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and again... New Wanna-Be-Gamemaker Dude.


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#1 mchedlo213   Members   -  Reputation: 110

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 11:38 PM

Hello ;)
Just registered on this site,it looks really good,people giving advice,sharing information,not trolling and etc.
Now as other many users out there,i'm also a newbie wanna-b-developer.
Unfortunately,i have no experience,except playing games and messing around (just a little bit,little little bit) with GameMaker.
I digged deeper and this is what i found.
Since i want to be indie game developer (at least till i can be pro and maybe start thinking about getting a job),i wonder where can i start.
i looked through topics here,checked some other resources.
First of all,it's about programming.I don't have any experience,but i think i can handle it,because from what i see,it's kinda hobby of my life (making games that is).At first i was going to start with C++ as there quite a lot of people who suggest it, it's kinda "main" language on which games are made.But looking through other resources i saw that it might not be the best idea.so i decided to learn another language,a little bit simplier,just to start with,to understand how things work,what it is  to program and so on.since i'll be focusing on 2d games for quite a time,till i am comfortable with programming,sure that i can do that stuff,maybe even sell 1 copy of my game,then i will think about thinking to move to 3D.
the languages World Wide Web suggested me are as follows:
-Python
-Lua
-C++ (still add to this list...)
-C#
-Javascript and HTML
...
now since i don't and won't be surfing and trying to conquer web,i won't be fooling around with HTML or javascript.
but i'm not sure about other ones in the list.
also here's famous list of engines i looked through and i wonder if these are at least Ok to start with:
-Allegro Library
-Box2D
-Cocos2D
-Flexible Isometric Free Engine

-Ignifuga Game Engine
-IwGame engine
-Lavgine

-LOVE

-Stratagus
-ZenGL

i'm also interested if there are any 3D engines that can be used effectively for making 2d game 

thnx in advance ;)



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#2 Luis Guimaraes   Members   -  Reputation: 231

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 11:55 PM

With Unity and C# you can do a lot of stuff, both 2d and 3d.



#3 Agbahlok   Members   -  Reputation: 262

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 12:19 AM

This should be the first place where you go when you don't have much experience: http://www.gamefromscratch.com/post/2011/08/04/I-want-to-be-a-game-developer.aspx

 

There is a lot of information that will help you to have a good start and not to just waste time. 

I have few advises for you as well.

 

DON'T try to use ANY of the game engines you have listed in here without first learning solid foundation of programming language of your choice.

Don't spend too much time at choosing the language you are going to learn. First pick barely matters as long as it's not Assembler happy.png I mean you can go for Python, Java, C#, even C++ if you have plenty of time and a lot of enthusiasm.

 

Oh, everything depends on what kind of games you'd like to make. I mean, you could also make browser games with help of HTML5 and PHP or ASP.NET.

 

I wish you best of luck.



#4 mchedlo213   Members   -  Reputation: 110

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 03:56 AM

i have like 2-3 weeks of spare time before my university starts.
in that time i'll be less available,but still manage to study and learn.

as i said, i'll be focused on 2D games,platformers,more casual games maybe,some (really) good examples would include Limbo,Machinarium,Crayon Physics,Super Meat Boy,from recent games i would also like to mention The Cave...
thus i don't want to mess around with complex engines or complex stuff,like 3D and so on...

Agbahlok,i already read that topic,it was quite informative i gotta say,that's why i asked which language is relatively easy and at the same time relatively close to game developing and programming as well...

 

yes,and another thing,quite important,it would be great if language i'm about to learn does have Free stuff with it,i mean IDEs,compilers,even engines later...
also i wonder if engine is programmed with certain language can i program and use another one while i'm using that engine ?


Edited by mchedlo213, 04 February 2013 - 03:59 AM.


#5 Agbahlok   Members   -  Reputation: 262

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 05:06 AM

Well, you can find decent and free IDE for any popular programming language.

About the choice of language I don't know what would fit you. Maybe C# ? C# is relatively easy language to learn, it's pure object-oriented and there is XNA framework available for free, which is very easy as well. About the IDE there is Visual C# 2010 Express released by Microsoft, which you can use for free for non-commercial as well as for commercial purpose. Also as far as I know Magicka and Terraria were made with help of XNA, so you could make quiet decent game with C# and XNA theoretically.

Btw. did you take a look at Unity3D, UDK and CryENGINE 3 SDK ? These are pretty decent tools as well and could help you get involved into the game development in more of the visual way, though there is still quiet powerful scripting in these tools.

Edited by Agbahlok, 04 February 2013 - 05:07 AM.


#6 mchedlo213   Members   -  Reputation: 110

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 05:32 AM

i doubt about UDK and CryENGINE,but Unity seems quite interesting,considering there are some really interesting 2D games made,as well as simple (yet really goood) 3D games...
frankly i was planning to check out python,lua,maybe even adobe flash...
now i'm thinking about C#,C++ (still xD)...
i also checked engines,and as far as i can see,C++ is overally still needed and eventually i'll have to learn it...
probably will carry on learning C++ ...
also will probably check (later ofc) Box2D and Unity3D engines...
i also wonder what is SMDL ;(
if i wrote that right ofc.
btw thnx for your time and advice ;)



#7 Karsten_   Members   -  Reputation: 1654

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 05:51 AM

If you do go for C++ and you intend to develop 2D games, then I highly recommend OpenGL (and a simple image loading system like libPng or DevIL).

Although OpenGL was developed primarily for 3D, it works just as well and if not better than many 2D libraries. It also means that your game will be hardware accelerated which is perfect if you have an action packed world with lots of sprites, effects etc...

It also gives you an easier ride if you do want to port your game to Android, iOS, Linux etc... at a later date.

However, for 3D, OpenGL might be a bit too time consuming to start out with unless you use individual libraries such as a model loader, maths library etc... For this I might suggest Irrlicht.

If you decide to use C# instead (though I see no reason why you should), then OpenTK is a wrapper around OpenGL that gives you the same benefits. This means you don't need to waste time learning a new API.

Mutiny - Open-source C++ Unity re-implementation.
Defile of Eden 2 - FreeBSD and OpenBSD binaries of our latest game.


#8 Agbahlok   Members   -  Reputation: 262

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 06:30 AM

[...] i also wonder what is SMDL ;( [...]

I don't know anything about SMDL unless you meant Southwest Michigan Digital Library or SMDL Query Designer User Interface, but I highly doubt it happy.png
Anyway, let's put the jokes aside. Maybe you meant SDL or SFML ? Both are quiet useful and straightforward multimedia libraries commonly used by beginners and not only to make games/applications. Both of them work natively with C++ ( not sure about SFML though ) and both of them support popular programming languages. Though bare in mind they require some knowledge to be used.

As most of people advise - don't try to learn C++ as your first language unless you have lots of enthusiasm and lot of time that you can spend on learning and practicing. OpenGL which Karsten_ suggested is fairly low-level library same as DirectX and you SHOULD NOT try to approach it without solid fundamentals of programming and some CG terminology knowledge, but it's just my opinion.

Unity could help you to grasp the concept of game development workflow in more of a fun, visual way with high-level programming, which should be quiet easy and make you confident enough to go on lower level. It's fair way to get involved too.

You have quiet few of the ways to start and every one of them is as good as the others, so just pick something you think would be fun. As I said earlier, the first pick barely matters as it will all get much clearer when you'll have more experience.

Edited by Agbahlok, 04 February 2013 - 06:32 AM.


#9 mchedlo213   Members   -  Reputation: 110

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 06:54 AM

thnx karsten,i've heard about OpenGl and DirectX being kinda best i guess xD

yes,that SDL and SFML stuff xD ;)

btw it may soun dumb,but do not i need to learn any prorgamming or some programmign language in order to work with engine,f.e. Unity ?
is C# easier than C++ ?
what about Python and Lua ?



#10 Karsten_   Members   -  Reputation: 1654

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 07:43 AM

To work with Unity you will need to know some sort of .NET language (C#, UnityScript, Boo, etc...).

Personally I feel C# is only percieved to be easier than C++ because it has newer libraries will less legacy stuff in them (afterall C++ has been around many, many years before C#). The C# libraries are also often much more abstracted than C++ libraries because they are usually much fatter bindings over C libraries than C++.

Python is similar to Boo so you might want to look into that when using Unity.

Lua is usually a scripting language above another language. If you are just starting out, I don't think you need this yet.

With Unity the closest to (developing entirely in) C++ you can get is C++/CLR which isn't really recommended and like C++/CX/RT is not C++. (Even though Herb Sutter did a great job improving it over Microsoft Managed C++ (which was naff)).

Mutiny - Open-source C++ Unity re-implementation.
Defile of Eden 2 - FreeBSD and OpenBSD binaries of our latest game.


#11 mchedlo213   Members   -  Reputation: 110

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 09:27 AM

ok,cool,i searched through web again (its quite a good place to look for information ya know xD)
and now i'm understanding what i want to do is quite hard.
i mean the system of developing a game is quite hard,even if its some-indie-casual-one time use game.(here i don't mean games created with Game Make,Construct etc...)
so,please let me know if i'm wrong.
to make a game,i need:
1.get game idea,choose art style,overal design of game,mechanics,etc. = non-technical part which is the most interesting for me i suppose.
2.decide how the game will be made.i chose the hard way,meaning programming,doing all by yourself,and not using different additional programs,like GM and others.
3.here comes the pre-hardest part
depending on game,which isn't my concern at moment,i need some kind of language as well as engine + some other additional progs if needed.
along with overall look of game,these will also give a game a 'face'.
now i searched and i'm probably going to use C#,for which i'm already looking.
first of all,which IDE would be best or at least good for this language?
is it good to use all-around IDE with some specific,C#-oriented compiler for it ?
also is there ANYTHING i'll have to pay for ? i mean if i carry on using this language,will there be any kind of payments needed if f.e. my game is going to be sold,or some PRO versions need to be bought and stuff like that...



#12 Agbahlok   Members   -  Reputation: 262

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 09:44 AM

As I said you may freely use Microsoft Visual C# 2010 Express Edition as well as you might like to try Microsoft Visual Studio Express 2012. I'm not sure about licensing, but I'm quite sure you don't have to pay anything for XNA framework as well if you are developing for Windows. 

That will do for programming, but keep in mind you'll need somebody to make 2d and 3d art as well as most probably some audio for you and I doubt anybody with skills would like to work for free in commercial project (it's hard enough to find good developers who can afford to spend time for open source projects).



#13 mchedlo213   Members   -  Reputation: 110

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 09:47 AM

ok,cool,i downloaded express edition already looking for tutorials.
btw,i know that but i'm studying architecture at university where we also learn some 3d graphic pograms like archicad,some 3ds max,maya,etc...
as well as just how to draw,paint and so on...
audio shouldn't be that hard,i think that's not the thing i should be concerned and concentrated about right now.



#14 DAEddie   Members   -  Reputation: 135

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 02:50 PM



#15 minibutmany   Members   -  Reputation: 1661

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 05:12 PM

About three nights ago, my socks were blown off by a language called processing: http://processing.org/

I learned what I needed to know to render 3D shapes and do camera motion in about in hour. That said I have been programming for a few years, and I like to say that I know what I was doing. I don't think this would be a bad language for anyone to start learning with, although I don't expect it to be the tool for creating the next great MMORPG, it is certainly a great learning experience.

I don't want to throw another choice at you, but I thought it was pretty cool.


Stay gold, Pony Boy.

#16 mchedlo213   Members   -  Reputation: 110

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 11:48 PM

thnx for video ;)

minibutmany maybe i'll check that out as well ;)

 

thnx for responces btw ;)



#17 CC Ricers   Members   -  Reputation: 651

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 04:11 PM

About three nights ago, my socks were blown off by a language called processing: http://processing.org/

I learned what I needed to know to render 3D shapes and do camera motion in about in hour. That said I have been programming for a few years, and I like to say that I know what I was doing. I don't think this would be a bad language for anyone to start learning with, although I don't expect it to be the tool for creating the next great MMORPG, it is certainly a great learning experience.

I don't want to throw another choice at you, but I thought it was pretty cool.

 

It's nice to see someone else here knowing about this language. I was taught this language in an art class, for interactive media displays.  I seldom use it now, but it's a great way to quickly prototype ideas and somewhat forgiving it its interpretation. A nice bonus is that you can export your source to Java (.jar) applets that can run on the web! It's a good way to prove concepts and ideas to other people.


My development blog: Electronic Meteor




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