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List of games based on complexity


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#1 vanangamudi   Members   -  Reputation: 123

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 09:46 AM

can any body list out the order in which one shud attempt to learn game programming by practice?

 for example,

           the simplest game is Tic-Tac-Toe

           to more complex Pin ball,

           most complex games like Age-of-empires...

 

 

list ny game you know in the order of complexity. please read other answers and post reply accordingly

thanx in advance

 



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#2 BornToCode   Members   -  Reputation: 902

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 01:45 PM

Any game can be complex. It all depends on the features and functionality you want to implement in the game.



#3 stillLearning()   Members   -  Reputation: 212

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 04:55 PM

In many  cases you can figure out complexity of a game by yourself. Look at what features a game, and what prerequisites these features have. IE: Pong, two paddles and a ball. All of these move, basic physics is needed. Collision-detection is also needed. There's no way to rate the complexity in any sequence, it'd be arbitrary.


If you don't understand the stuff written here, please sharpen your C++ skills.


#4 jbadams   Senior Staff   -  Reputation: 17235

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 03:06 AM

One of our members recently published an article into our shiny new article system entitled "your first step to game development starts here", and it includes a list of basic games for beginners to attempt.

 

 

Personally I normally recommend Pong as an excellent first game, and from there it's a reasonably easy step to continue on to a Breakout game with more complex features.



#5 vanangamudi   Members   -  Reputation: 123

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 04:34 AM

One of our members recently published an article into our shiny new article system entitled "your first step to game development starts here", and it includes a list of basic games for beginners to attempt.

 

 

Personally I normally recommend Pong as an excellent first game, and from there it's a reasonably easy step to continue on to a Breakout game with more complex features.

u got my question.



#6 Lightness1024   Members   -  Reputation: 694

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 08:43 AM

definitely, age of empire will not be position 3. it is unreachable for one person alone in one life time.

others have it almost right, the first game may be pong. but the very first program may rather be just some random visual demo that displays line and circles, images, animations of random graphics... well its just the way I did when I was young. my first game came only as my tenth or fifteenth program, if you count all the little experiences.

i'm not going to develop further because gamedev has whole articles to help in that regard :) good luck (honestly)

ps: one last word. "never give up" Donald trump said it, I'm saying it too, a computer is stubborn like hell, so you got to be stubborn even more to win.



#7 TheChubu   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 3705

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 09:53 AM

How do you measure complexity?


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#8 Yrjö P.   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 1412

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 10:30 AM

definitely, age of empire will not be position 3. it is unreachable for one person alone in one life time.

Absolutely not unreachable. A skilled and dedicated programmer can pull that off, and depending on how much existing engine and/or library tech is leveraged, it might not even take that long. Especially if you skip the AI and make the clone multiplayer only; I have a feeling that AI would be the biggest time sink.

#9 vanangamudi   Members   -  Reputation: 123

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 10:34 AM

How do you measure complexity?

number and size of subsystems and depth of their interaction...



#10 Norman Barrows   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 1845

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 11:29 AM

How do you measure complexity?

 

 

man-hours, lines of code, number of meshes, textures, sprites, audio files required. level maps required, other content required, research required, etc, etc.

 

since there are a number of activities from number of disciplines involved, "minimum man hours required to achieve desired result" is the common unit of measure, whether your talking code, art, music, or whatever.


Norm Barrows

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#11 Norman Barrows   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 1845

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 11:36 AM

Stroppy said:

 

>>  I have a feeling that AI would be the biggest time sink.

 

3d models. all those building and units and animations. AOE AI could be done in a couple days with a state/expert/A* system. maybe an additional 1/2 week to 1 week to tweak. Probably kick ass over other systems, too.


Norm Barrows

Rockland Software Productions

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rocklandsoftware.net

 


#12 CC Ricers   Members   -  Reputation: 623

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 12:37 PM

The biggest time sink depends on how experienced you are and your motivation to the area of development. If you start with AI and gameplay code first and work on that a lot to make a functional game, your game could still need some improvement in the graphics and menus. It depends on what parts you decide to work on first.


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#13 Yrjö P.   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 1412

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 05:51 PM

Stroppy said: 
>>  I have a feeling that AI would be the biggest time sink.[/size]
 
3d models. all those building and units and animations. AOE AI could be done in a couple days with a state/expert/A* system. maybe an additional 1/2 week to 1 week to tweak. Probably kick ass over other systems, too.[/size]

What 3D models? AoE is a 2D game. And you don't produce actual assets when the objective is to learn game programming (see first post).

I'm a little bit sceptical of you building an AoE-comparable AI in a week given that the original AoE team spent more than a year working on theirs. For AoE III, they spent something like 5+ man-years on AI.

#14 Paradigm Shifter   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 5131

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 07:51 PM

Dude, AI is easy...

 

while(!won) win();


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#15 slicer4ever   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 3205

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 09:24 PM

Dude, AI is easy...
 
while(!won) win();

can i get that game engine please.=-)

vanangamudi, your list is a bit flawed, or at least quite incomplete. Tic-Tac-Toe->PinBall->RTS are each pretty massive steps. the article jbadams links to provides a very complete list of games to work your way through.


How do you measure complexity?

man-hours, lines of code, number of meshes, textures, sprites, audio files required. level maps required,


man hours, lines of code, mesh, textures, etc are all subject to skill and implementation. a skilled programmer is likely to produce the same game an less skilled programmer is able to produce in much shorter time, and most likely with more efficient code. This holds true for pretty much all trades.

Edited by slicer4ever, 26 March 2013 - 09:25 PM.

Check out https://www.facebook.com/LiquidGames for some great games made by me on the Playstation Mobile market.

#16 Norman Barrows   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 1845

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 10:02 AM

What 3D models? AoE is a 2D game. And you don't produce actual assets when the objective is to learn game programming (see first post).

 

2d sprites from 3d renders.

 

missed that part about the overall objective. better go re-read the post!


Norm Barrows

Rockland Software Productions

"Building PC games since 1988"

 

rocklandsoftware.net

 


#17 Norman Barrows   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 1845

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 10:13 AM

wow, where to start?

 

i started with a text mode dungeons and dragons clone.

 

but these days?    

 

probably start with 2d vs 3d. get your feet wet.

 

something simple, but a bit more than tic-tac-toe.

 

a top down or side view arcade game most likely.

 

pinball has that whole gotta model gravity and realistic collisions thing going on.

 

what kind of games do you like?  that's important to keep you motivated.


Norm Barrows

Rockland Software Productions

"Building PC games since 1988"

 

rocklandsoftware.net

 


#18 Lightness1024   Members   -  Reputation: 694

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 09:29 AM

What 3D models? AoE is a 2D game. And you don't produce actual assets when the objective is to learn game programming (see first post).

 

2d sprites from 3d renders.

 

missed that part about the overall objective. better go re-read the post!

Yes his post made me think that I missed something too. But, nowhere is it mentioned that "the art part is forgotten". a game is still a game, a needs arts. this takes time, a lot of it. And fine-tuning of the unit prices, the building prices, the map's resources, the units speeds, attack strength, defense strength, the speed of workers to extract wood, food, gold, rock, the technology improvements... the list goes on. To a person alone, I state again that it is impossible.


Edited by Lightness1024, 29 March 2013 - 09:30 AM.


#19 EarthBanana   Members   -  Reputation: 805

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 10:46 AM

First you need the games like tic tac toe to get your basic programming skills in the language of choice..

 

From their move on to 2d graphics I would say use some open source lib to make things a bit simpler - get used to the game pipeline - updating and drawing

Here you could make a simple top down arcade.. try to get smooth movements and nice looking animations.. Focus less on original gameplay and more on the production value of what you are doing.

 

After that I would say your ready to tackle using opengl or direct3D for graphics and whatever you want for sound - start getting in to the more technical

details - keepit very very simple.. but go 3d here if you are planning on getting in to it. Get a model to draw on the screen. Get some movement with input on the keyboard. Maybe don't even try for a game here - rather try to get very comfortable with using new technology - understanding shaders and matrix transforms. Work your way up to textured meshes , then meshes with full on materials (normal maps and specular maps and such). This is probably one of the most important steps if your planning on going 3d - which you probably should even if your making 2d games.

 

Once you get comortable with either openGL or Direct3d or I guess some other api of choice that is capable of 3d graphics - once you know how to use shaders and how to do transforms and how to efficiently structure your data for feeding to the graphics API of choice.. then its time to step it up to a real game focused production.

 

This is where the fun really starts (though the learning process is fun too) - this is where you might try and get a small team together to help out - people who are in the same boat as you. It would be great if you can get artists to help you out - make sure that if you work with someone at this point they know close to the same as you because if not it can create some stressful situations..

 

Or if your going alone then get designing. Always take steps of functionality before planning to far ahead - If your working alone I would suggest keeping the scope of the game reasonable - especially if you don't have someone for artwork. Maybe you could make some kind of simple fps with 4 levels and a boss. If you make it to this point - you'll know what you want to make.

 

Keep with it though!


Edited by EarthBanana, 29 March 2013 - 10:49 AM.


#20 warnexus   Prime Members   -  Reputation: 1382

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 06:41 PM

If you can do Tic-Tac-Toe, then you are on your way to learn Java graphics.

 

An arcade shooter clone is more manageable if you have know the internals of Java graphics (ie Canvas class, how to draw images on the screen) some basic logic to make the enemies move independently or your character at your will, Rectangle class for collision detection). This is what I have been doing for 3 months by myself.

 

You must write good code to maintain the codebase of a game. The more features you add, the number of classes increase so good coding style is a must.

 

If you have enough experience with your programming language, I will say the arcade shooter clone will test how much you know about your language. I will say it is a good challenge. It will teach you programming skills no book can possibly do. 

 

Before the arcade shooter clone, I knew an idea of what a Canvas was and how collision detection works. But when you start implementing it is even more cool!

 

I would say you can grab art online for educational purpose so you can speed up the game development process. Solving how to implement certain features in a game is more than enough on your plate. Keep the game simple enough that you can make the game happen. Challenge yourself when you have done implementing the simple features.

 

On a side note: Start using inheritance and polymorphism if you have not already done so. Inheritance and polymorphism is powerful! ArrayLists are awesome because they keep track of its size for you. Use them.


Edited by warnexus, 29 March 2013 - 10:49 PM.





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