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Existing 3D Game Engine for Gameplay Programming


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#21 royibernthal   Members   -  Reputation: 154

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 09:32 AM

Okay, I have learned alot from that reply.

 

So is it safe to say a Gameplay Programmer is mainly a scripter?

 

You might be right about being able to make good games without ever needing to write a single line of C++, but since it's a requirement to get a job, why not kill two birds with one stone?

 

I imagine you replied to my post before I edited it, quoting a question you didn't answer:

 

Would you define Unreal Engine 4's new "Hot Reload" feature (C++) as scripting? It matches your definition.

http://www.unrealengine.com/unreal_engine_4/



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#22 MrDaaark   Members   -  Reputation: 3539

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 10:28 AM

I don't care for the Unreal Engine as I don't like the way it handles things back when i used to use it. So I can't answer your question. C++ programs take time to compile. I can see them letting you compile game behavior into a C++ dll, and maybe recompiling and swapping that out. It will not be instantaneous, and not something you'd use on per frame basis. (For reasons listed in other posts, I wouldn't want to write

If 500 people post looking for a gameplay programmer, you will 500 different answers from them. Programming requirements are often specific to each individual project.

C++ is not a requirement to get a job. It's a common requirement to get a job at certain companies making games, however. This is a different issue than choosing a game engine based on C++ or scripting language use. That's why I gave you 2 answers to 2 questions. If you want to make a game in your own time, make a game.

-Most people making software use C#, Java, or domain specific languages (html5, perl, ruby, adobe flash, fortran, cobol). Software development is a large industry, and C++ is not king everywhere.

-Gaming is moving to mobile platforms, where objective C, Java, and scripted engines are king right now. All the games on XBLIG are in C#. C++ can be used on Android, but it's a pain in the ass and you have to jump through hoops. It's highly discouraged by the Android team, and is more for portability reasons than for speed.

-Self employed people can make software using whatever they like. You can use any combination of programmer and scripting languages. Lots of popular shareware software that used to turn up on the CD racks at retail stores was written in Visual Basic.

-The language that any software is written in is not an important. It's a meaningless implementation detail. It has no effect on the usability or productivity of your software. It's all about personality, presentation, and quality of the content presented. If the software is meant to do a specific job, then it's about how well it does that job, and how well the interface eases the process.

#23 cgx11   Members   -  Reputation: 130

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 11:06 AM

Royibernthal,

 

May be interesting for you to check this out

 

http://forums.epicgames.com/threads/906137-Unrealscript-in-Unreal-Engine-4



#24 royibernthal   Members   -  Reputation: 154

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 12:28 PM

cgx11

 

Those are 16 tiring pages of contradicting assumptions and maybe even a few conspiracy theories. I didn't see any solid answer to my question, sorry if I missed it.

 

MrDaaark

 

Quoting from previous post:

"So is it safe to say a Gameplay Programmer is mainly a scripter?"

 

C++ is a king everywhere that matters, to me at least. Every big games company that I respect and can see myself working at in the future uses it.

 

Games are becoming widely popular on mobile platforms and can definitely make good money there, but it's not as if it's an alternative to PC, PS, Xbox...

I never cared for casual/mini games, I always go for the enormous projects.

 

That is right and I sincerely hope I'll some day have the luck and skill to become a self employed programmer who can play in the big guys arena.

Until that day comes I'd like to keep my cards and be able to work as an employee in companies I respect and one day even compete with. For that I do need to pass the job requirements.


Edited by royibernthal, 11 March 2013 - 12:30 PM.


#25 Tasche   Members   -  Reputation: 218

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 07:10 PM

Just on the subject of Triple A asking for C++:

Not 100% sure about this, but that does not necessarily mean you will be coding in C++, its just the fact that if you can handle C++ really well, you will be able to adapt to other languages rather easily, because most modern languages abstract the nitty gritty that C++ does (at the cost of performance).

Also, you will most certainly NOT start your career at those big companies, they ask for 5 years of work experience for their junior staff. And you can be sure that in those 5 years, you need to churn out kick ass stuff, because they really get to choose, and they have a reputation to fulfill (and the budget to back up being picky).

What i'm saying is, along the way you will most certainly have to do several different languages, having a big portfolio and being able to work with whatever you are given, and get the maximum out of that.

 

So this what MrDaaark said in his last sentence is a good working/learning paradigm in my opinion.



#26 royibernthal   Members   -  Reputation: 154

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 03:46 AM

Obviously I won't be able to start my career at those big companies. But I want my path to always lead to that and not forget my goal.

 

I'm already a self employed Adobe Flash ActionScript 3.0 games developer working with an ex-Ubisoft artist.

If the companies I wish to work at ask for C++, why not make kick ass stuff in a C++ environment instead of separating C++ and kickass stuff into two different tasks?



#27 royibernthal   Members   -  Reputation: 154

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 05:17 AM

cgx11

 

It seems like UnrealScript is being completely removed in Unreal Engine 4, given the source is legit:

http://gameindustry.about.com/od/trends/a/Unreal-Engine-4-First-Look.htm



#28 cgx11   Members   -  Reputation: 130

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 07:52 AM

Royibernthal, 

 

"However, UnrealScript is being removed."

 

I guess that isn't so much of a shock. 

 

"Unreal Kismet is being evolved to a far more powerful system. Epic claims that you will be able to create a mod entirely using the updated visual scripting system. The next generation of Kismet now allows for scripting of object behaviors, as well as the previous functionality for levels. It includes a system for visual debugging, as well as a template system referred to as blueprint, for placing of objects with pre-defined behaviors in the world.

For those wishing to customize further, programmers can click on a property and edit the C++ code directly, with no rebuild time required."

 

Start with the C++ coding and learn about Kismet. Good luck!

 

Hope your question is answered.



#29 royibernthal   Members   -  Reputation: 154

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 09:46 AM

Yeah it is. Thanks again for the help.



#30 Lightness1024   Members   -  Reputation: 694

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Posted 16 March 2013 - 09:38 AM

Most game companies have their own engine, only newer studios (created 2 years ago max) use ready-to-use engines, and most of them will go for unity because of license fees. cryengine is a risk because too expensive, only unreal would be a good idea to learn because the pricing is progressive according to sales. also its the best engine... of all time. just that. (the v4 that is.) and it will teach you the best technologies and practice, in terms of tooling integration etc... probably the best example anyway for a company with its own engine to aim at.

However, its not a question of resume.

Seriously, if I were to see the resume of a guy who brags with a list of "know engines" or "engines worked with" I would find that so lame that I would put the paper aside and see the next candidate.

If you want to say that you have experience with an engine, say it naturally in your cover letter.

But what is important rather, is having a general 3D knowledge. read the research papers ! when you know who is Kajiya, Nishita, Blinn, Kaplanyan, Rammamorthi, Torrance, Daschbacher, Hanranhan, Jensen, Schlick, Debevec, Perlin, Nayar, Lefebvre, Crassin, Neyret... and what is their work and all of their ramifications, then and only then you have conquered the knowledge that is necessary to continue this industry.

I insist that it is crucial to read on all of that, and nvidia research, ati research and stuffs like GPU gems and cie. not knowing an engine that will give you practice on the technology at a frame T in its history.

Also, games are not only a matter of graphics, but also specific game mechanics and tooling and various other production pipeline related stuff, and embracing the whole "corporate engine" is a plus because you can work more efficiently, in a huge codebase, thinking about human factors, e.g. not enforcing your own coding rules on everybody is an exemple of how to ease team work. Using diplomacy and politics to help the company move forward, when you want to make your project move from svn to git you're going to need those, I tell you...

I don't know how many hours I could continue on with that, but to sum it up all, I wanted to give you another perspective because you seem so hot headed and a bit stubborn on technology matters. C++ is great but my personal opinion is that game companies have already passed a turning point where C++ is becoming too expensive and a lot of studios died last year (more than 50) because of lack of clients of promising projects says the press. I believe its rather a problem of being too expensive because of C++. And especially the way it is used for game dev. it is enough to read the paper about EASTL to have a glimpse ! they code everything themselves for god knows what obscure reason. Many are predicting the death of AAA games against casual games. The CEO of crytek said himself that the upcoming generation of consoles is probably the last.

They are all responsible and they can only blame themselves, its not all because of C++, C++ is an awsome language, but the way game companies use it has a big role in this global decline.

I hope I gave you some perspective.



#31 EddieV223   Members   -  Reputation: 1385

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Posted 16 March 2013 - 03:10 PM

If I were the OP and I didn't want to use low level directx or openGL, then I would use either Irrlicht, or Ogre3d to do my drawing/window manager, and input ( ogre3d comes with an input lib, irrlicht handles this too ).

 

Irrlicht is easier to use and get started, Ogre3D is more tweakable.

 

However I would rather use low level openGL and libs like GLFW, GLEW, and GLM.


If this post or signature was helpful and/or constructive please give rep.

 

// C++ Video tutorials

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wo60USYV9Ik

 

// Easy to learn 2D Game Library c++

SFML2.1 Download http://www.sfml-dev.org/download.php

SFML2.1 Tutorials http://www.sfml-dev.org/tutorials/2.1/

 

// SFML 2 book

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1849696845/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=1849696845&linkCode=as2&tag=gamer2creator-20

 


#32 JordV   Members   -  Reputation: 119

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 11:53 AM

If you're still checking out new engines I suggest Platinum Arts Sandbox. it's open source and written in c++, so once you're a c++ wizard you can rewrite the code, change physics and make it into the best game engine in the world (for your needs). the scripting langue is a full fledged programming language called Cubescript. It's not the best language for beginners due to the lack of documentation but if youre into c++ i bet you can pick it up just fine. Looking at the c++ source code gives you a great idea of the programming that goes into a 3d engine. The licence is very generous as well. I hope this helped. 



#33 EmmetCooper   Members   -  Reputation: 195

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 03:04 AM

Learning a new framework for programming like C#(Unity) and Unrealscript(UE3) is definitely not a good way to start. UE3 and UE4 does allow you to code c++ directly for your needs but it requires you to purchase the full license which is very pricey for us indie developers. If you really want to stick to c++ coding, i advise you use Cryengine. CryEngine and UE3 is definitely the best choice among the other engines said here. But if you want to try UE3, you would find it easy to learn most especially Unrealscript is based on common C++ syntax. However, you could write your own engine, but it requires you alot of effort and time to finish it. It'll take you years to even finalize a beta version of your engine that is stable enough to create a simple game. I chose UE3 because it's really easy to learn. If you are a C++ programmer, you can just start on class structures in UnrealScript and go start programmming.



#34 EmmetCooper   Members   -  Reputation: 195

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 03:24 AM

I have a question, is there going to be a free version of UE4?






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