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Programmers and aspergers


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#21 swiftcoder   Senior Moderators   -  Reputation: 9672

Posted 05 March 2013 - 01:41 PM

While I agree with you in principle, you don't need a medical degree to diagnose a broken leg if the bone is sticking out.

When it comes to developmental disorders (and also, for similar reasons, mental illness), I'm not sure that analogy holds.

 

Mental disorders are tend to be more of a spectrum than a binary affair (unlike a bone, which is generally broken or not), and even mental health professionals may have difficulty in diagnosing them (i.e. antisocial personality disorder, which actively attempts to avoid diagnosis)...


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#22 Tournicoti   Prime Members   -  Reputation: 682

Posted 05 March 2013 - 02:15 PM

Personally, to elaborate the debate, I would say : I like potatoes

 

Just to say, who cares ?


Edited by Tournicoti, 05 March 2013 - 02:17 PM.


#23 SymLinked   Members   -  Reputation: 827

Posted 05 March 2013 - 02:22 PM

Just to say, who cares ?

 

You obviously care enough to reply. All I asked about was the study, because I was curious if it existed or not. I'm so sorry if that offended you dear sir! rolleyes.gif



#24 Tournicoti   Prime Members   -  Reputation: 682

Posted 05 March 2013 - 02:33 PM

I  wasn't offended, I didn't say you asked the wrong question, I just said ... who cares ? biggrin.png  Being Asperger isn't public business. This is personal. Even private.

 

Yes it is nice to propose a debate about Asperger !

Asperger shouldn't (and don't want to) say "I'm Asperger" to everybody they meet. People should just suppose it's possible they may be in front of a Asperger.

It's a problem of lack of information about Asperger syndrome. People don't know it exists. This is the problem


Edited by Tournicoti, 05 March 2013 - 03:14 PM.


#25 TheChubu   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 3771

Posted 05 March 2013 - 03:55 PM

I'm offended! *jumps on the offended bandwagon of not-happiness*


"I AM ZE EMPRAH OPENGL 3.3 THE CORE, I DEMAND FROM THEE ZE SHADERZ AND MATRIXEZ"

 

My journals: dustArtemis ECS framework and Making a Terrain Generator


#26 Tournicoti   Prime Members   -  Reputation: 682

Posted 05 March 2013 - 04:08 PM

I'm offended! *jumps on the offended bandwagon of not-happiness*

Well it means  I 'm veeery bad in English

I gave you my answer, as I am concerned so don't be offended

So, sorry to have misunderstood ! tongue.png

Bye


Edited by Tournicoti, 06 March 2013 - 01:21 AM.


#27 L. Spiro   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 12452

Posted 05 March 2013 - 05:56 PM

People don't know it exists. This is the problem

No, not really.
There is no reason to know it exists or acknowledge it in any way for most of the general public. Even for those who have it it is often better not to know about it. Of the 4 people I have “met” who claim to have it, all 4 were online-only (3 from this site).
2 of them used it as an excuse for their situations in life (which is a completely normal situation for younger folk) and will continue to do so for the remainder of their lives rather than just overcoming all the difficulties they face as people with Aspergers do who are unaware they have it.
1 of them was the total opposite side of the nut-case spectrum and used it in some kind of superiority trip, pretending it makes his mind more like that of a computer’s and he is some hotshot who “gets” things more easily than us mere mortals (you can read his reply in this thread, but don’t do so while drinking milk unless you have a rag handy).
That makes 1 out of 4 of them even remotely normal.

And not because they have Aspergers, but because they have been told they have Aspergers.

 

As a member of the general public I feel no obligation to know about this.  I frankly don’t care, because I judge people one way and one way only: How they make me judge them with their actions, words, ideas, intentions, etc.  The normal way all normal people judge others.

I don’t care about anyone’s diagnosis and I am not going to waste my time learning every mental condition out there.

 

Well it means  I 'm veeery bad in English angry.png
I gave you my answer, as I am concerned so don't be offended

もういい。十分なナンセンス。
He was making a joke. Your English is fine.

 

 

L. Spiro


It is amazing how often people try to be unique, and yet they are always trying to make others be like them. - L. Spiro 2011
I spent most of my life learning the courage it takes to go out and get what I want. Now that I have it, I am not sure exactly what it is that I want. - L. Spiro 2013
I went to my local Subway once to find some guy yelling at the staff. When someone finally came to take my order and asked, “May I help you?”, I replied, “Yeah, I’ll have one asshole to go.”
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#28 TheChubu   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 3771

Posted 05 March 2013 - 06:17 PM

1 of them was the total opposite side of the nut-case spectrum and used it in some kind of superiority trip, pretending it makes his mind more like that of a computer’s and he is some hotshot who “gets” things more easily than us mere mortals (you can read his reply in this thread, but don’t do so while drinking milk unless you have a rag handy).

Hahahahahaha, too sad I can't +1 on the Lounge :D

 


I'm offended! *jumps on the offended bandwagon of not-happiness*

Well it means  I 'm veeery bad in English angry.png

I gave you my answer, as I am concerned so don't be offended

Don't worry, I was joking around! Sometimes I can't restrain myself and I have to say something silly. 

 

Whoa, I can't backspace some things because the quotes disappear for some reason.


"I AM ZE EMPRAH OPENGL 3.3 THE CORE, I DEMAND FROM THEE ZE SHADERZ AND MATRIXEZ"

 

My journals: dustArtemis ECS framework and Making a Terrain Generator


#29 ranakor   Members   -  Reputation: 439

Posted 05 March 2013 - 07:53 PM

While I agree with you in principle, you don't need a medical degree to diagnose a broken leg if the bone is sticking out.

When it comes to developmental disorders (and also, for similar reasons, mental illness), I'm not sure that analogy holds.

 

Mental disorders are tend to be more of a spectrum than a binary affair (unlike a bone, which is generally broken or not), and even mental health professionals may have difficulty in diagnosing them (i.e. antisocial personality disorder, which actively attempts to avoid diagnosis)...

Exactly, and they're not quite as simple as "oh i haz seen this buncha symtoms and i have sum!". Sure anyone can diagnose a broken bone, not everyone knows wether it's just broken or if blood is streaming inside causing necrosis, anyone can diagnose that you're shy / a little associal etc, not everyone can put all of them together, interrogate you on your past to separate between physical and past experience as the cause, and make a correct diagnosis on psychiatric issues.

 

For all of those who are in the "i've been told i have asperger", i'd be surprised if even a single one of you has it among those who weren't told straight from a doctor or at least medical staff, it's not a cold, it's not something you see on every corner of the street, your anxiety fears asociality and other things that may lead you to self diagnose as who knows what are most likely the cause of a much more common sickness in the general population, it's called being human and is perfectly normal unless it's strongly impairing your life (blocking you from work / social life / causing suicidal thoughts etc), in the former case, get over it, in the later case, seek help as in most case you can get major help from a psychiatrist and get back to a normal life. For those who are genuinely autistic i perfectly understand this is very different, but those are usually found our early, by their parents and through the medical path, not as soon as they hit a roadblock in adulthood and get told by a forum or a friend.



#30 Hodgman   Moderators   -  Reputation: 27930

Posted 05 March 2013 - 09:03 PM

As above, comparing an actual physical injury to a syndrome is apples and oranges.

 

A syndrome by itself doesn't exist, it's just a category name given to a condition where several signs and symptoms are observed together. Only someone who is properly trained in the exact definition of this category and the recognition of these signs/symptoms is able to confirm whether a particular patient fits into that category or not. And then this diagnosis is of most importance to other professionals who are properly trained in understanding what it means...


Edited by Hodgman, 05 March 2013 - 09:14 PM.


#31 Tournicoti   Prime Members   -  Reputation: 682

Posted 05 March 2013 - 10:29 PM

@L. Spiro : Thanks, now I know this is to have Asperger sleep.png .

In french, it's a rare case in which wee can say both (avoir/être Asperger). I use "être" (everybody concerned naturally does in fact) because I don't feel this is something I have, this is me. (Je suis Asperger or Je suis autiste Asperger or casually Je suis Aspie, not J'ai Asperger or J'ai le syndrome d'Asperger, except in medical context)


Yes, people don't know it exists,  this is the problem . In my country at least, this is the problem. Ask somenone in the street what is Asperger syndrome, they will very probably don't know. Ask someone in the street what is autism, they will very probably answer it's a disease in which you absolutely can't communicate except by knocking your head against a wall. Or you can give the 1000 first decimals of Pi. They don't know this is a spectrum

People should know AS exists, yes. To help Aspies integration in society. ( Since, my country is a democracy. Maybe not yours ? ).Because it's not just the label "mental disorder", too easy.
But people don't have to knwow who has it. This is private, as it is a medical condition.
I talk about adults.

It's like you want to refuse AS exists, .... what makes you incomfortable with this subject ? Because about the myths and legends that are spread on Aspies ? Those why so much people want to be aspies ? And why some others are jealous ? What a confusion...

 

(NB What makes me incomfortable, for instance, these are topics where people talk about genius, in fact meaning very intelligent people. The point of

geniality is not intelligence. All musicians know that. What a confusion...)
A funny indice : what is the power of the genie in the story of Aladdin. Why this name, finally ? rolleyes.gif


 


        もういい。十分なナンセンス。


Merci belle calligraphie, mais ça n'a aucun sens pour moi. En anglais, ça donne ... ?
 

        In all the countries where I have worked I have never met a single
        person ever anywhere in-person who I would even remotely consider being
        Aspergers.  And I am living in Japan, where the chances for having
        Aspergers in the IT field is highest.  None.  Not in school, not ever
        anywhere in my life.



Nobody knows (except clairvoyant psychiatrists, of course. And Harry Potter. Because they have the faculty to play the doctor at sight. Fabulous isn't ?)
You would be surprised ! smile.png  Especially by aspergirls ! They are fantastic actresses ! A majority of them even don't know they actually are Aspies, so much their mimicry is sophisticated dry.png  ( I'm so jealous ....wacko.png )

@TheChubu : Glad I didn't offend you, I just gave my point of view, as I have been myself diagnosed in a specialized service , without flourish smile.png

 

EDIT : Wow ..... just 25 modifications  huh.png (maybe best ever since GameDev's creation ph34r.png , I just try to be as accurate as possible)


Edited by Tournicoti, 11 March 2013 - 04:14 AM.


#32 Khatharr   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 2872

Posted 06 March 2013 - 12:33 AM

Whoa, I can't backspace some things because the quotes disappear for some reason.

 

This offends me! How dare you criticize our wonderful forum bugs!


void hurrrrrrrr() {__asm sub [ebp+4],5;}

There are ten kinds of people in this world: those who understand binary and those who don't.

#33 TheChubu   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 3771

Posted 06 March 2013 - 06:41 PM

Bug? It's a feature. I'm offends me that you consider it a bug.

@TheChubu : Glad I didn't offend you, I just gave my point of view, as I have been myself diagnosed in a specialized service , without flourish smile.png

No problem.


"I AM ZE EMPRAH OPENGL 3.3 THE CORE, I DEMAND FROM THEE ZE SHADERZ AND MATRIXEZ"

 

My journals: dustArtemis ECS framework and Making a Terrain Generator


#34 Shaquil   Members   -  Reputation: 815

Posted 06 March 2013 - 07:57 PM

While it's true that some people use vague mental disorders to explain their social awkwardness or apathy toward life, I think we should cut those people a little slack. I don't know if you've realized this yet, but it's really hard to be a functioning member of society and prefer to be alone at the same time. I can't speak for other countries, but in America, especially for people around my age, it feels like your self worth must be measured 60% in whether or not you have a boyfriend/girlfriend right now, 30% in how many friends you have, and 10% other. When your values differ, and you always say "No, I've got some reading to do" when your friends ask you to go to the movies with them, or you leave parties early because you prefer being alone, people start to think that maybe something's wrong with you. If you don't like to party, you're weird. Everyone likes to party. If you'd rather do some solitary activity than have a conversation with someone, you're weird. Everyone wants to talk to a friend.

 

Since people (in America, at least) are so close to unanimous in holding the opinion that you must be as sociable as possible at all times, people who hold opposing values can be verbally slaughtered with no remorse. Everyone around you is going to tell you that you need to change immediately. If it's not your girlfriend, it's your best friend. If it's not your best friend, it's your mother or father or sister or brother. Because you prefer being alone, something's wrong with you. So, sometimes you start to believe it. You aren't looking for an excuse when you start thinking things like "Oh, maybe I'm some kind of autistic." You're just trying to understand yourself and why you're so different from everyone else. When the concept of "Well, this is just the way I am; I'm not weird, I'm just different" is taken away because everyone around you makes that seem impossible, it's easy to start thinking you've got a mental problem.

 

Yes, some people aren't even that socially awkward--they're just annoying assholes with no decorum, and they want an excuse. But sometimes it's not a lack of social skills, or an abundance of asshole-ness. Sometimes, you just don't consider mass social activity to be the most important part of your life, and you want to know why, and you end up thinking maybe you've got problems.



#35 IADaveMark   Moderators   -  Reputation: 2330

Posted 09 March 2013 - 10:13 AM

While I agree with you in principle, you don't need a medical degree to diagnose a broken leg if the bone is sticking out.

When it comes to developmental disorders (and also, for similar reasons, mental illness), I'm not sure that analogy holds.

 

Mental disorders are tend to be more of a spectrum than a binary affair (unlike a bone, which is generally broken or not), and even mental health professionals may have difficulty in diagnosing them (i.e. antisocial personality disorder, which actively attempts to avoid diagnosis)...

 

My point was that, at some point on the continuum, it becomes really obvious that something is amiss. (e.g. "the bone sticking out") The whole "you're not a doctor so STFU" argument is ridiculous at that point.

 

And by the way, I could probably quote large sections of the DSM IV off the top of my head... I DO know a little about these things. ;-)


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#36 Sock5   Members   -  Reputation: 162

Posted 21 March 2013 - 07:49 PM

BPD + Low Latent Inhibition here, which is frequent in people within the autistic spectrum(I'm not autistic, but I can say a thing or two about LLI).Actually it's almost impossible to have only one isolated mental disorder.If something is even slightly off in your brain, a whole lot of issues would manifest.But anyway, software engineering seems like the perfect job for me.Working around too many people in a flashy/noisy enviroment feels like the sounds and visuals are drilling theirselves into my brain and I get tired very quickly and after I get drained too much I become irritated and outbursts of rage follow.Maybe the reason most "different" people pick technical jobs like programming is, because they were never socially accepted in school and instead were inclined to learning math/science/whatever and reading books.Maybe you guys could share if you match this.What were your early years like?


Edited by Sock5, 21 March 2013 - 07:51 PM.

>removed<


#37 szecs   Members   -  Reputation: 2099

Posted 21 March 2013 - 11:18 PM

I was socially accepted. I was shy and I wasn't popular though. I was even okay with girls (I was attractive for girls, I always blew it with them because of my shyness).

 

So I was a perfectly average kid, I was just interested in science and creating stuff, and I also always enjoyed being alone too. After some time to this day, I enjoy being alone more, so apart from job, pretty much the only person I'm socializing with is my girlfriend and on some forums sometimes.

I enjoy my lonely and engaging hobbies and being with my girlfriend much more than "hanging out".

 

That's pretty much it.


Edited by szecs, 21 March 2013 - 11:18 PM.


#38 Ectara   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 2827

Posted 22 March 2013 - 12:31 AM

I have a funny anecdote, while we're on the topic. Not too long ago, my father tried to convince me that I have Aspergers, due to my extreme antisocial tendencies, to the point of despising everyone that doesn't earn my respect, reluctance to be in others' company, and proficiency in my field. I know for sure that I have many a disorder; depression is crippling some days, and maintaining a tight schedule is how I keep moving forwards. But I doubt highly that I have Aspergers.


The point of this anecdote is that some people claim illness so that they can get special treatment in one way or another, some people are quick to misdiagnose people that don't behave like they do, and some people are openly accepting to any amateur diagnosis that relieves them of responsibility. This goes for both the people diagnosed, and those around them. A lot of parents are willing to believe that their children have these disorders both because it absolves them of any fault in the outcome ("He has a disorder, he was going to turn out this way, no matter what!"), and it relieves them of their duty ("No, I won't tell him to stop biting people in the store. He has a disorder, you know."). With this in mind, a lot of people gain the mentality that a disorder governs their life because others push it on them.


Edited by Ectara, 22 March 2013 - 12:31 AM.





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