013 - 11:03 AM.


#25 powerneg   Members   -  Reputation: 1463

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 10:05 PM

question: was the opening post even about macro's against cheaters or just a (seemingly harsh) reward/punish-system ?
cheaters aren't realy an issue in a single-player-game, since the only ones they can cheat are themselves, same goes for players who would like to play the game "their way"

the exhaustion(bruises) from combat looks good, make sure players won't have (much) difficulty in figuring out how much/whether they 've been hurt though.
concerning this, is in-combat-healing different from out-of-combat healing ?
(what i mean is do you have a seperation of HP in one combat and another bar/stat for how much combat you've had and you might have to rest for a bit)






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