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HP vs a Limb and organ system for a text based game combat damage


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#1 game of thought   Members   -  Reputation: 212

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Posted 21 March 2013 - 03:21 PM

Hello, i wanted your opinion on this topic for which you feel is better, as i have designed a system for the Limb and organ damage on a piece of paper and i wanted to know what you thought.

 

The basic living entity in the game has an array of body parts(specified as an array of limb objects on the creation of instance of the entity, so one argument containing an array of pre-declared organs) and organs. The organs are a base class with different behaviors dependent on a string implemented on the organ's own instance. For example, when heart is declared to the  organs array it is implemented with the string indicating it's influence on the circulatory system. Brain has influence on Nervous etc.(I have no formal medical education so excuse me for anything here that isn't true). These also link to limbs via comparison of the two objects(in the damage function the argument in the if statements say if a certain limb was hit and a certain hit condition was met it would do x to the organ and subsequently the body). For example, when the Thorax is hit there is a small percentage the Heart will gain a percentage of the impetus of the attack and thus cause certain drops on the enemy/friendly entity stats, such as the decrease in global circulation of blood.

 

The limbs also have separate stats, these being Circulatory points, nervous points and structure points. Circulatory points represent how much blood is in the limb, for example an arm may have 1 litre of blood. As these drop, so does the amount of oxygen getting to the muscles(oxygen isn't a separate variable) and therefore reducing the effectiveness of the limb as well as some other features such as overall decrease in circulatory points if the torso gets hit, for example.

 

Nervous damage is the influence of the nervous system in a certain area. For example, while the brain is the main organ of the head, the fact it connects to the spinal column guarantees a small amount of nervous points due to the sheer amount of it making it very easy to damage and disable. Some status effects of this will cause disorientation and vomiting(perhaps i may make this a danger to the player, with animals such as trolls or something)as well as organ failure.

 

Finally, there is structural damage, which represents the bone structure and exoskeleton if applicable to the entity. When this is damaged it may shatter bones(which could be represented  by the organs class) and therefore damage the effectiveness of the limb.

 

On certain designated limbs(specified in the starting arguments for the limb class(a boolean)) reaching 0 on any of these results in death.

 

Currently, i have created a very basic simulation showing damage to limbs from gun shot wounds(only limbs thus far) and seems to be quite brutal for high calibre rounds as expected(The damage is worked out via the calibre of the bullet * a random variable between 100 and the muzzle velocity of the round) and quite weak for others. I will include it if you want it but it is currently on a separate computer. 

 

What do you think of my idea? How do you think i can improve it?

 

Thank you for your time



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#2 Nypyren   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 4310

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Posted 21 March 2013 - 04:07 PM

Make sure the system actually interests the player. Fallout 3 had limb damage for example, but it was kind of worthless.

Against the player: You either suffer the penalties and die rapidly, mash your stimpack hotkey a few times and it totally fixes your limb, or reload your game if you're out of stims. It wasn't interesting in the least.

Against an enemy: You can cripple a guy, but it doesn't matter much if your next shot will kill him anyway. Also totally uninteresting.



Perhaps someone who's played Dead Space can chime in about how well that system worked.

#3 Khaiy   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 1342

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Posted 21 March 2013 - 04:31 PM

I'm thinking along simillar lines as Nypyren. The granularity of the system has to match what characters can do, and still have meaningful differences between options. How much difference is there between screwing up nerves in an arm and disabling it versus just obliterating the arm? How precise are the choices I can make in terms of trying for either effect? Is there ever a point to crippling an enemy instead of killing it? These are all questions meant to focus the role of your system in your game, not to directly address anything about the system itself.

In a text based game in particular, I would question how well the player can target specific limbs or organs and compare that to the ease and intuitive-ness of the battle/targetting system, but I think there are ways it could work very nicely.

It may not mesh with your plan, but I'm imagining something like skills a character can use with different odds of different effects. So a character who is really accurate with a gun can do something like cripple an enemy via one particular skill chosen instead of the normal "attack" command, or something like that. As long as the game has mechanics where there are more significant than "dead" and "not dead", it could be really cool.

#4 klefebz   Members   -  Reputation: 244

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Posted 21 March 2013 - 05:50 PM

I immediately thought of Dwarf Fortress. The point of this in that game was for realism, and after a battle (or accident) wounded survivors would go to the hospital (if you have one) and be treated by the doctors. Whether they recovered or not depended on the wounds and the skill of the doctors. It is interesting in that game despite the fact that you probably have over 100 dwarves.


I don't play MMOs because I would become addicted

#5 Rits   Members   -  Reputation: 259

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 08:26 PM

a good presentation can change the players' thoughts from "terribly complicated design" to "uber interesting". but of course its very difficult cuz most players dont have the patience to go through a lot of tutorial / tips.

 

it sounds very chinese medicine knowledge btw, is that where your heading to? 



#6 Lailokken   Members   -  Reputation: 356

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 12:06 PM

In a text based game in particular, I would question how well the player can target specific limbs or organs and compare that to the ease and intuitive-ness of the battle/targetting system, but I think there are ways it could work very nicely.

 

I think that Khaiy makes a good point here. It depends on how you implement your combat system.

 

I've played a MUD that had one of the best combat systems I've ever used. You could target every body part.. right eye.. left eye.. neck.. right leg.. etc. In that game though.. there were only piercing, slicing, and crushing weapons.. no firearms. Each class of weapon was a specific skill.. e.g. Light-edged weapon skill, Two-handed edged weapons skill, Large blunt skill, etc. Each weapon also had inherent attributes.. piercing/slicing/blunt damage.. as well as material type.. stone/wood/metal/etc. So one cutlass may be far superior to another cutlass, even though they are both 'medium-edged' weapons.

 

In addition, each player had stats, such as strength, agility, reflex, stamina.. etc. These stats, together with their level of weapon skill with the weapon they were wielding.. combined with the attributes of the weapon itself.. determined how proficient they would be with that particular weapon. All that was then compared against those of the npc/pc they were facing in battle, to determine outcome.

 

I think your system, getting as detailed as to factor in nerve damage, sounds great. The entire combat system needs to be in sync though. Defense needs to be relative to offense. e.g. What does it matter if a player can lose 'drops' of blood, when with the first attack they suffer, the top half of their body is removed?

 

I'd like to hear more about defense. What abilities are in place to help players avoid damage? Are there armors.. shields.. etc? Do all players have the same amount of health points? You say the damage from the high caliber rounds is quite brutal.. what are the defensive capabilities of a player to avoid taking so much damage? As long as the combat system is balanced, offense/defense, I think the level of detail you're working on is fantastic. 


-- A man shows who he is, by what he does, with what he has.


#7 WildField   Members   -  Reputation: 296

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 02:08 PM

What do you think of my idea? How do you think i can improve it?

 

Simplify it. The system has already become too complicated for its own good. If you are really interested about improving it, then make a prototype which can be played and tested.


Edited by WildField, 24 March 2013 - 02:08 PM.


#8 Osidlus   Members   -  Reputation: 700

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 10:47 AM

Thanks for bringing the topic ;-). The wound equation reminds me Taylor Knock Out Factor, nice for a self estimated stuff. Btw: isn't it a hit point system with separated "resources" and interactions between them now? As for the vital points and maybe pressure points- they mean something in a meelee combat or martial arts world but in a marksman world- huh maybe for some nasty animation:-). Another interesting thing was spotted here. That there is no acceptable gameplay for a wounded player, it is pure disadvantage and hence produces save/load gameplay. I belive that there should be some advantages for a wounded character or even content. For example he or she can defend fortifications with NPC soldiers side by side. Character can have a boost in a social plane like ale for free, or ala "heart of the old bitter man thawned seeing the poor cripeled soldier" and that way character can have exclusive teacher or merchant whatever. Or how about extra experience? Isnt experience pay for a risk? And isnt risk higher for crippled character? Ofcourse it must be done clever way to avoid this to be a tool of grinding. Sorry if formating is weird, the explorer doesnt perform OK on these pages.

#9 Krohm   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 3119

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 10:27 AM

What do you think of my idea? How do you think i can improve it?

I like your model. But the numbers are the key. I'm following this topic.




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