Jump to content

  • Log In with Google      Sign In   
  • Create Account


Logistics in a Strategy Game


Old topic!
Guest, the last post of this topic is over 60 days old and at this point you may not reply in this topic. If you wish to continue this conversation start a new topic.

  • You cannot reply to this topic
10 replies to this topic

#1 samgj   Members   -  Reputation: 347

Like
0Likes
Like

Posted 25 March 2013 - 04:48 PM

What is there was a strategy game with logistics? The armies would need food or ammo or whatever else to stay alive or be able to fight. Supply trains would get their materials from a town controlled by their player and move out to their army. Other armies could attempt to cut the train off to weaken the other. Would this be fun or tedious?


MLNM-ONE: open source video game engine

Unincorporated Media's Website: my company's website


Sponsor:

#2 klefebz   Members   -  Reputation: 178

Like
1Likes
Like

Posted 25 March 2013 - 05:39 PM

Space empires had supplies and ammo for the ships, but you would either give them resupplying parts or send a dedicated supply ship with them (full of it). There wasn't that much send the supplies to the front.

The thing is, you have your base, you send your army, and then send supply units (trains, trucks, blimps) back and forth, but what is the speed of those compared to your army? A possibility would be to put an imaginary line conecting you army (or it advanced post) to your main base. The line is visible to you and can be discovered by enemies. If thay possition troops in a way you cannot send a line from your base to your army (work on the line mechanics) then the supply lines have been severed and the soldiers get a penalty (hunger, low ammo, guns breaking and no spare parts).


I don't play MMOs because I would become addicted

#3 Stormynature   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 2545

Like
2Likes
Like

Posted 25 March 2013 - 08:52 PM

Would this be fun or tedious?

 

That would be entirely dependant on how you implement it.

 

Developing a game that premised itself in part on destroying supply lines would mean developing economies for the armies i.e. food, drink, ammunition, parts, medical supplies, new recruits/reinforcements etc. so part of your game will be focussed on the development and supply of those materials to your armies just as the enemies themselves would need to develop them. Dependant on the scale you do this it might come down to armies being supplied by a number of different towns/cities and differing types of goods in the supply trains for example a small town might supply you with new recruits and food whereas a city might provide you with new recruits and ammunition etc etc.

 

In sabotaging enemy supply lines you would also need to give consideration as to how you will maintain your own strike force with supplies whilst they are in enemy territory which might lead to such areas as brigandage, pillaging of enemy supply trains, sacking of small towns. It may even lead to such things as razing and salting the earth to deny future supplies to the enemy army. Conversely this would mean defending your own zones of control from similar tactics made by your enemies.

 

There are many other issues and ideas that could be suggested to expand upon your initial post, but I would want to see more development of your idea above from you. As a game it could be quite fun but as I said at the start it truly depends on how you implement this game with regard design, gameplay etc.

 

Hope this helps :)



#4 Norman Barrows   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 1636

Like
0Likes
Like

Posted 26 March 2013 - 10:42 AM

What is there was a strategy game with logistics? The armies would need food or ammo or whatever else to stay alive or be able to fight. Supply trains would get their materials from a town controlled by their player and move out to their army. Other armies could attempt to cut the train off to weaken the other. Would this be fun or tedious?

 

logistics rules have been a part of Avalon Hill war games for almost 50 years now. They are usually part of the optional rules. The basic implementation is that a unit must be able to trace a line of supply that does not pass through an enemy zone of control, back to a friendly city. as i recall, a unit that was cut off could fight but not move for one or two turns, and was then eliminated.

 

having to build, load, and unload trucks could become tedious. remember the ratio of combat to support troops is somewhere between 3 and 10 to 1 depending on the type of troops. so you'd spend time herding 3 supply lorries for every tank.

 

but logistics is a MAJOR part of real warfare. in fact, many military types might argue its the most important. nothing happens without logistics.


Norm Barrows

Rockland Software Productions

"Building PC games since 1988"

 

Help me out!     Check out Caveman and tell me what you think!     Caveman v3.0 demo beta download page:

 

https://sites.google.com/site/rocklandsoftware/home/cmbeta1

 

 


#5 Acharis   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 2351

Like
1Likes
Like

Posted 26 March 2013 - 10:49 AM

Try Unity of Command, the best strategy about logistics (actually, it's extremelly simplistic, just one variable to represent supply, yet it's totally about cutting supply lines).

 

For more traditional supply model try People's Tactics (there are more of these I guess, but that one is free).

 

 

The funny thing is, the PT logistics model, while more complex, is far less important/fun than the totally simplistic one from UoC. But I guess, that's what you get from designing the game from the core to be about logistics...


Europe1300.eu - Historical Realistic Medieval Sim (BETA)


#6 Norman Barrows   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 1636

Like
0Likes
Like

Posted 26 March 2013 - 10:55 AM

as to fun or tedious:

 

a simple implementation like AH's made the game more fun.

 

a flawed logistics system like in Alien Nations can kill a game. in that title, you had to manage a fleet of trucks for logistical purposes, and the publisher apparently turned off the truck path finding AI in a rush to market.

 

the trick will be to implement it so you get the benefits of real logistics modeling in your simulation, without causing any extra effort on the part of the player. this was the beauty of AH's implemetation.  the player didn't have to do any extra work to keep a unit in supply. all units were assumed to be in supply until cutoff, and the nitpick micromanage details of the trucks and cargo was not modeled.

 

if the player wants to micro manage his offensive, including logistics, then herding lorries might be fun for that player.

 

if the player just wants to roll across Europe with his shock troop Panzers, then herding trucks and horse carts of fuel and ammo may be tedious to that player. Realistic, but tedious.

 

But the importance of the "baggage train" can not be over emphasized. Napoleon in Russia, light rail in world war one, battle of the bulge, etc. I believe it may even get a mention in "Art of War".


Norm Barrows

Rockland Software Productions

"Building PC games since 1988"

 

Help me out!     Check out Caveman and tell me what you think!     Caveman v3.0 demo beta download page:

 

https://sites.google.com/site/rocklandsoftware/home/cmbeta1

 

 


#7 HilljackCoder   Members   -  Reputation: 145

Like
0Likes
Like

Posted 04 April 2013 - 06:50 PM

What is there was a strategy game with logistics? The armies would need food or ammo or whatever else to stay alive or be able to fight. Supply trains would get their materials from a town controlled by their player and move out to their army. Other armies could attempt to cut the train off to weaken the other. Would this be fun or tedious?

 

The single best (to my knowledge) implementation of logistics in a strategy game was in Gary Grigby's War in the Pacific.  While land supply was a little abstracted, supplies were otherwise loaded onto ships which could be attacked by land based air units, subs, etc.  In fact, WITP has been called a logistic simulator with a combat engine tacked on, but that models the actual war pretty well, too. 

 

The big problem I see with having an excessive emphasis on logistics is that it can add a lot of cruft without really enriching the player's experience.  It can also be a technical challenge to make the AI decide to load up a truck and send it out to the troops.  In practice, it seems like the most common solution is just to allow units to track back a supply line to a friendly base or area.  Hearts of Iron modifies this by the infrastructure the supply line has to travel through -- bad roads = crappy supply. 

 

OTOH, it might be interesting to see a game modeled around trying to supply an army and let the fighting be relatively abstract.  Given the problems that the Allies had with supplying their troops after Overlord, it would be an interesting challenge to simulate the Red Ball Express.  Maybe call the game Beans, Bandages, and Bullets...start off with a small tutorial like providing supply to the U.S. Army during the Louisiana Manuevers and work through scenarios like trying to supply the 6th Army during Stalingrad and so on.  You would have to plan ahead and request supplies based on what the war situation was looking like, too -- a defensive battle would mean lots of ammo and whatnot, while an offensive battle would need fuel and soldiers. 



#8 AltarofScience   Members   -  Reputation: 897

Like
0Likes
Like

Posted 04 April 2013 - 08:30 PM

Considering that plenty of people like city builders and other economy games I don't see why logistics would be a huge problem. Raiding caravans was plenty fun in Majesty and other games has similar stuff.



#9 MagnusC   Members   -  Reputation: 103

Like
0Likes
Like

Posted 05 April 2013 - 12:26 AM

I have often started to design games in this category, although as some of the previous replies say, is it really fun? My personal opinion is that it should be doable. You really need to find fun aspects of the logistics so it's as fun as conquering enemy territory. Making supply visual and semi-automatic could be one way ahead. Instead of moving lorries, you could setup setup supply routes. There should probably be routes generated for you so all you need to do is tweak them. That way it can be reused for the AI.

 

Some examples of games with different logistics:

- Colonization - You spend much of the game moving different cargo. This is one of my all time favorites (although not the remake...)

- Battle Isle series - Having special units that can refill your combat units.



#10 Squeaky   Members   -  Reputation: 104

Like
0Likes
Like

Posted 07 April 2013 - 08:55 AM

I would try Warrior kings. There was not much in the way of logistics bit it was a great game. The premise is that archers had a limited supply of arrows (meaning an army had to have a supply wagon which also doubled as a medical wagon) and each village you created was a hub where reasources were stockpiled and had to be sent to your castle with carts. These mechanics added depth to the game but it was still accessable. The relience on supply wagons also mean that large armies were more common than tiny ones as you get in some strategy games.



#11 mippy   Members   -  Reputation: 989

Like
1Likes
Like

Posted 07 April 2013 - 03:37 PM

I would make a "two sided tower defence game", where you would control the logistical flow to different bases. When they are well supplied they can pump out unit waves, which can defeat the enemy. The enemy would do the same thing. The player would have to balance the flows through the network. The tool for doing so would be some settings in each node and "vertice" that connects it to other nodes. Resources move out of base back to home-base, while units and troops move away. Dont know if this makes any sense. The player would play it by manipulating what is produced in the main-base, and then manipulate what and how much units should go where. The numbers indicate how many units are "fortifying" the node. 

 

 logistical+strategy+game.png

Uhh... my language has degraded... to much sc2 :S


Edited by mipmap, 07 April 2013 - 03:39 PM.





Old topic!
Guest, the last post of this topic is over 60 days old and at this point you may not reply in this topic. If you wish to continue this conversation start a new topic.



PARTNERS