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Gun Control In Australia vs the USA


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#121 AltarofScience   Members   -  Reputation: 935

Posted 11 May 2013 - 01:23 AM

I think something that's being missed is that the rate of gun violence is declining. It seems like a knee jerk reaction to try to fix something that is working and getting better already just because a handful of shitty things happen. Considerring that and the fact that we're the closest first world country to most of the countries that rank higher than us in Gun violence, I don't know what else could be asked.

I'm all for lowering gun violence, but passing crappy legislation so people can feel good about themselves is almost always a bad idea.

The number of gun deaths in America each year is actually about equal to the number of vehicle deaths. Most of them are accidents though and caused by things you can't control plus we use cars far more than we use guns.

Just to back this up, in 2011 they were close enough to be pretty much statistically equal. The death rates for both were 10.3/100,000. I just looked an apparently in 2009 cars got way better. I found that interesting that there was like a 20,000 death drop in a years time. Good job auto industry o.o

edit: I just checked something and apparently 60% of our gun deaths are suicides. Not really sure how that affects things.

I did see the suicide thing. I think one thing to note is that suicide research tells us that gun suicides are perhaps the most successful of all. So its still an issue.

 

I would say that the drop in crime is across the board rather than dealing with guns. Australia has dropping rates, too. As do other areas. The question is whether gun rates are dropping as a % of crimes since gun crimes tend to be more deadly than other kinds.

 

Just because there is a generic crime drop doesn't mean we should just let guns go on. We should still try to reduce their danger.



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#122 Hodgman   Moderators   -  Reputation: 31926

Posted 11 May 2013 - 02:35 AM

Don't forget that Australia has 22 million people, the US has 311 million.

So all other things being equal we will have 14 times the number of violent crimes.

Yeah, you'd expect the US to have about 14 times more homicides, but it actually has about 68 times more homicides...
So, yeah, the US is special when it comes to the amount of crime and violence.
There's also the fact that the US houses 5% of the world population, but 25% of the world's prisoners. WTF?
Compared to the rest of the first world, there is a great sickness in American society, much of which is fueled by the insane levels of inequality.
The fact that there cannot be any public discussion about this sickness is a huge part of the problem - admitting there is a problem is unpatriotic, which apparently is a fate worse than death...

Per capita many more people are killed by cars than by guns, but somehow you don't see people calling for bans on automobiles.

But you do see people calling for gun licences and regulations, like we do to minimize the harm done by automobiles.

It may be simplest to make guns illegal in urban zones while letting them remain legal in less urban areas. I think someone suggested this earlier in this thread. The more urban areas do not have the same need for guns that people may have in more rural settings. In more rural areas, I can see why people would want to keep guns, even though I personally do not like the idea of freely available guns.

that's the premise of the thread - Australian gun control. People in rural areas who need guns can get a license for them, people in urban areas with no need cannot get a license.

I just checked something and apparently 60% of our gun deaths are suicides. Not really sure how that affects things.

I had a traumatic period in my life which brought a brief period of suicidal thoughts. There was one night where I finally couldn't take any more, I was too weak, I had to escape, so I resolved to actually go through with it. Luckily, I lived (obviously), and by the next day the thoughts had subsided and never got that bad again.
If I could've walked down the street and bought a hundgun without a license or waiting period, I would be dead right now. Seeing that suicidal people are in a state of insanity, there's also the chance that I could've taken others with me.
So from a very personal point of view, I'm thankful that gun dealers here don't sell unlicensed firearms...


Edited by Hodgman, 11 May 2013 - 03:05 AM.


#123 way2lazy2care   Members   -  Reputation: 782

Posted 11 May 2013 - 02:30 PM

I did see the suicide thing. I think one thing to note is that suicide research tells us that gun suicides are perhaps the most successful of all. So its still an issue.

They're definitely the most successful, but America's suicide rate isn't that far off from other first world countries with tighter gun control.

http://www.who.int/mental_health/prevention/suicide_rates/en/

I had a traumatic period in my life which brought a brief period of suicidal thoughts. There was one night where I finally couldn't take any more, I was too weak, I had to escape, so I resolved to actually go through with it. Luckily, I lived (obviously), and by the next day the thoughts had subsided and never got that bad again.
If I could've walked down the street and bought a hundgun without a license or waiting period, I would be dead right now. Seeing that suicidal people are in a state of insanity, there's also the chance that I could've taken others with me.
So from a very personal point of view, I'm thankful that gun dealers here don't sell unlicensed firearms...

That's understandable, but I think if you didn't already own a gun there are easier ways to kill yourself than going to buy a gun and using it to kill yourself. If you already own a gun I don't think a license or a waiting period would really stop anything. We've had a 5 day waiting period on handguns in the US since 94.

I'm not trying to trivialize an emotional experience you had, but I don't think emotional responses make for the best legislation.




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