Jump to content

  • Log In with Google      Sign In   
  • Create Account

Interested in a FREE copy of HTML5 game maker Construct 2?

We'll be giving away three Personal Edition licences in next Tuesday's GDNet Direct email newsletter!

Sign up from the right-hand sidebar on our homepage and read Tuesday's newsletter for details!


We're also offering banner ads on our site from just $5! 1. Details HERE. 2. GDNet+ Subscriptions HERE. 3. Ad upload HERE.


How many classes does a software engineer is expected to work with?


Old topic!
Guest, the last post of this topic is over 60 days old and at this point you may not reply in this topic. If you wish to continue this conversation start a new topic.

  • You cannot reply to this topic
11 replies to this topic

#1 warnexus   Prime Members   -  Reputation: 1454

Like
0Likes
Like

Posted 28 March 2013 - 07:08 PM

So I have been working with my Java game project. And it dawned on me how much the game has grown with the new features that has been implemented in the last 3 months. Time sure flies. The game started with 11 classes total. 
 
So I was wondering, how many classes is a software engineer expected to work with on an average daily basis?
 
On a side note I also have a different question, is there a time to restructure code besides using it on duplicated code? 

Edited by warnexus, 28 March 2013 - 07:37 PM.


Sponsor:

#2 Bacterius   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 9056

Like
0Likes
Like

Posted 28 March 2013 - 07:39 PM

It depends... but if your architecture is modular, two unrelated classes should be independent, so that the work can be optimally spread over multiple engineers programmers. As long as your design makes sense and is easily understandable, you can easily scale up to many, many classes. But don't go overboard making a new class for every tiny new thing if it's not warranted, that's where things start to go downhill. For instance, don't make one class for a wooden wall, and another one for a stone wall - they have the same purpose, create a "Wall" class and give it texture attributes and so on. On the other hand, it doesn't make sense to try and fit a wall and a player character in the same class, they are completely different.

 

For reference, my renderer I'm working on has something like 30 classes (or constructs equivalent to classes), and it is a tiny, insignificant project in comparison to many games out there.

 

And I don't think it makes sense to ask about expectations here. As long as the game is progressing, why should it matter? Some days you're going to be working hard on fixing and improving one or two classes, other days you might be doing some bug checking over the entire code base.


The slowsort algorithm is a perfect illustration of the multiply and surrender paradigm, which is perhaps the single most important paradigm in the development of reluctant algorithms. The basic multiply and surrender strategy consists in replacing the problem at hand by two or more subproblems, each slightly simpler than the original, and continue multiplying subproblems and subsubproblems recursively in this fashion as long as possible. At some point the subproblems will all become so simple that their solution can no longer be postponed, and we will have to surrender. Experience shows that, in most cases, by the time this point is reached the total work will be substantially higher than what could have been wasted by a more direct approach.

 

- Pessimal Algorithms and Simplexity Analysis


#3 warnexus   Prime Members   -  Reputation: 1454

Like
0Likes
Like

Posted 28 March 2013 - 08:00 PM

It depends... but if your architecture is modular, two unrelated classes should be independent, so that the work can be optimally spread over multiple engineers programmers. As long as your design makes sense and is easily understandable, you can easily scale up to many, many classes. But don't go overboard making a new class for every tiny new thing if it's not warranted, that's where things start to go downhill. For instance, don't make one class for a wooden wall, and another one for a stone wall - they have the same purpose, create a "Wall" class and give it texture attributes and so on. On the other hand, it doesn't make sense to try and fit a wall and a player character in the same class, they are completely different.

 

For reference, my renderer I'm working on has something like 30 classes (or constructs equivalent to classes), and it is a tiny, insignificant project in comparison to many games out there.

 

And I don't think it makes sense to ask about expectations here. As long as the game is progressing, why should it matter? Some days you're going to be working hard on fixing and improving one or two classes, other days you might be doing some bug checking over the entire code base.

You got a point there. Thanks. smile.png



#4 Xanather   Members   -  Reputation: 712

Like
0Likes
Like

Posted 28 March 2013 - 09:53 PM

It depends, its usually 1 class per "real life" object, but sometimes inheritance can add to it further.



#5 swiftcoder   Senior Moderators   -  Reputation: 10234

Like
1Likes
Like

Posted 28 March 2013 - 09:57 PM

So I was wondering, how many classes is a software engineer expected to work with on an average daily basis?

Over 9000.

 

More seriously, as many classes as the APIs you work with contain. As a (somewhat horrifying) benchmark, Java 7 has ~3,800 documented classes.


Tristam MacDonald - Software Engineer @Amazon - [swiftcoding]


#6 T_Ice   Members   -  Reputation: 166

Like
0Likes
Like

Posted 29 March 2013 - 03:25 AM

There is no right anwser to your original question Warnexus.

 

It depends greatly on your project. For example, the current professional product I am working on has well over 12.000 classes and more than 25 million lines of code (excluding the generated classes and lines of code).

This might seem a lot, but we are using the SOLID-priniciple, which greatly reduces complexity and improves maintainability. Each day many new classes are created and existing ones are deprecated.

 

Most classes can be printed on a A4 paper and are very simple in nature. One other advantage is that we get very few merge conflicts and those we do get are solved within a minute.



#7 Hodgman   Moderators   -  Reputation: 30964

Like
1Likes
Like

Posted 29 March 2013 - 04:13 AM

I've worked on some projects that didn't follow proper OOD rules (e.g. SOLID, mentioned above), so they had a smaller number of classes, but each class had a huge amount of member variables and functions.

On other projects that do use proper OOD, there's more classes, but each one is simpler.

In both cases, the total amount of code that you've got to understand and remember is about the same, so the number of classes doesn't really mean much.

 

I once overheard a co-worker comparing two implementations of a light-sabre weapon attachment module for our character class, and he was complaining that one of the implementations was complex because it was made up of, like, 3 different classes, whereas the one he liked did everything in a single uber-class. In my mind, all I heard was "I was never taught OOD, can we go back to using C please?tongue.png wink.png


Edited by Hodgman, 29 March 2013 - 04:15 AM.


#8 LorenzoGatti   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 2735

Like
0Likes
Like

Posted 29 March 2013 - 05:13 AM

I'm working on a Java banking application containing about 11500 classes (conservative estimate), hundreds of which are automatically generated boilerplate, collateral tools, tests, etc. Does this ridiculous class count matter? Of course not: any reasonable modification scenario involves a narrow vertical slice of 4-10 classes and/or a comparable number of configuration files or web page pieces and templates. Having less classes would mean worse separation of concerns, greater complexity, decreased readability, and increased and worsened merging conflicts, with no benefit whatsoever.
Produci, consuma, crepa

#9 metsfan   Members   -  Reputation: 654

Like
0Likes
Like

Posted 29 March 2013 - 10:35 AM

There is no number.  The number of classes you need is the right number.  Every program is different, including games.  If you think you have too many objects, maybe you should ask yourself why.  Do you feel like each object doesn't perform a unique role?  Are there maybe some objects that would be better suited as interfaces?  At the end of the day though, there is no such as "enough" or "too many" classes, in general.  There is only such thing as "just enough" classes.



#10 Shannon Barber   Moderators   -  Reputation: 1383

Like
4Likes
Like

Posted 29 March 2013 - 03:21 PM

The minimum necessary to implement the system correctly.


- The trade-off between price and quality does not exist in Japan. Rather, the idea that high quality brings on cost reduction is widely accepted.-- Tajima & Matsubara

#11 Khatharr   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 3030

Like
0Likes
Like

Posted 29 March 2013 - 04:47 PM

The minimum necessary to implement the system correctly.

Thank you.
void hurrrrrrrr() {__asm sub [ebp+4],5;}

There are ten kinds of people in this world: those who understand binary and those who don't.

#12 TheChubu   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 4556

Like
1Likes
Like

Posted 29 March 2013 - 05:22 PM

The minimum necessary to implement the system correctly.

Possibly more.


"I AM ZE EMPRAH OPENGL 3.3 THE CORE, I DEMAND FROM THEE ZE SHADERZ AND MATRIXEZ"

 

My journals: dustArtemis ECS framework and Making a Terrain Generator





Old topic!
Guest, the last post of this topic is over 60 days old and at this point you may not reply in this topic. If you wish to continue this conversation start a new topic.



PARTNERS