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OpenGL and Mac: No D3D11 level functionality?


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#1 Promit   Moderators   -  Reputation: 5909

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 09:04 PM

Okay, can someone just straighten this out for me clearly? Apple publishes a table of GL version and extension support. This table shows that only version 3.2 is supported, and the extensions aren't anything to write home about.

 

Is this a joke?

 

I don't have a recent Mac at hand to test with. Apple systems really can't do ANY 11 level stuff? That doesn't make sense to me. 3.2 is coming up on 4 years old now... I'm not seeing anything to contradict this state of affairs, but I am having trouble wrapping my head around it.


Edited by Promit, 08 February 2013 - 09:05 PM.


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#2 Chris_F   Members   -  Reputation: 1907

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 09:14 PM

That is the case. Apple likes to handle the OpenGL implementation themselves rather than let graphics vendors do it. I believe it's because they want their software implementation and hardware implementation to match exactly, and currently there is no software implementation of OGL 4.x. It's not like Apple really considers OS X to be a gaming platform, so having driver support for high end graphics cards and support for the latest graphics API isn't necessary to them. Besides, there's always Bootcamp or Linux if you really want to get OpenGL 4 on a Mac. happy.png


Edited by Chris_F, 08 February 2013 - 09:16 PM.


#3 L. Spiro   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 11934

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 09:42 PM

Is this a joke?

It is not a joke and is accurate.
Even iOS devices will soon be more advanced and feature-rich than Mac OS X.


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#4 TheChubu   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 3599

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 10:19 PM

This is not a drill, I repeat, this is not a drill.


"I AM ZE EMPRAH OPENGL 3.3 THE CORE, I DEMAND FROM THEE ZE SHADERZ AND MATRIXEZ"

 

My journals: dustArtemis ECS framework and Making a Terrain Generator


#5 Aressera   Members   -  Reputation: 1298

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 01:12 AM

I believe at least some portion of the new functionality is probably available through OpenGL extensions... though I might be wrong about that. But yeah, the state of OpenGL sucks on mac.

 

Edit: oops, I guess not much after seeing that 10.8 OpenGL profile...


Edited by Aressera, 09 February 2013 - 01:15 AM.


#6 zerorepent   Members   -  Reputation: 661

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 02:36 AM

Actually this was one of the greatest dissapointments for me after buying a MBP. Before buying I just looked at the hardware and not into further details about drivers :( 



#7 dougbinks   Members   -  Reputation: 477

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 02:59 AM

Also you should be aware that not all features are implemented in hardware, even if they can be. So my MBA 2011 can do geometry shaders in hardware on Windows Bootcamp, but on OS X they run 20x slower and the CPU utilization goes to max on one core - so they're implemented in software!



#8 Chris_F   Members   -  Reputation: 1907

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 09:19 AM

they run 20x slower and the CPU utilization goes to max on one core - so they're implemented in software!

 

Apparently only single threaded at that. The horror.

 

It's amazing that as bad as the GPU driver situation for Linux is, the state of OpenGL on Linux is still lightyears ahead of what Apple is offering.


Edited by Chris_F, 09 February 2013 - 09:21 AM.


#9 swiftcoder   Senior Moderators   -  Reputation: 9507

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 11:16 AM

It's not like Apple really considers OS X to be a gaming platform, so having driver support for high end graphics cards and support for the latest graphics API isn't necessary to them

How many current-generation games actually use DX11 features?

 

I'm not asking that rhetorically - I honestly don't know. It seems to me that pretty much any title that runs on the XBox 360 or PS3 probably doesn't use/need such features.


Tristam MacDonald - Software Engineer @Amazon - [swiftcoding]


#10 TheChubu   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 3599

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 02:45 PM

It's not like Apple really considers OS X to be a gaming platform, so having driver support for high end graphics cards and support for the latest graphics API isn't necessary to them

How many current-generation games actually use DX11 features?

 

I'm not asking that rhetorically - I honestly don't know. It seems to me that pretty much any title that runs on the XBox 360 or PS3 probably doesn't use/need such features.

Here you go http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_games_with_DirectX_11_support


"I AM ZE EMPRAH OPENGL 3.3 THE CORE, I DEMAND FROM THEE ZE SHADERZ AND MATRIXEZ"

 

My journals: dustArtemis ECS framework and Making a Terrain Generator


#11 phantom   Moderators   -  Reputation: 6663

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 03:40 PM

However the number of games currently supporting the feature set is somewhat unimportant; if the feature set isn't exposed then no one can create games which target it anyway...

#12 swiftcoder   Senior Moderators   -  Reputation: 9507

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 05:35 PM

However the number of games currently supporting the feature set is somewhat unimportant; if the feature set isn't exposed then no one can create games which target it anyway...

Right, I'm not arguing that point. It merely seems a little disingenuous for Chris to claim that Apple doesn't "consider OS X to be a gaming platform", on account of their supported OpenGL version.

 

Half the "DirectX 11 games" on Chubu's list are available for Mac, and most of the rest are available for one of the 360 or the PS3. Lack of DirectX 11 is just something you work around, whatever your target platform...


Tristam MacDonald - Software Engineer @Amazon - [swiftcoding]


#13 Promit   Moderators   -  Reputation: 5909

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 11:12 PM

However the number of games currently supporting the feature set is somewhat unimportant; if the feature set isn't exposed then no one can create games which target it anyway...

Right, I'm not arguing that point. It merely seems a little disingenuous for Chris to claim that Apple doesn't "consider OS X to be a gaming platform", on account of their supported OpenGL version.

 

Half the "DirectX 11 games" on Chubu's list are available for Mac, and most of the rest are available for one of the 360 or the PS3. Lack of DirectX 11 is just something you work around, whatever your target platform...

Surely that doesn't mean we can't expect better of our platforms. I've never been much of a Mac fan, but this is just silly. I suspect that the CAD and 3D design packages don't depend on the new GL features, so Apple's not feeling pressure to add them.



#14 swiftcoder   Senior Moderators   -  Reputation: 9507

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 08:57 AM

As I see it, the only place Apple really makes money on games is iOS, most Apple hardware ships with fairly anaemic integrated GPUs, and unlike PC manufacturers they have a vested interest on maintaining comparable graphics capabilities across their product line...

 

We can expect whatever we want, but I think the unpleasant truth is that until those features are available on iOS, there won't be any impetus to implement them for OS X.


Edited by swiftcoder, 11 February 2013 - 08:58 AM.

Tristam MacDonald - Software Engineer @Amazon - [swiftcoding]





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