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Making an optimized 3d mmo in open gl c++


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#1 shawk08033   Members   -  Reputation: 96

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 05:05 PM

I currently starting to make a mmorpg in c++ using opengl. How could I optimized it to run the best it can on integrated graphics but also take full advantage of top of line graphics card like a GTX 660 or higher.Would it been done directly in the way I code opengl or would it been done by changing the quality of the texture images?? 



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#2 mhagain   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 7592

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 05:30 PM

Drop OpenGL and port it to D3D9.

 

Seriously.

 

OpenGL on integrated graphics is getting better for sure, but it's still not in the same league as D3D for robustness of driver quality and all-round general predictable behaviour.  D3D will give you (and - importantly - your players) a much more stable, solid experience and with less driver weirdness to have to deal with on integrateds, you'll be able to access features that are just not available with their OpenGL drivers (such as high-level shaders), and you'll be able to target machines with OEM drivers that don't include OpenGL support.  D3D9 in particular will enable you to hit even older Intel GMA class graphics with a reasonably full feature set.

 

On the other hand, and being a little more serious, I'd suggest that you're spreading your target hardware too wide.  You're talking several generations of hardware and at least an order of magnitude difference in performance, and you want to get the best possible out of it all.  Even with the best will in the world that's just not going to happen; nobody does that, not even major game studios with huge budgets.  So scale down your ambitions and pick a more realistic and achievable goal instead.


Edited by mhagain, 04 April 2013 - 05:33 PM.

It appears that the gentleman thought C++ was extremely difficult and he was overjoyed that the machine was absorbing it; he understood that good C++ is difficult but the best C++ is well-nigh unintelligible.


#3 shawk08033   Members   -  Reputation: 96

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 06:01 PM

Is Direct x portable to mac??



#4 Racoonacoon   Members   -  Reputation: 443

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 06:33 PM

No, DirectX is Windows only. That said, it sounds like you may be a beginner of sorts. Perhaps you should aim for a smaller scale project to get an understanding of the graphics API before you target something as large as an MMORPG?



#5 Chris_F   Members   -  Reputation: 2198

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 06:34 PM

Is Direct x portable to mac??

 

Yes, with OpenGL.



#6 shawk08033   Members   -  Reputation: 96

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 06:45 PM

I don't consider myself a beginner, I have over 3 years of c++, c# and game programming behind me but I have not programmed a game with optimized graphics.



#7 mhagain   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 7592

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Posted 05 April 2013 - 05:00 AM

OK, but I still think you're taking on too much here.  Let's recap.

 

You want this to be portable, and presumably as well as Windows and Mac you're also looking at Linux.

You want it to take full advantage of modern/high-end graphics cards.

You also want it to run as well as possible on low ends and integrateds (which are also going to include those integrateds with OEM drivers I mentioned).

 

You're just not going to be able to do this, full stop.  It's neither a realistic nor an achievable goal.  Yes, it's nice to be all inclusive, but one person dosn't have time or resources to do it.


It appears that the gentleman thought C++ was extremely difficult and he was overjoyed that the machine was absorbing it; he understood that good C++ is difficult but the best C++ is well-nigh unintelligible.


#8 AgentC   Members   -  Reputation: 1259

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Posted 05 April 2013 - 06:22 AM

I have seen good OpenGL performance and compatibility in the newest Intel integrated GPUs, like HD Graphics 3000 and co. These will eg. be able to do deferred rendering without problems and with reasonable performance. Anything older than that (for example GMA 3000/4000, not HD) will be problematic and works much better with D3D. Note I'm only talking of Windows drivers here, have not tested Intel cards on Linux or Mac.

 

To scale performance consists of many things, in addition to texture resolution you can eg.

- reduce complexity of shading equations

- leave out "decoration" objects on low-end systems, as well as particle effects

- have object LODs with fewer triangles

- disable dynamic shadows, or render them with lower resolution

- disable or scale down post processing effects

 

Basically, everything you usually see in games' graphics settings menus.


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#9 wintertime   Members   -  Reputation: 1640

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Posted 05 April 2013 - 08:14 AM

This question is like putting the cart before the horse. If you dont have a game you dont need to worry about optimizing it.

I would worry much more about how to actually undertake such a huge project as an MMORPG that needs a large amount of content. Maybe you would be better off doing something less demanding?



#10 Álvaro   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 12450

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Posted 05 April 2013 - 08:59 AM

I don't consider myself a beginner, I have over 3 years of c++, c# and game programming behind me but I have not programmed a game with optimized graphics.

Oh, I see! You are a big boy now! smile.png

MMORPGs require large budgets (tens of millions of dollars is probably the right order of magnitude) and involve hiring lots of people. The details of how to optimize the graphics are something you can ask one the experienced graphics programmers you will need to hire.

I know some people don't like analogies, but this is a bit like wanting to make a movie like Avatar and asking about some technical aspect, like motion capture. While motion capture was important for this movie, what you should be thinking about if you want to make a movie like Avatar is that you need a movie studio and a lot of money. Or you could make some low-budget indie film instead (clicky), or you could get a job in someone else's project so that you can learn how the business works.

Edited by Álvaro, 05 April 2013 - 09:00 AM.


#11 Megahertz   Members   -  Reputation: 285

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Posted 05 April 2013 - 10:05 AM

Do you need tens of millions of dollars in assets and hire a ton of people to make a MMORPG? No..

 

Every time somebody says they want to make an MMORPG, it always gets assumed that they are trying to create something bigger and better than World of Warcraft, or whatever happens to be the most popular MMO at the time.

 

Even if that was the goal, how do you solicit funding without some sort of proof of concept or technology demo?

 

It's entirely possible for one person to create a framework that would allow for the basic operation of a MMO type game.


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#12 Álvaro   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 12450

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Posted 05 April 2013 - 12:00 PM

It looks like Megahertz and I have different ideas of what a MMORPG is. "MM" stands for "massively multiplayer", which already implies a level of infrastructure that a single person cannot accomplish.

What's an example of a MMORPG built by a single person?

EDIT: From the Wikipedia page on MMORPGs:

The cost of developing a competitive commercial MMORPG title often exceeded $10 million by 2003. These projects require multiple disciplines within game design and development such as 3D modeling, 2D art, animation, user interfaces, client/server engineering, database architecture, and network infrastructure.


Edited by Álvaro, 05 April 2013 - 12:08 PM.


#13 slicer4ever   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 3387

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Posted 05 April 2013 - 12:26 PM

shawk08033, on 04 Apr 2013 - 19:09, said:
I currently starting to make a mmorpg in c++ using opengl. How could I optimized it to run the best it can on integrated graphics but also take full advantage of top of line graphics card like a GTX 660 or higher.Would it been done directly in the way I code opengl or would it been done by changing the quality of the texture images??

To answer your question, most games provide different models with different levels of details. and provide simplier shaders for hardware that can't do all the fancy stuff that modern hardware can do.

It's all about providing different rendering paths depending on some pre-set variables that the user can change(most commonly these settings are things like high quality models, high quality shaders(that do more lightning calculations, or post-processing effects), quality of textures, etc.) basically you provide several different rendering modes, and the user can select the one that is most playable for them.


However, i'd heed the warnings of the above commentors, MMO's are a pain in the ass to make by yourself. perhaps don't consider building an MMO, but instead a small multiplayer game is more manageable, and doesn't need heavy duty dedicated public servers.
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#14 mhagain   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 7592

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Posted 05 April 2013 - 01:41 PM

Do you need tens of millions of dollars in assets and hire a ton of people to make a MMORPG? No..

 

Every time somebody says they want to make an MMORPG, it always gets assumed that they are trying to create something bigger and better than World of Warcraft, or whatever happens to be the most popular MMO at the time.

 

Even if that was the goal, how do you solicit funding without some sort of proof of concept or technology demo?

 

It's entirely possible for one person to create a framework that would allow for the basic operation of a MMO type game.

 

Well based on the OP:

 

run the best it can on integrated graphics but also take full advantage of top of line graphics card

 

Even if we leave out the gameplay elements, building highly scalable netcode, hiring out server farms to host it, having extremely high bandwidth, etc - even if we ignore all those factors, this element on it's own is far too ambitious.


It appears that the gentleman thought C++ was extremely difficult and he was overjoyed that the machine was absorbing it; he understood that good C++ is difficult but the best C++ is well-nigh unintelligible.


#15 SimonForsman   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 5965

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Posted 05 April 2013 - 03:06 PM

It looks like Megahertz and I have different ideas of what a MMORPG is. "MM" stands for "massively multiplayer", which already implies a level of infrastructure that a single person cannot accomplish.

What's an example of a MMORPG built by a single person?

EDIT: From the Wikipedia page on MMORPGs:

The cost of developing a competitive commercial MMORPG title often exceeded $10 million by 2003. These projects require multiple disciplines within game design and development such as 3D modeling, 2D art, animation, user interfaces, client/server engineering, database architecture, and network infrastructure.


Allthough there are MMOs developed by single developers or 2-3 man teams.

The only requirement to really qualify as an MMO is that the game supports a massive number of players playing together at the same time in a single game world, if you get rid of things such as realtime gameplay, content variation, etc it becomes quite doable even for a single person and hosting costs doesn't necessarily have to be that high. (a MMO where updates are sent/revieved once or twice per minute is still an MMO, and such infrequent updates pretty much eliminates the need for a complex server/network architecture. (If you have more players than a single server can handle at those rates you can just launch more game instances, rather than try to fit more players per instance)

Ofcourse, "Optimized 3D MMO" sort of suggest that the OP is trying to take on games like WoW head on.

Edited by SimonForsman, 05 April 2013 - 03:13 PM.

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#16 shawk08033   Members   -  Reputation: 96

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Posted 05 April 2013 - 05:47 PM

I have been told about how hard mmo are but right I am just trying to make a demo because I have a friend who owns a marketing firm whos interested in the game. Right now i am just creating simple code structure so I can show off the concept.  



#17 Paradigm Shifter   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 5230

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Posted 05 April 2013 - 05:50 PM

Well, I'd concentrate on the MMO part rather than the graphics part if you just want to make a concept.


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#18 Steve_Segreto   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 1490

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Posted 06 April 2013 - 09:21 PM

shawk08033 - one thing that could be done to keep performance high across many generations of hardware is to have different art assets with less polygons, smaller textures and less intensive pixel shading requirements. If you also had a "high-res" version of these assets, players with more modern graphics hardware could use that.



#19 rouncer   Members   -  Reputation: 285

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Posted 06 April 2013 - 11:38 PM

You definitely need to start with a really good mmorpg maker, either that, or make one instead, without the best tools youll never finish it.






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