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Microsoft and the Xbox One. Thoughts?


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#241 ChaosEngine   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 2509

Posted 20 June 2013 - 05:32 PM

 

 All of these games could be significantly better if they could rely on cloud computation, but that requires a stable internet connection.

See, and that's why most people were upset by the once-a-day-check in; not everyone (even in America) has a reliable connection for such a feature. I can see it being an amazing and REALLY cool thing in the future to have, but really, the infrastructure for such a thing just isn't quite there yet.

 

 

Is that REALLY a problem? I'm not talking about your grandparents living in rural Kansas. I'm talking about the target market of the xbox one. We constantly hear about how most people only buy COD or Halo for their multiplayer. I'm sure most of those people have reasonably reliable internet.

 

And honestly, if you really don't have internet, maybe video-gaming is just not the hobby for you? Put it this way, I love snowboarding, so I live near mountains. Someone complaining that Ethopia has no decent snow should probably take up a different hobby.

 

Hell, I live in New Zealand and everyone I know has broadband. It might have pretty average speed and frankly ridiculous bandwidth caps (10 gig a month!!!), but in terms of a stable, always on connection, this is pretty much a non-issue for anyone who wants to game.


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#242 tstrimple   Prime Members   -  Reputation: 1737

Posted 20 June 2013 - 05:32 PM

from the horses mouth:

 

http://news.xbox.com/Search?q=licensing

What exactly are you trying to point out here?



#243 Alpha_ProgDes   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 4692

Posted 20 June 2013 - 05:35 PM


And honestly, if you really don't have internet, maybe video-gaming is just not the hobby for you? Put it this way, I love snowboarding, so I live near mountains. Someone complaining that Ethopia has no decent snow should probably take up a different hobby.

 

You owe me a new keyboard.

 

But honestly, as I just said in another thread, why the hell do I need the internet to play a game?! That's a ridiculous requirement! It should be optional, not mandatory. I don't need my game console to be a PC. I need it to be a game console. If I want to be play PC games with a controller.... guess what I buy for that...


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#244 Ravyne   GDNet+   -  Reputation: 8188

Posted 20 June 2013 - 05:36 PM

...

 

1) you missed the point, my argument wasn't about me going and buying a disk, and then turning out i had to dl a 20gb game. no i understand that buying the disk ment i didn't have to dl the game. his argument was that, "o i don't have to actually give my disk to my friend to lend it to them, even if they are on the other side of the planet, i can lend it to them, and they will just dl the game." but for someone in my position, being lent a digital game(where i don't have the physical disk) is completely impractical.

also, let's look at this from another point of view. what's the point of buying single player games, if all i have to do is wait for one of my xbox live buddies to get bored of it? I'd think this would hurt the industry more than used sales. it'd also force devs to always shoe-horn in some type of multiplayer component, even for campaigns.
 

...

2) no, it is an damn issue. get over you high horse for being someone lucky enough to live where you get decent internet. I don't wanna be left in the past simply because i can't afford good enough internet. I still wanna enjoy some of the great franchises available, that will only continue onto the newer generation. think of what future elder scrolls have in store when their baseline hardware has finally jumped up a notch.

...


 

3) none of this was ever made clear, and if it was, i'd like to ask for an official link to microsoft. otherwise, all your doing is grasping at "what-ifs".

...


4) you could say that about the ps3, it came out more expensive than the X1, and still is played heavily in third-world countrys. you have a pretty strong attitude of "it doesn't affect me, so who gives a rat ass about you."

 

 

1) I'm not entirely clear that it isn't you who is missing the point. My point was that if you're ina  position where you can't download 20GB of game data, your friend can still lend you his "copy" -- that is, his license to play the game -- digitally, and if at some point you ever had a physical copy of that game in your system, you would not need to download it at all, as long as you still have the disc image on your machine. No purchase necessary.

 

2) Why are your minority preferences so important that they should hold back a majority of people who don't face such restrictions. I can sympathize with your situation, but its not as if playing certain games on certain hardware is a human right. If you're in rural China its appropriate to consider ox-drawn carts when building a road, that doesn't mean its much of a consideration for the first-world.

 

3) I don't have a citation handy, but I can confirm that I've also read that myself.

 

4) You have a pretty strong attitude of "it does affect me, so who gives a rats ass about the rest of you." You're of course entitled to speak out and lobby for your own benefit, but lets not pretend that you doing so is any less self-interested. Holding back a majority, for benefit of a minority is, in this case, likely doing a greater disservice to the platform as a whole, and its typical user.



#245 Alpha_ProgDes   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 4692

Posted 20 June 2013 - 05:40 PM

 

from the horses mouth:

 

http://news.xbox.com/Search?q=licensing

What exactly are you trying to point out here?

 

 

I thought he was just providing official info. No?


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#246 tstrimple   Prime Members   -  Reputation: 1737

Posted 20 June 2013 - 05:42 PM

 

I thought he was just providing official info. No?

 

Not sure... it just goes to a search result for "licensing".



#247 Prinz Eugn   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 3687

Posted 20 June 2013 - 06:00 PM

Interestingly, members of the US military were more than a little pissed off at always online idea. This is on the front page of the Navy Times right now: http://www.navytimes.com/article/20130620/OFFDUTY02/306140030/Microsoft-does-about-face-new-XBox-restrictions.

 

Seriously, there are times even in the urbanized first world (which I suspect is significantly smaller than you guys think) where the daily check in would be a total deal breaker. I remember living only slightly out of town (in 'murica) and having our internet go down for three weeks or so after a bad storm, which sucked because Steam was such a buggy piece of crap back at that time that I couldn't even play Half-Life Source...

 


Hell, I live in New Zealand and everyone I know has broadband.

 

Because it's not like New Zealand isn't one of the most developed countries on the planet...


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#248 tstrimple   Prime Members   -  Reputation: 1737

Posted 20 June 2013 - 06:30 PM

Interestingly, members of the US military were more than a little pissed off at always online idea. This is on the front page of the Navy Times right now: http://www.navytimes.com/article/20130620/OFFDUTY02/306140030/Microsoft-does-about-face-new-XBox-restrictions.

 

 

This is mostly blown out of proportion as well. Pretty much all modern military basis have internet access available. Yes, even bases in Afganistan. Sure, they aren't going to be streaming videos too often or downloading 20GB games, but a daily checking would not have been a major barrier to use for deployed troops. I still maintain that the best way to handle it would have been to be able to bypass the 24 hour offline check when the disc was in the drive.



#249 ChaosEngine   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 2509

Posted 20 June 2013 - 07:25 PM

 


Hell, I live in New Zealand and everyone I know has broadband.

 

Because it's not like New Zealand isn't one of the most developed countries on the planet...

Well, yes and no. Yes it's developed, but the broadband infrastructure is pretty poor, and service is way overpriced.

 

Besides I keep going back to the target market. Surely the "most developed countries" are the ones with the disposable income to afford an xbox one?


if you think programming is like sex, you probably haven't done much of either.-------------- - capn_midnight

#250 slicer4ever   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 3991

Posted 20 June 2013 - 07:36 PM

 

...snip...

 

 

1) I'm not entirely clear that it isn't you who is missing the point. My point was that if you're ina  position where you can't download 20GB of game data, your friend can still lend you his "copy" -- that is, his license to play the game -- digitally, and if at some point you ever had a physical copy of that game in your system, you would not need to download it at all, as long as you still have the disc image on your machine. No purchase necessary.

 

2) Why are your minority preferences so important that they should hold back a majority of people who don't face such restrictions. I can sympathize with your situation, but its not as if playing certain games on certain hardware is a human right. If you're in rural China its appropriate to consider ox-drawn carts when building a road, that doesn't mean its much of a consideration for the first-world.

 

3) I don't have a citation handy, but I can confirm that I've also read that myself.

 

4) You have a pretty strong attitude of "it does affect me, so who gives a rats ass about the rest of you." You're of course entitled to speak out and lobby for your own benefit, but lets not pretend that you doing so is any less self-interested. Holding back a majority, for benefit of a minority is, in this case, likely doing a greater disservice to the platform as a whole, and its typical user.

 

 

1. the original discussion clearly proposed sharing digital games to people that you wouldn't normally be able to lend games to(by way of them downloading the game).

 

2. are you sure you arn't the minority? because obviously with Microsoft back-peddling, they apparently agree with the people that live in rural area's, and don't have the luxury of high-caps/high bandwidth. and consider the shear shit-storm this caused, apparently it's defiantly enough of an issue that yea, you're going to be held back by us "minority".

 

3. tstrimple has made this point more clear since my previous post.

 

4. fair enough.


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#251 Promit   Moderators   -  Reputation: 7695

Posted 20 June 2013 - 08:33 PM

I live close to a major metropolitan area, and: "Comcast is down again, let's go play Xbox" is something that happens to me fairly often. (Once or twice a month?) Is it a make or break feature? No. But I do legitimately expect to get games without internet, and Steam has occasionally failed badly in that regard as well. I was annoyed about the connection thing because of the big brother aspect of it all. Why not a one-time activation for a game? Yes, it would allow you to slightly break the system in the extreme case but that's an edge case of "never connect the console again".

 

That plus we trade games in my circle of friends all the time. The "ten designated sharees" thing was an interesting idea but still had that creepy big brother aspect to it -- not to mention it's not flexible enough. There's a rumor that Steam will allow you to lend games now, and I am curious to see how that goes.


Edited by Promit, 20 June 2013 - 08:36 PM.


#252 Oberon_Command   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 1975

Posted 20 June 2013 - 08:40 PM

 

Interestingly, members of the US military were more than a little pissed off at always online idea. This is on the front page of the Navy Times right now: http://www.navytimes.com/article/20130620/OFFDUTY02/306140030/Microsoft-does-about-face-new-XBox-restrictions.

 

 

This is mostly blown out of proportion as well. Pretty much all modern military basis have internet access available. Yes, even bases in Afganistan. Sure, they aren't going to be streaming videos too often or downloading 20GB games, but a daily checking would not have been a major barrier to use for deployed troops. I still maintain that the best way to handle it would have been to be able to bypass the 24 hour offline check when the disc was in the drive.

 

 

Military bases, sure, but what about naval vessels like nuclear submarines?



#253 Hodgman   Moderators   -  Reputation: 32057

Posted 20 June 2013 - 11:01 PM


It's 2013 now, when was the last time you had to put a disc or any other storage medium into your PC?
2013.

I bought a physical copy of a game I wanted because it was cheaper than the Steam version, and it has good old fashioned "is the disc present" DRM on it :P

 


If Microsoft were smart they would have left physical disc licensing as it is
and announced all the good news related to strong DRM-style licensing for download only games
 
"We will allow you to share downloaded games with up to 10 friends" would have been an PR coup!
Exactly. That's why I don't get the total backflip. They could've back-flipped on discs, but kept the cloud DRM for digital downloads...

#254 tstrimple   Prime Members   -  Reputation: 1737

Posted 20 June 2013 - 11:10 PM

 

This is mostly blown out of proportion as well. Pretty much all modern military basis have internet access available. Yes, even bases in Afganistan. Sure, they aren't going to be streaming videos too often or downloading 20GB games, but a daily checking would not have been a major barrier to use for deployed troops. I still maintain that the best way to handle it would have been to be able to bypass the 24 hour offline check when the disc was in the drive.

 

 

Military bases, sure, but what about naval vessels like nuclear submarines?

 

C'mon now. Should any gaming company really factor in submarine crew when designing their systems? We're talking around 71 US submarines, each with a crew of 120 to 160. That's just over 11 thousand people at the top end, only a fraction of who are going to be "gamers".



#255 Prinz Eugn   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 3687

Posted 21 June 2013 - 12:58 AM

 

 

This is mostly blown out of proportion as well. Pretty much all modern military basis have internet access available. Yes, even bases in Afganistan. Sure, they aren't going to be streaming videos too often or downloading 20GB games, but a daily checking would not have been a major barrier to use for deployed troops. I still maintain that the best way to handle it would have been to be able to bypass the 24 hour offline check when the disc was in the drive.

 

 

Military bases, sure, but what about naval vessels like nuclear submarines?

 

C'mon now. Should any gaming company really factor in submarine crew when designing their systems? We're talking around 71 US submarines, each with a crew of 120 to 160. That's just over 11 thousand people at the top end, only a fraction of who are going to be "gamers".

 

 

 

Or really anybody on a ship, or many bases where personal internet access is either absurdly bad/expensive, which is many overseas locations. The military is heavily skewed towards young adult males, who are often far away from home and vigorously discouraged from drinking/partying/etc, with limited access to the opposite sex... so gaming actually figures pretty heavily. There's really just not much else to do in the free time they have. Deployed troops can get internet, but at forward-ish locations it's often in the form of a group of computers they can get for a certain period of time, not an ethernet port next to their bunk. Presumably official military publications would have some idea of you know, how stuff works in the military.

 

Seriously, just because you/we have reliable broadband doesn't mean everybody does... It sounds like you guys would have to have  "First World Problems" explained to you since you wouldn't understand the irony. 


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#256 slicer4ever   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 3991

Posted 21 June 2013 - 01:56 AM

i'll pop this here: http://gamerant.com/xbox-one-game-sharing-timed-demo/  not sure how reliable the source is, friend linked it on facebook.


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#257 skytiger   Members   -  Reputation: 262

Posted 21 June 2013 - 10:05 AM

I have been told (unreliably) that Kinect sensors will NOT be available as spare parts ...

In other words when the Kinect breaks you have to buy a new X1



#258 Promit   Moderators   -  Reputation: 7695

Posted 21 June 2013 - 10:15 AM

I also don't understand the fixation with submarines. I thought the problem with always on connection was primarily that phone-home type behavior is goddamn creepy. Plus just to repeat, I live in a metropolitan area with a 30mbit/s connection, but I still play consoles without a connection reasonably often because Comcast sucks at everything.

 

I also move our consoles sometimes to houses where getting an internet connection is tricky (eg grandparents live there and "the internet" is one computer directly into a cable modem). One time I played without power. But those are probably unreasonable cases.


Edited by Promit, 21 June 2013 - 10:31 AM.


#259 tstrimple   Prime Members   -  Reputation: 1737

Posted 21 June 2013 - 10:26 AM

i'll pop this here: http://gamerant.com/xbox-one-game-sharing-timed-demo/  not sure how reliable the source is, friend linked it on facebook.

I'm not sure how reliable it is either. Was a pastebin with no  way to verify the author. This doesn't sound like what was described at all, but if it was true it definitely wouldn't be worth the cost of the 24 hour checkin. I also don't think it makes sense because the Xbox has demos now for pretty much every downloadable game available.



#260 skytiger   Members   -  Reputation: 262

Posted 21 June 2013 - 11:33 AM

 

Exactly. That's why I don't get the total backflip. They could've back-flipped on discs, but kept the cloud DRM for digital downloads...

 

Revenge






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