Jump to content

  • Log In with Google      Sign In   
  • Create Account


Goodbye Start button?


Old topic!
Guest, the last post of this topic is over 60 days old and at this point you may not reply in this topic. If you wish to continue this conversation start a new topic.

  • You cannot reply to this topic
69 replies to this topic

#1 Xanather   Members   -  Reputation: 703

Posted 24 March 2013 - 05:29 AM

I heard somewhere that windows 9/blue wont have the start button either. I personally see this as a disappointment, the start screen is designed for touch screens not desktops.

Thoughts? Do you think this is a disappointment?

 

I don't want to sound stubborn, but I think I'm going to stay with Win7 for as long as a possibly can until new games and applications clease to function unless Microsoft makes non-awkward desktop OS before that happens.



Sponsor:

#2 Hodgman   Moderators   -  Reputation: 29383

Posted 24 March 2013 - 05:36 AM

I don't want to sound stubborn, but I think I'm going to stay with Win7 for as long as a possibly can until new games and applications clease to function unless Microsoft makes non-awkward desktop OS before that happens.

They seem to have a policy of alternating between making an annoying OS and a follow-up more stable version of it, so I'm down with this plan. According to the pattern, Win9 has to be decent laugh.png

95 -> 98 -> Me -> XP -> Vista -> 7 -> 8 ...



#3 Madhed   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 2780

Posted 24 March 2013 - 05:39 AM

I don't really care anymore. I have decided to stay with Win7 myself and have set up my laptop with elementary os to get comfortable with linux. Now that steam is available for linux and more games get ported it can only gain traction.



#4 blewisjr   Members   -  Reputation: 620

Posted 24 March 2013 - 05:57 AM

I am currently running windows 8.  I have no start button but I find I do not really miss it.  This is probably because I have heavily used linux with the new gnome desktop environment.  After a while you just get into the groove of hitting the windows key type the application name and hit enter.  It is very fast if you know the name of the application you want.  My most used applications are as shortcuts right on the desktop so I can access them quicker.  Over all it is a very solid OS with very few issues.  The only time I see that metro start screen is when I need the odd ball application and when the computer boots up.  As for Linux I really wish I could make it my primary OS I have tried several times but so many things I do run better on windows or only on windows.  One such case is AVR micro controllers.  The IDE with all the awesome memory view features is built on Visual Studio 10 issolated shell.  On linux you are stuck with avr-gcc/gdb/avrdude.  Not that this is bad but I don't think avr-gdb gives you the ability to see the values the registers are holding.  PIC has full linux support but I am using both chips at the moment.  Then there is the new MSOffice 2013 totally amazing this time around.  Really well done set of software.  Then there is my Oscilloscope that has software for windows/mac only.



#5 slicer4ever   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 3474

Posted 24 March 2013 - 06:04 AM

I am currently running windows 8.  I have no start button but I find I do not really miss it.  This is probably because I have heavily used linux with the new gnome desktop environment.  After a while you just get into the groove of hitting the windows key type the application name and hit enter.  It is very fast if you know the name of the application you want.  My most used applications are as shortcuts right on the desktop so I can access them quicker.  Over all it is a very solid OS with very few issues.  The only time I see that metro start screen is when I need the odd ball application and when the computer boots up.  As for Linux I really wish I could make it my primary OS I have tried several times but so many things I do run better on windows or only on windows.

 

QFE, if you got used to just typing the application name in windows 7, then you really don't need a classic start menu anymore.  I don't have any desktop icons anymore just because I know what i'm looking for.  I never have to go through the control panel because i can just type in "Network" and get to the network and sharing center, i can type "folders" and modify my folders settings, "Devices" to get to devices and printers, etc.  Windows 8 just improves this process imo.


Check out https://www.facebook.com/LiquidGames for some great games made by me on the Playstation Mobile market.

#6 Tasaq   Members   -  Reputation: 1213

Posted 24 March 2013 - 06:28 AM

I don't have any desktop icons anymore just because I know what i'm looking for. I never have to go through the control panel because i can just type in "Network" and get to the network and sharing center, i can type "folders" and modify my folders settings, "Devices" to get to devices and printers, etc. Windows 8 just improves this process imo.

 

Agree 100%. I am using windows 8 and I am not going back to windows 7. When I want something I just type it instead of seraching the start button tree. I find it more convient :)



#7 Hodgman   Moderators   -  Reputation: 29383

Posted 24 March 2013 - 07:15 AM

QFE, if you got used to just typing the application name in windows 7, then you really don't need a classic start menu anymore. 

Yeah I hated it at first when 7/vista redesigned the start menu... but now the only way I use it is by typing in that search box.

I also hardly bother organising my file system in windows explorer any more thanks to Everything... cool.png


Edited by Hodgman, 24 March 2013 - 07:16 AM.


#8 Mussi   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 1757

Posted 24 March 2013 - 07:25 AM

I've been pressing the windows key and typing in the program name since windows 7. Now that I use windows 8, not much has changed. In windows 7 I had a few programs listed in the initial start menu that I frequently used that I'd click on. In windows 8 I have a set of tiles, which I quite frankly like more than my old start menu.



#9 Amr0   Members   -  Reputation: 1085

Posted 24 March 2013 - 07:51 AM

I'm not up to speed on this, but from a developer's perspective, wasn't the main concern the fact that Microsoft was moving towards closing the OS, and that people will no longer be able to release applications unless Microsoft approves of those applications?



#10 Xanather   Members   -  Reputation: 703

Posted 24 March 2013 - 08:04 AM

I'm not up to speed on this, but from a developer's perspective, wasn't the main concern the fact that Microsoft was moving towards closing the OS, and that people will no longer be able to release applications unless Microsoft approves of those applications?

I think if Microsoft were to release a full closed OS, they'd basically be killing themselves, for the desktop at least.

 

 

I don't want to sound stubborn, but I think I'm going to stay with Win7 for as long as a possibly can until new games and applications clease to function unless Microsoft makes non-awkward desktop OS before that happens.

They seem to have a policy of alternating between making an annoying OS and a follow-up more stable version of it, so I'm down with this plan. According to the pattern, Win9 has to be decent laugh.png

95 -> 98 -> Me -> XP -> Vista -> 7 -> 8 ...

Yes but I feel that this time is going to be different, just a feeling. I did read they were going to "improve" the start screen some how... we'll have to wait and find out, hopefully it takes desktop into consideration this time and does not completely fill the whole screen unnecessarily.


Edited by Xanather, 24 March 2013 - 08:07 AM.


#11 Sik_the_hedgehog   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 1601

Posted 24 March 2013 - 08:06 AM

I'm not up to speed on this, but from a developer's perspective, wasn't the main concern the fact that Microsoft was moving towards closing the OS, and that people will no longer be able to release applications unless Microsoft approves of those applications?

Yes, but also remember a lot of developers think that a walled garden is the only way to go. If that wasn't the case iOS would have flopped miserably, yet there are lots of people who swear for that system.

 

Also I should feel like an idiot for thinking this thread would have been about the Start button in controllers XD


Don't pay much attention to "the hedgehog" in my nick, it's just because "Sik" was already taken =/ By the way, Sik is pronounced like seek, not like sick.

#12 Madhed   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 2780

Posted 24 March 2013 - 08:08 AM

I'm not up to speed on this, but from a developer's perspective, wasn't the main concern the fact that Microsoft was moving towards closing the OS, and that people will no longer be able to release applications unless Microsoft approves of those applications?

 

This is only true for metro applications which can only be installed from microsofts windows store. Yeah, but still pretty bad for a desktop system.



#13 slicer4ever   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 3474

Posted 24 March 2013 - 08:52 AM

I'm not up to speed on this, but from a developer's perspective, wasn't the main concern the fact that Microsoft was moving towards closing the OS, and that people will no longer be able to release applications unless Microsoft approves of those applications?

Yes, but also remember a lot of developers think that a walled garden is the only way to go. If that wasn't the case iOS would have flopped miserably, yet there are lots of people who swear for that system.

your comparing apples and oranges.  Not only are your comparing desktop platforms to mobile platforms(which you could partially consider to be like a console) . Apple also came out of the gate with the walled system, and everyone accepted it.  Microsoft has always kept the system open for any application to run on your desktop, to suddenly create a wall is just asking everyone to ignore the os, and stay on their older more open OS's.

 

windows 8 right now is in that borderland, of allowing walled applications, but still keeping it open for desktop applications, if windows 9 decides to flip it over to being 100% walled, i can't imagine the os being widely adopted.


Edited by slicer4ever, 24 March 2013 - 08:54 AM.

Check out https://www.facebook.com/LiquidGames for some great games made by me on the Playstation Mobile market.

#14 TheKLF99   Members   -  Reputation: 106

Posted 24 March 2013 - 10:42 AM

Whilst it is true that Windows 8 doesn't have a start button, it certainly doesn't stop you making one with a third party app.  I have had Windows 8 on since before Christmas, at first when I installed it I liked the speed, it was much faster than my previous OS which had been the dreaded Windows Vista 64 bit (although actually Vista I never found as bad as some people - possibly because I had a decent level of hardware to cope with it).

 

The only thing I didn't like about 8 was the absence of the start button and the awkward way of closing anything that has opened up in that Metro interface, the lack of a close button seems really annoying when your sat there looking at a document in reader and you try and get out of the damn thing looking around everywhere for the close button.

 

However luckily StarDock Start8 software came to the rescue and for a couple of quid I could have my faithful start menu right back where I wanted it, and change it so that when it booted up it would show me the desktop along with the start menu instead of plunging me into the Metro interface.

 

Now for me Windows 8 seems fine, it runs super fast and I've got a standard desktop as well as the metro interface.

 

I also found that I recently purchased a second monitor, and by having two monitors it is really useful as you can have the metro interface taking over one, whilst having the desktop on the other.  It does make things a lot more easier at that point.



#15 TheKLF99   Members   -  Reputation: 106

Posted 24 March 2013 - 11:43 AM

Yes, but also remember a lot of developers think that a walled garden is the only way to go. If that wasn't the case iOS would have flopped miserably, yet there are lots of people who swear for that system.

 

If that is the case then why has Android been so successful - there is no walled garden there, Android is far more open to everything, has a large number of apps and is available on a lot more different manufacturers devices than iOS giving the end user free choice as to what they want their device to do, and I don't see Android losing any ground soon.  Actually the biggest flop was years ago when 3 launched the Motorola A920 which was an amazing smartphone, totally ahead of it's time (I had one and it was really nice!), but it was 3's walled garden that caused major problems as they locked down everything on the phone - the built in GPS, web browsers, bluetooth,  symbian app store, etc and so it turned what could have been such an amazing smartphone into a useless brick.  3's main concern at the time was for viruses to infiltrate their phone network, but eventually they had to give in to public demand and offered to remove the brick wall from peoples phones so they could use the additional technology.  The only reason why iOS is so popular is not because of it's walled garden, it's simply because of the Apple name, it is like in the 80's people had Sony Walkman's, and it was the in thing to have a Walkman with Sony on it, even if you had the latest top of the range Panasonic cassette player which probably had more features on than the Sony Walkman.



#16 irreversible   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 1302

Posted 24 March 2013 - 11:53 AM

I still can't understand the hoopla around the Win 8 Metro start screen. To me it's simply a fullscreen start menu that has the advantages that

 

a) it can fit many more default programs/shortcuts

b) it can display more search results

c) it will allow you to allot desktop space to "start menu" space by simply defining where your shortcuts lie

 

Can anyone really say that they've ever used the desktop while using the start menu?

 

In short, it's a matter of perspective: the entire Metro screen is the start menu. The only thing I'm not sold on is the mouse swipe to display the helper bar to show it. Pressing Win key on the keyboard is okay, but the mouse version is a bit slowpoke. IMO people's fixation on the orb seems near ridiculous. Furthermore, any argument that Win 8 is a lesser OS than Win 7 is just plain abstract rumbling.

 

Win+X alone is worth the upgrade for me. It's be come as second nature to me as Win 7's drag-to-edge-of-screen-to-split-or-maximize.

 

In short - on the surface it's the same OS. It just uses a different start menu system. If anyone can fault Win 8's internal workings, then please go at it. I haven't found anything more wrong with it than with 7.



#17 samoth   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 4683

Posted 24 March 2013 - 12:04 PM

 When I want something I just type it instead of seraching the start button tree. I find it more convient smile.png


That's a 35 year step backwards in user interface, though.



#18 noatom   Members   -  Reputation: 782

Posted 24 March 2013 - 12:19 PM

Agree with the person above me.So we created an UI just to go back to writing commands again?!

 

Windows 9 will be the same for pc users,you can already see that they are desperate to gain some control,mostly because no one wants a windows phone,and not too many people want their tablets.

 

In my opinion their only strong point are the games.If devs started creating games for some other os,Microsoft would be done.



#19 slicer4ever   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 3474

Posted 24 March 2013 - 12:31 PM

Agree with the person above me.So we created an UI just to go back to writing commands again?!

 

Windows 9 will be the same for pc users,you can already see that they are desperate to gain some control,mostly because no one wants a windows phone,and not too many people want their tablets.

 

In my opinion their only strong point are the games.If devs started creating games for some other os,Microsoft would be done.

 

who said anything about commands?, like hell do i wanna go back to the days where i had to remember entering the correct flags to pass to a program.  that doesn't mean it's not incredibly useful for quickly searching your file system to get to applications.

 

As well, if we look at metro on it's own, i honestly think it's leagues better then the old start menu anyway.  it's pretty much a well designed second desktop imo, it doesn't waste much excess space, and gets straight to the point for what you want to do.  I do however agree that launching metro apps as full screen programs defeats the purpose of multi-tasking for the most part, but most of the time i'm just launching desktop apps anyway.


Check out https://www.facebook.com/LiquidGames for some great games made by me on the Playstation Mobile market.

#20 mhagain   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 7812

Posted 24 March 2013 - 01:12 PM

Agree with the person above me.So we created an UI just to go back to writing commands again?!

 

Windows 9 will be the same for pc users,you can already see that they are desperate to gain some control,mostly because no one wants a windows phone,and not too many people want their tablets.

 

In my opinion their only strong point are the games.If devs started creating games for some other os,Microsoft would be done.

 

Never underestimate Microsoft in the business desktop/server market.  That is their main source of revenue and it isn't going anywhere for a long time.  Plus this market tends to be so slow moving that it's going to be many years before it even has to deal with the lack of a Start button, by which time Microsoft will have solved any remaining issues around it (or - at worst - most users will have become so accustomed to it that it's not going to be a problem anymore).  Microsoft aren't going to be "done" for quite a while yet, despite wishful thinking from certain quarters (who seem to have a particularly poor understanding of exactly the reasons why they're successful).  They may lose the plot from time to time, but they have this habit of coming back stronger than before.


It appears that the gentleman thought C++ was extremely difficult and he was overjoyed that the machine was absorbing it; he understood that good C++ is difficult but the best C++ is well-nigh unintelligible.





Old topic!
Guest, the last post of this topic is over 60 days old and at this point you may not reply in this topic. If you wish to continue this conversation start a new topic.



PARTNERS