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Why would anyone develop for Ouya?


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#21 Hodgman   Moderators   -  Reputation: 28500

Posted 10 February 2013 - 06:12 PM

1920x1080 isn't high resolution? That's 2K, and we have 4K tvs coming just around the corner.

It's a tiny bit shy of 2k. My PC monitor is actually 2k at 2048x1152.

4k displays still cost the same as a car, so they're not likely to be seen alongside an Ouya soon wink.png

Anyway I think way2lazy2care's point was that TV's aren't usually higher resolution than PCs... but a 1080p TV may be higher resolution than a cheap laptop.

 

 

What works on one device is almost guaranteed not to work on another, particularly with shader support. All devices except those with Adreno GPU’s allow arrays of samplers. On Adreno you have to figure out how to work around this. If you didn’t set up a preprocessing system for your scripts so that you can convert things at run-time you are basically screwed.
I don’t know the details since I am not working on Android but there was another problem that held him up for months. “The shader compiles on every device except this one and I don’t know why.”

Honestly that just sounds like working with GL on PC laugh.png

I'm sure that there are other, non GL, examples though -- yeah, each extra device is a (potentially messy) port, but it's a smaller port than going from Windows to your first Android device.


Edited by Hodgman, 10 February 2013 - 06:16 PM.


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#22 TheChubu   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 3952

Posted 10 February 2013 - 06:58 PM

 

 

Yep, it's contrary to the reasons for even owning one. They should be on a 5 year release cycle at least. The high end tablets have been doing the same thing and they are obsolete almost the second you buy them. Especially with the Tegra line. Most Tegra games are just flimsy tech demos to show off the latest hardware.

It is something they can avoid with some planning. If Ouya sells well, I could see nVidia collaborating with Ouya team to keep them on track with their technology (probably they already are collaborating right now).

 

We have yet to see how things will unfold. Maybe it will pass under the radar and be forgotten forever. Maybe it will successful and Samsung and Apple will make their own Galaxy iThings to compete...


"I AM ZE EMPRAH OPENGL 3.3 THE CORE, I DEMAND FROM THEE ZE SHADERZ AND MATRIXEZ"

 

My journals: dustArtemis ECS framework and Making a Terrain Generator


#23 MrDaaark   Members   -  Reputation: 3551

Posted 10 February 2013 - 07:26 PM

It's a tiny bit shy of 2k. My PC monitor is actually 2k at 2048x1152.

Those are the video and film industry's terms. It's off by 80 pixels, but I guess they figure they get them back from the last 80 in 1080. It's considered 2Kx1K rounded off.

IT's also used in the mastering process.

HDTV / Blu = 2K

And theatrical prints are often be mastered at 4K (3840) or 8K (7680).

#24 mdwh   Members   -  Reputation: 838

Posted 11 February 2013 - 08:57 AM

If you understand why people may buy it, surely that answers why people may develop for it? Same argument as for any other platforms really:
* Because you have one and want to play your games on it.
* Because porting from Android is easy (and for commercial, you don't need as many additional sales to cover the cost of porting).
* Because even if sales aren't as good as the other consoles, you might benefit from less competition, or getting in there early (and if it is popular - which is very possible given the low price - all the better, and for some it's worth taking the risk now).
* Because you want to write for consoles, but don't want to deal with the barriers usually associated with console development.
* Because you want to support "open" platforms.

Personally I like PC/laptop gaming and wonder why people bother with consoles, but that's an argument against any console, and evidently many people like consoles. I think one benefit seems to be better controllers that are available and supported as standard.

@Hodgman: Presumably you have to worry about using a controller rather than touchscreen, so although porting may be easy from a code point of view, it's not quite yet another Android phone/tablet.

@MrJoshL: I generally agree with you, but some nitpicks:

"(similar to the early days of smartphones with iOS leading the pack"

Incidentally, for sales IOS never led the smartphone pack (Symbian number one until 2011, Android since then). I wouldn't call 2008 early days at all (that was more like 2000 - by 2005, even bog standard mainstream cheap feature phones did Internet, games and apps), but several other smartphones outsold IOS too (BlackBerry, even Windows Mobile) ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smartphone#Historical_sales_figures ). Although yes, people were happy to develop for IOS despite sales, either because of perceived future growth, or other reasons - so all the more reason that I don't see the reason to criticise people developing for any other new platform (especially one that's really just a slight variant of an already massively popular OS).

"Android is messy."

It's less friendly and with less options to develop for than say Windows desktop, but how does it compare to other consoles like PS3? Also, these issues haven't stopped people developing games for phones and tablets in general. I think using Android is better than trying to create new APIs, as even though they might be easier, it would be extra effort for those who already know or develop for Android. I guess the obvious alternative choice would have been GNU/Linux, but I can see them being tempted by the large pool of Android developers.

I agree about low storage - in general, I'd argue that this is the biggest thing holding back phone/tablet games. They're more than capable of reasonable 3D games, but such high end games typically take ~1GB of storage, so people don't have room to install many, and most games end up with simpler graphics. When competing with consoles, this difference may be more unacceptable to users.

It supports USB though, I wonder if this would support storing applications on an external disk?
http://erebusrpg.sourceforge.net/ - Erebus, Open Source RPG for Windows/Linux/Android
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/mark.harman/conquests.html - Conquests, Open Source Civ-like Game for Windows/Linux

#25 Sik_the_hedgehog   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 1542

Posted 11 February 2013 - 09:29 AM

Honestly that just sounds like working with GL on PC laugh.png

HTML5 and co. are a lot worse =P


Don't pay much attention to "the hedgehog" in my nick, it's just because "Sik" was already taken =/ By the way, Sik is pronounced like seek, not like sick.

#26 Olof Hedman   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 2688

Posted 11 February 2013 - 09:36 AM

In androids defence, cell phone development has always been messy, and android did make it much easier.

Which is evident by the explosion of cell phone app development. (There were several options to develop before, also for small companies and bedroom coders)

It's not an easy problem to support such wildly varying devices, in a market that evolves so much, with so many players involved.
 
The only cell phone that isn't (much) of a mess to develop for is the iphone, and the reason is simple, strict control over hardware and ecosystem.
 

Although yes, people were happy to develop for IOS despite sales, either because of perceived future growth, or other reasons

 
It's not that straight forward to read those numbers. You could reach a lot bigger share of that market with lot less cost developing for iOS. Symbian was a lot more segmented market, and did not have a centralised way to sell your apps.

 

As for developing for the Ouya, It's the usual chicken-and-egg problem for a new platform... I guess only time will tell if using android is enough of a boost to bring over enough interesting apps for people to start buying it in enough volume for people to target it directly. Though, since it's such a different platform, many apps and games will be far from trivial to port. And even though the resolution difference isn't that much, they are still made for a much smaller screen, and might not look very good on a big screen without a bit of work.



#27 ddn3   Members   -  Reputation: 1257

Posted 11 February 2013 - 10:09 PM

If Ouya sells millions then people will develop for it, if it doesn't then don't expect so. Since it's based off the Android platform for some games / apps its just a turn key solution to port it to Ouya ( if they already have an Android app or use a 3rd party cross platform like Unity 3D ). The only question then is it worth going through the Ouya appstore and submission processes and that's a question which boils back down to the user base.

 

I think Ouya has captured some public attention initially but with the coming 4th gen consoles the living room space is too crowded for a set top + console ( blu-ray / game console / entertainment platform etc.. ) + Ouya in the mix even at the 99$ price point. There are 2nd generation "Ouya" like devices coming online already which are even smaller than Ouya  ( about the size of a flash stick ).. then there are TVs which have built in Google TV which can do what Ouya does.. so where does that leave Ouya? Maybe if it had come out 1 year earler before the 4th gen consoles it could have developed a niche a following which might make it a viable platform but as it is, i think its a long shot at best.



#28 Buster2000   Members   -  Reputation: 1581

Posted 13 February 2013 - 06:50 AM

Why would I develop for Ouya?
Because It's just another easy to access marketplace. 
The engine I'm using already supports Win 7, Linux, MacOSX, iOS, Android, BB10 and Playbook.  There are only a couple of tweeks needed to support Ouya.  Really if it doesn't require much work then it's a no brainer.  Every extra marketplace means a different set of potential customers willing to buy apps or click adverts.  This is why a lot of droid developers also release for the Amazon store and other even smaller niche app stores like the B&N Nook store,  Blackberry world, Samsung store etc..

If you want to make money as an indie it's all about getting those extra few customers to play your game.  If you are a droid developer I am never going to play your current game (I own an iPhone) but if you port it to Ouya then you may have an extra sale because at the Ouyas price point it'd be rude not to buy one.   Even if they bring out one every year It's still cheap (same price as two AAA xbox games) and is an interesting piece of hardware to hack.



#29 tychon   Members   -  Reputation: 652

Posted 13 February 2013 - 10:25 AM

I bought into the Ouya because I don't like where mainstream consoles are heading with multiplayer functionality. If I wanted to be by myself, staring into a bright screen in a dark room and yelling at strangers over the Internet, I'd play a game on my computer. I miss being able to yell at friends who are sitting on the couch next to me.






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