Jump to content

  • Log In with Google      Sign In   
  • Create Account


Microsoft burned down my home, where now?


Old topic!
Guest, the last post of this topic is over 60 days old and at this point you may not reply in this topic. If you wish to continue this conversation start a new topic.

  • You cannot reply to this topic
42 replies to this topic

#1 DropnFBombs   Members   -  Reputation: 92

Like
-3Likes
Like

Posted 28 April 2013 - 04:27 PM

Long story short I've been using XNA for 6 years now just playing around with code, not actually producing anything.  It helped me get to where I am today; a professional coder using C#.  Well, apparently XNA is dead.  After 2 hours of despair I decided that I'd try going to C++ and Direct X (I used them at school so I have some idea of what I'm doing).  From what I've ready I can't do that with the new version of VSE; I have to pay to upgrade which I refuse to do unless I started actually making money from my hobby.

 

So where to now?  I've been looking at Unity, which apparently uses C#, however I've never been able to get into it, like at all.  I install it, see what looks like a map editor, and decide it's not for me because I'm not looking for a game engine I'm looking for a game library.  I'm not really sure if there is anything like XNA out there.  

 

I can say I'm pretty pissed off at Microsoft; all this talk about supporting Indie development then they just yank out the carpet for no reason.  I honestly don't know why they did it, especially with them trying to get people developing cross system apps for Windows 8 and especially with them having C# as a primary app language.  It just made sense to me that they would expand on XNA to work with all versions of Win 8, straight PC, 360, and the new 720, but instead they slammed the door shut.  Don't know where to go from here.

 

Any thoughts?



Sponsor:

#2 Bacterius   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 8164

Like
5Likes
Like

Posted 28 April 2013 - 04:30 PM

Try SlimDX or SharpDX maybe? I am not sure if they have everything you need though, they are DirectX wrappers for the most part.


The slowsort algorithm is a perfect illustration of the multiply and surrender paradigm, which is perhaps the single most important paradigm in the development of reluctant algorithms. The basic multiply and surrender strategy consists in replacing the problem at hand by two or more subproblems, each slightly simpler than the original, and continue multiplying subproblems and subsubproblems recursively in this fashion as long as possible. At some point the subproblems will all become so simple that their solution can no longer be postponed, and we will have to surrender. Experience shows that, in most cases, by the time this point is reached the total work will be substantially higher than what could have been wasted by a more direct approach.

 

- Pessimal Algorithms and Simplexity Analysis


#3 Haps   Members   -  Reputation: 1315

Like
9Likes
Like

Posted 28 April 2013 - 04:59 PM

I'm not really sure if there is anything like XNA out there.

 

Fortunately, MonoGame is a continuing open source implementation of XNA, so your knowledge will transfer over.

 

Here's a page describing how to get set up, give it a try.


Edited by Haps, 28 April 2013 - 05:12 PM.


#4 VladR   Members   -  Reputation: 722

Like
2Likes
Like

Posted 28 April 2013 - 05:41 PM

No, XNA is not dead. I suspect it will get at least 3-4 more years of life, at least.

 

I, for one, am viewing the lack of updates to the API as a Good Thing (no more broken code for dubious new "features").

 

3 yrs ago, I switched from C++/DirectX into C# / XNA. Yes, I still have the C++/DX engine/game codebase. But I'm not returning back to it.

 

 

I am sticking to XNA, since thanks to MonoGame I have an access to all platforms i could possibly have my games on. Yes, iOs and Android require some investment (Xamarin), but without Mac you can't really test your app anyway (i.e. using remote desktop - virtual macs), so it's not that big of a deal.

 

 

 

It remains to be seen how much of an indie support will the new XBOX get. Let's wait for that first, before burrying XNA...


VladR    My 3rd person action RPG on GreenLight:    http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=92951596

 


#5 walsh06   Members   -  Reputation: 607

Like
2Likes
Like

Posted 28 April 2013 - 05:54 PM

monogame is written the exact same as XNA the only difference is how it handles resources. I had to use it recently for a competition and after a short while setting it up I had no problems with it.



#6 Racoonacoon   Members   -  Reputation: 439

Like
9Likes
Like

Posted 28 April 2013 - 06:40 PM

After 2 hours of despair I decided that I'd try going to C++ and Direct X (I used them at school so I have some idea of what I'm doing).  From what I've ready I can't do that with the new version of VSE; I have to pay to upgrade which I refuse to do unless I started actually making money from my hobby.

 

You don't need the Pro edition to do DirectX development. You only need the pro if you want all the new fancy game dev specific features that VS 2012 offers, but you can use the express without these additions just fine. I'm currently using Visual Studio Express for Windows 8 to develop a DirectX game and everything works great.

 

As others have already mentioned, you should definitely check out MonoGame.



#7 Memories are Better   Prime Members   -  Reputation: 769

Like
4Likes
Like

Posted 28 April 2013 - 07:42 PM

If you are use to C#, try SharpDX it is really nice to work with, I never really liked XNA as it hid far too much lower level stuff that was important from a learning perspective and was DX9 only. I say give SharpDX a go before going pure raw C++ or COM warfare as I like to call it



#8 Hodgman   Moderators   -  Reputation: 27686

Like
26Likes
Like

Posted 28 April 2013 - 08:39 PM

...

You're talking as if Microsoft has deleted all copies of XNA from the earth, when all they've done is announced that it's reached maturity and won't be developed any further. D3D9 isn't being updated either, and it's still used to create games.

  • You can keep using the existing versions of XNA.
  • You can switch over to the open-source versions of XNA, like Monogame.
  • You can use C# and D3D via SlimDX, etc.
  • You can use C++ and D3D (for free; no you don't have to buy anything).

DON'T PANIC


Edited by Hodgman, 28 April 2013 - 08:41 PM.


#9 Khatharr   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 2820

Like
0Likes
Like

Posted 28 April 2013 - 10:16 PM

+1 Hodge

You don't have to do what M$ tells you.
void hurrrrrrrr() {__asm sub [ebp+4],5;}

There are ten kinds of people in this world: those who understand binary and those who don't.

#10 Xanather   Members   -  Reputation: 703

Like
1Likes
Like

Posted 28 April 2013 - 11:39 PM

I agree, I think it would have been a great idea for Microsoft to continue with XNA and integrate it with the new Windows 8 Metro/store etc, instead they did not, who knows why?

 

I think the final determination of Microsoft and indie game developers will be what they do with the NextBox. Ive already left XNA and have been using MonoGame and MonoGame only (I only use XNA to compile content once in a while). The Windows DirectX platform of MonoGame will probably release soon (the current released windows version uses OpenGL), you can already use a early version of it by downloading from the MonoGame github.

 

The DirectX MonoGame platform uses SharpDX and Direct3D11, they have already started expanding the API further than XNA (multiple window support, RenderTarget3D class, etc...)


Edited by Xanather, 28 April 2013 - 11:40 PM.


#11 0r0d   Members   -  Reputation: 797

Like
0Likes
Like

Posted 29 April 2013 - 12:46 AM

Long story short I've been using XNA for 6 years now just playing around with code, not actually producing anything.  It helped me get to where I am today; a professional coder using C#.  Well, apparently XNA is dead.  After 2 hours of despair I decided that I'd try going to C++ and Direct X (I used them at school so I have some idea of what I'm doing).  From what I've ready I can't do that with the new version of VSE; I have to pay to upgrade which I refuse to do unless I started actually making money from my hobby.

 

So where to now?  I've been looking at Unity, which apparently uses C#, however I've never been able to get into it, like at all.  I install it, see what looks like a map editor, and decide it's not for me because I'm not looking for a game engine I'm looking for a game library.  I'm not really sure if there is anything like XNA out there.  

 

I can say I'm pretty pissed off at Microsoft; all this talk about supporting Indie development then they just yank out the carpet for no reason.  I honestly don't know why they did it, especially with them trying to get people developing cross system apps for Windows 8 and especially with them having C# as a primary app language.  It just made sense to me that they would expand on XNA to work with all versions of Win 8, straight PC, 360, and the new 720, but instead they slammed the door shut.  Don't know where to go from here.

 

Any thoughts?

My thoughts are that whenever you buy into a companies proprietary tech then you're at their mercy.  Now I know that XNA is not just a Microsoft proprietary tech, since you can still use it through other means, but the point is that it's Microsoft's deal.  You somehow bought into XNA and felt entitled to it, and are now upset because MS did what MS is entitled to do... which is to stop supporting it.  Sorry, you need to deal with it.

 

If you want to stop being at the mercy of companies and their pet languages like XNA and C#, or Objective-C for Apple, then go with C++.  Not sure why you think that you cant use C++ and DirectX with Visual Studio Express, but you're wrong.

 

Personally I really dislike what MS did with XNA/C# and Xbox 360 indie development... which is to say that they mandated that you have to use it and excluded C++/native development.  I have games that I'd have loved to port to the 360, but basically MS said that they didnt want me to.  The wanted only amateurs developing for their indie games section, and that's what they got.  Now they wonder why it was a miserable failure??  All my code, engine, tools, and games are in C++.  I was not about to rewrite everything to C# just because MS and their XNA group decided to push it.  If it was really so great why is their SDK for professional development in C++?  Answer: because if they tried that game developers would rebel and jump ship like it was on fire.  I'm glad MS is getting rid of XNA.



#12 Chad Smith   Members   -  Reputation: 1041

Like
0Likes
Like

Posted 29 April 2013 - 01:50 AM

Long story short I've been using XNA for 6 years now just playing around with code, not actually producing anything.  It helped me get to where I am today; a professional coder using C#.  Well, apparently XNA is dead.  After 2 hours of despair I decided that I'd try going to C++ and Direct X (I used them at school so I have some idea of what I'm doing).  From what I've ready I can't do that with the new version of VSE; I have to pay to upgrade which I refuse to do unless I started actually making money from my hobby.

 

So where to now?  I've been looking at Unity, which apparently uses C#, however I've never been able to get into it, like at all.  I install it, see what looks like a map editor, and decide it's not for me because I'm not looking for a game engine I'm looking for a game library.  I'm not really sure if there is anything like XNA out there.  

 

I can say I'm pretty pissed off at Microsoft; all this talk about supporting Indie development then they just yank out the carpet for no reason.  I honestly don't know why they did it, especially with them trying to get people developing cross system apps for Windows 8 and especially with them having C# as a primary app language.  It just made sense to me that they would expand on XNA to work with all versions of Win 8, straight PC, 360, and the new 720, but instead they slammed the door shut.  Don't know where to go from here.

 

Any thoughts?

 

If you want to stop being at the mercy of companies and their pet languages like XNA and C#, or Objective-C for Apple, then go with C++.  Not sure why you think that you cant use C++ and DirectX with Visual Studio Express, but you're wrong.

Just saying, C# is not a "pet" language of Microsoft.  From what I understand the language definition is under control by the ECMA.  It won't disappear.

 

Though to answer the OP question, I also would say to look into MonoGame.  Though I'm not sure what you saw or read that can you can't use DirectX with Visual Studio Express?



#13 0r0d   Members   -  Reputation: 797

Like
-8Likes
Like

Posted 29 April 2013 - 03:17 AM

ust saying, C# is not a "pet" language of Microsoft.  From what I understand the language definition is under control by the ECMA. 

 

C# was created by Microsoft and they pushed it along with XNA.  So yes, it was their pet language... at least for the XNA group.   If it wasnt for that I doubt many people would be using it today.

 

t won't disappear.

Now that MS is no longer supporting it, actually yes, it probably will disappear.



#14 kunos   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 2186

Like
0Likes
Like

Posted 29 April 2013 - 03:23 AM

Now that MS is no longer supporting it, actually yes, it probably will disappear.

 

actually MS is actively supporting and upgrading C#. A recent study shows how C# still is the most used language to develop Win8 applications.


Stefano Casillo
Lead Programmer
TWITTER: @KunosStefano
AssettoCorsa - netKar PRO - Kunos Simulazioni

#15 0r0d   Members   -  Reputation: 797

Like
1Likes
Like

Posted 29 April 2013 - 03:59 AM

 

Now that MS is no longer supporting it, actually yes, it probably will disappear.

 

actually MS is actively supporting and upgrading C#. A recent study shows how C# still is the most used language to develop Win8 applications.

I have no idea if that's true or not, but it's irrelevant.  Just because something is widely used now doesnt mean it'll be widely used in the future.

 

And I should have clarified, I meant that MS isnt supporting XNA, which I think was one of the main reasons C# gained traction.  It might very well continue to be used in Win8 applications, but since this is a game development forum I'm thinking mostly of... game development.  As far as game development, c++ will continue to be the standard.



#16 kunos   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 2186

Like
2Likes
Like

Posted 29 April 2013 - 04:14 AM

XNA, which I think was one of the main reasons C# gained traction

 

I hope you meant to add "in the game development community". Because if you are suggesting that C# is popular in general development BECAUSE of XNA then please, share the good stuff you're smoking.


Stefano Casillo
Lead Programmer
TWITTER: @KunosStefano
AssettoCorsa - netKar PRO - Kunos Simulazioni

#17 0r0d   Members   -  Reputation: 797

Like
0Likes
Like

Posted 29 April 2013 - 04:25 AM

XNA, which I think was one of the main reasons C# gained traction

 

I hope you meant to add "in the game development community". Because if you are suggesting that C# is popular in general development BECAUSE of XNA then please, share the good stuff you're smoking.

It helps when you read the ENTIRE post.

 

And I should have clarified, I meant that MS isnt supporting XNA, which I think was one of the main reasons C# gained traction.  It might very well continue to be used in Win8 applications, but since this is a game development forum I'm thinking mostly of... game development.  As far as game development, c++ will continue to be the standard.



#18 Buster2000   Members   -  Reputation: 1419

Like
0Likes
Like

Posted 29 April 2013 - 05:35 AM

There were already Managed DirectX tutorial threads and managed vs non-managed flame wars here on Gamedev and other forums a few years before Microsoft even announced XNA.  There were also several .NET games programming blogs around that simply updated their content to be XNA specific.  Also the C++ DirectX SDK also had a couple of examples using C# as a scripting language from within a native C++ game.  So I think it already had traction in the game dev comunity before XNA.
 

 

Mind you you only have to remmember what happened to managed DirectX and then it isn't really a suprise that microsoft dropped XNA.

As for worrying about it ... DON'T.  You can still write games in C# as long as there is still a C# compiler available and that will be a very long time.  Monogame has already been mentioned and I'm suprised more people didn't dump XNA and move to monogame a long time ago.  It supports more platforms and the platforms it does support make it a lot easier to make money out of than the XBOX Indie crapware market.



#19 Starnick   Members   -  Reputation: 1137

Like
3Likes
Like

Posted 29 April 2013 - 05:39 AM

If you want to stop being at the mercy of companies and their pet languages like XNA and C#, or Objective-C for Apple, then go with C++.

 

Well, other posters before me brought it out...but as a professional developer who happens to work almost entirely with C#/.NET technologies (for non-game development, although in a field somewhat related...CAD software), I take umbridge with that statement. It's very narrow thinking to lump a programming language in with a framework or to refer to said framework as a language. It's not the same, and frameworks have a much shorter lifespan than languages. C# has grown to be popular more on its own merits than because of XNA (certainly helped).

 

Maybe we'll find out if anything will replace XNA when the next xbox is revealed (late may I believe now?). When sony unveiled the newest playstation they said they wanted to support indie development, I'd imagine their competitor would want to do the same.



#20 Memories are Better   Prime Members   -  Reputation: 769

Like
0Likes
Like

Posted 29 April 2013 - 08:47 AM

And I should have clarified, I meant that MS isnt supporting XNA, which I think was one of the main reasons C# gained traction. It might very well continue to be used in Win8 applications, but since this is a game development forum I'm thinking mostly of... game development. As far as game development, c++ will continue to be the standard.

 

C++ isn't really used on its own, I like the language and use it but it isn't as super powerful as people claim it to be nor is C# another stupid slow managed language.

 

Majority aren't always right, I don't know about the game industry but I know of other major industries and typically following the bandwagon is rarely to do with productivity, it is more to do with shareholders / business managers lacking balls, and lets be honest here considering every other game released in the last few years is an ''upgrade' of some other game, I doubt the game industry are any different from other industries.

 

Besides you already said

 

"Just because something is widely used now doesnt mean it'll be widely used in the future."

 

Surely this must also apply to your C++ comment too then ;)

 

I say all of this as someone who uses both C# and C++ heavily and daily. Personally I always thought C# gained popularity because of how easy and efficient .NET was to make applications, work with databases and make websites.






Old topic!
Guest, the last post of this topic is over 60 days old and at this point you may not reply in this topic. If you wish to continue this conversation start a new topic.



PARTNERS