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### #8ddn3  Members   -  Reputation: 1327

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 10:16 PM

This is an interesting idea, combine this with the voice to text input available on Android and maybe iOS too and you might have yourself a niche. Look into IF (Interacrtive Fiction) too, might be worthwhile to port a few of these to the mobiles and see how well they do. Most of them are released under liberal license so re-distributing them to mobiles should be ok..but you should verify this.

### #9Amadeus H  Members   -  Reputation: 1180

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 01:28 AM

There's a pretty nifty new text-adventure game called CYPHER (video-link). You should definitely check it out.

I think it's viable to reinvent the genre and make it more appealing to todays standards.

### #10ShiftyCake  Members   -  Reputation: 569

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 04:52 AM

text adventure's in the form of making money, are useless.

On the other hand, for a starting off point in programming or just general story design, it's actually one of the better ways to start. There's literally next to nothing illustrations for you to focus on, the rest is just programming and story design. If you want to learn either of those two tings, I suggest using this at a starter point.

What it doesn't help with, though, is game design. In fact, it could be argued that there's next to no thought put into the actual game design besides the basic types of commands. There are some points, but not worth it if you pursue such.

If, at any point, what I post is hard to understand, tell me. I am bad at projecting my thoughts into real words, so I appreciate the knowledge that I need to edit my post.

I am not a professional writer, nor a professional game designer. Please, understand that everything you read is simply an opinion of mind and should not, at any point in time, be taken as a credible answer unless validated by others.

I do take brief bouts of disappearance so don't worry if I either don't reply to you or miss certain things. I am quite a lazy fellow.

### #11fr0st2k  Members   -  Reputation: 133

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 11:56 AM

text adventure's in the form of making money, are useless.

On the other hand, for a starting off point in programming or just general story design, it's actually one of the better ways to start. There's literally next to nothing illustrations for you to focus on, the rest is just programming and story design. If you want to learn either of those two tings, I suggest using this at a starter point.

What it doesn't help with, though, is game design. In fact, it could be argued that there's next to no thought put into the actual game design besides the basic types of commands. There are some points, but not worth it if you pursue such.

It seems as if the original idea evolved into something else through the course of discussion.

Originally, we had a game based completely on game design, with very little graphics to get in the way.

I always called these games, "Browser-based MMORPG's" though im not sure what genre they would be considered now-a-days.

The conversation steered into the discussion of a more general "text-based" rpg from the true days of old, where you lay out a story with choices and reactions....ala goosbumps, "pick your choice, go to that page" (not to discount the numerous other books that used that idea) kinda book.

And thats interesting really...because now in the digital age you can't "retract" your answer like every kid in the world did.  It would be quite challenging to design a game/book that does this without forcing the reader to 're-read' continuously, or jump back to his last decision in an "oh, woops, didn't mean to choose that one."  Essentially, make it so engaging the the reader gets a whole new story each time he reads through without feeling like he's re-reading.

But back to the original idea, the Browser-based MMO...in regards to game design, its quite challenging, and really expandable and fun.

You design resource management between # of units and structures.  Each structure can generate resources based on level (or number of structure).  Units can detract from regen, which means you already have a nice little balancing act going on.

You can only grow you economy by acquiring land, which can be done through 'exploring (diminishing returns)' and 'battle.'  I think land is an important feature of the game because it becomes the limiting factor in your overall power.  By allowing it to be destroyed or stolen, players can't expect to always move forward.  You create a game, not a time waster.

The inherent problem with games like, "Mafia Wars" is that there is no competition, and thus no strategy.  Its just a flat out time waster.  Your decisions don't have any impact.

For those who are familiar with Archmage and games of its genre, it might be interesting to discuss what would need to be improved to gain a larger audience.

It was very niche.  The strategy involved was so in depth that many people just didn't understand what they were doing.

The number one thing is to simplify it.  But how do you simplify a complicated game that relies solely on game design and strategy without making a mind-numbing experience ala Mafia Wars.  That seems to be the biggest challenge im facing.

In my first write up, the main things i did was try and 'trim the fat' from Archmage, in a somewhat purely UX role.  What things were annoying, what items work together, what doesn't need to be there.

For instance,  in Archmage, you had a total of 200 turns, which you accumulated every 5 minutes (based on server).  This evolved over time into the Zynga token idea.  So why not simplify it and use tokens.  This means you can do more with a single token compared to a 'turn.'  Rather than use 20 turns to build 200 Barracks,  you use 1 token to upgrade a barracks from level 1 -> level 2.  (keep in mind, due to core gameplay mechanics, these things are destroyed and rebuilt over the course of the game)

Another example: In Archmage, the structure, "Towns" gave you additional population.  The structure, "Farms" multiplied population to grant you a gold income per turn.  How much added depth was that giving the player?  IMO, not enough to warrant such a complex and confusing game mechanic and management.  So, get rid of it, and add in a single structure that grants gold per turn.

And again, while its possible to simplify, you walk a thin line between making the game have so little strategy it's pointless to play...kind of like Rage of Bahamut ...which I would consider a completely horrible game in terms of game design.

### #12ShiftyCake  Members   -  Reputation: 569

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 05:53 AM

text adventure's in the form of making money, are useless.

On the other hand, for a starting off point in programming or just general story design, it's actually one of the better ways to start. There's literally next to nothing illustrations for you to focus on, the rest is just programming and story design. If you want to learn either of those two tings, I suggest using this at a starter point.

What it doesn't help with, though, is game design. In fact, it could be argued that there's next to no thought put into the actual game design besides the basic types of commands. There are some points, but not worth it if you pursue such.

It seems as if the original idea evolved into something else through the course of discussion.

Originally, we had a game based completely on game design, with very little graphics to get in the way.

I always called these games, "Browser-based MMORPG's" though im not sure what genre they would be considered now-a-days.

The conversation steered into the discussion of a more general "text-based" rpg from the true days of old, where you lay out a story with choices and reactions....ala goosbumps, "pick your choice, go to that page" (not to discount the numerous other books that used that idea) kinda book.

And thats interesting really...because now in the digital age you can't "retract" your answer like every kid in the world did.  It would be quite challenging to design a game/book that does this without forcing the reader to 're-read' continuously, or jump back to his last decision in an "oh, woops, didn't mean to choose that one."  Essentially, make it so engaging the the reader gets a whole new story each time he reads through without feeling like he's re-reading.

But back to the original idea, the Browser-based MMO...in regards to game design, its quite challenging, and really expandable and fun.

You design resource management between # of units and structures.  Each structure can generate resources based on level (or number of structure).  Units can detract from regen, which means you already have a nice little balancing act going on.

You can only grow you economy by acquiring land, which can be done through 'exploring (diminishing returns)' and 'battle.'  I think land is an important feature of the game because it becomes the limiting factor in your overall power.  By allowing it to be destroyed or stolen, players can't expect to always move forward.  You create a game, not a time waster.

The inherent problem with games like, "Mafia Wars" is that there is no competition, and thus no strategy.  Its just a flat out time waster.  Your decisions don't have any impact.

For those who are familiar with Archmage and games of its genre, it might be interesting to discuss what would need to be improved to gain a larger audience.

It was very niche.  The strategy involved was so in depth that many people just didn't understand what they were doing.

The number one thing is to simplify it.  But how do you simplify a complicated game that relies solely on game design and strategy without making a mind-numbing experience ala Mafia Wars.  That seems to be the biggest challenge im facing.

In my first write up, the main things i did was try and 'trim the fat' from Archmage, in a somewhat purely UX role.  What things were annoying, what items work together, what doesn't need to be there.

For instance,  in Archmage, you had a total of 200 turns, which you accumulated every 5 minutes (based on server).  This evolved over time into the Zynga token idea.  So why not simplify it and use tokens.  This means you can do more with a single token compared to a 'turn.'  Rather than use 20 turns to build 200 Barracks,  you use 1 token to upgrade a barracks from level 1 -> level 2.  (keep in mind, due to core gameplay mechanics, these things are destroyed and rebuilt over the course of the game)

Another example: In Archmage, the structure, "Towns" gave you additional population.  The structure, "Farms" multiplied population to grant you a gold income per turn.  How much added depth was that giving the player?  IMO, not enough to warrant such a complex and confusing game mechanic and management.  So, get rid of it, and add in a single structure that grants gold per turn.

And again, while its possible to simplify, you walk a thin line between making the game have so little strategy it's pointless to play...kind of like Rage of Bahamut ...which I would consider a completely horrible game in terms of game design.

what I got form this, is that your having a tough time balancing simplification while maintaining strategy.

Slap yourself.

Don't consider "how to simplify yet maintain the strategy in my game"

rather think like this,

"how to simplify and ADD strategy in my game"

What do I mean? Let's say you have created one object for your game, where you could have created five. Considering this, you should be focusing on making that one object able to implement all the strategy's those five could have.

This means, while you maintain a simple game that's easy to understand and pick up, you've left a huge strategy base to be worked on and mastered.

Consider it next time your simplifying, it's harder to do but it is well worth it.

Don't actually slap yourself though.

If, at any point, what I post is hard to understand, tell me. I am bad at projecting my thoughts into real words, so I appreciate the knowledge that I need to edit my post.

I am not a professional writer, nor a professional game designer. Please, understand that everything you read is simply an opinion of mind and should not, at any point in time, be taken as a credible answer unless validated by others.

I do take brief bouts of disappearance so don't worry if I either don't reply to you or miss certain things. I am quite a lazy fellow.

### #13Legendre  Members   -  Reputation: 966

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 12:07 PM

text adventure's in the form of making money, are useless.

BatMUD, Utopia, Die2Nite etc are still profitable.

I always called these games, "Browser-based MMORPG's" though im not sure what genre they would be considered now-a-days.

PBBGs - Persistant Browser Based Games

For instance, in Archmage, you had a total of 200 turns, which you accumulated every 5 minutes (based on server). This evolved over time into the Zynga token idea. So why not simplify it and use tokens. This means you can do more with a single token compared to a 'turn.' Rather than use 20 turns to build 200 Barracks, you use 1 token to upgrade a barracks from level 1 -> level 2. (keep in mind, due to core gameplay mechanics, these things are destroyed and rebuilt over the course of the game)

Good old days. I used to play a lot of Earth, Utopia and Archmage. I am now currently making a modern innovation of browser based MUD (multi-user dungeon) using HTML5 (node.js and socket.io) because of my love for the good old days.

I think some static graphics are necessary. One of the biggest draw of Archmage for me was the strange "cult-like" images. Also, I think

1) The time/energy system. Getting x turns per hour is very very niche and IMHO needs to be replaced by something better. The fact that the most shiny example of this system is Farmville doesn't bode well for it.

The typical excuse is that this system allows "working adults" to play. I am not sure what kind of "working adults" they are referring to because I am a working adult and I am having a hard time playing because I need to be really dedicated logging in everyday just to catch up with everyone.

2) Excel spreadsheet level of complexity is not going to attract a lot of gamers.

Edited by Legendre, 15 February 2013 - 12:08 PM.

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