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Microsoft and the Xbox One. Thoughts?


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#121 tstrimple   Prime Members   -  Reputation: 1735

Posted 08 June 2013 - 12:23 AM

I am the opposite. I can keep track of all my CD, SD cards, cartridges. I still have my snes, n64, gamecube, xbox, xbox 360, and wii games in one area: my shelf. I love physical media, it needs to be in my hands. I don't want my whole life to depend on my internet connection. Its easy, insert media and play. Much faster than installing as well.

 

Man... I'm definitely looking forward to having digital copies available for the same price on the same day as the physical release. I've lost probably half a dozen games due to kids scratching discs beyond recovery. Plus I hate having to deal with game store employees. No, I do NOT want to pre-order anything.



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#122 BladeOfWraith   Members   -  Reputation: 245

Posted 08 June 2013 - 11:32 AM

Plenty of my friends like to trade games in for store credit, and essentially buy new ones with that credit.  That won't be possible anymore, and the shops' business will suffer for it.  You may not care, but it's Microsoft who'll be reaping what would have been their profits.  Does no one see this as a bit too greedy?

Have you ever been to Gamestop? Have you ever tried to buy a new game, only to have them try to push a "like new used game for $5 less" off on you? Gamestop does this because their profit margin on it is huge.

 

And do you know how much money the developer makes on each used sale? Zilch. Used games are exactly the same thing as piracy when it comes to developers making money.

 

Gamestop has for years been deliberately harming new sales by aggressively pushing used. Whereas the developer makes more money when there are no used games, who makes money on used games? Just Gamestop, which is a parasite that contributes nothing useful.

 

Meanwhile, on pc, you have Steam. Steam games are cheaper than console games and new games regularly go on firehouse sales. I've picked up six month old titles for $20 on Steam. You will never see that on consoles ATM, and that is specifically because of the used market.

 

This new system is much better for developers and it will be better for people who actually buy a lot of new games. It will be worse for people who mostly buy used games, but they may as well just go pirate their games anyway, for all they contribute to the useful parts of the industry. The only group that truly suffers here is Gamestop.


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#123 slicer4ever   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 3986

Posted 08 June 2013 - 12:15 PM

BladeOfWraith, on 08 Jun 2013 - 13:36, said:

Olliepm, on 28 May 2013 - 13:06, said:
Plenty of my friends like to trade games in for store credit, and essentially buy new ones with that credit. That won't be possible anymore, and the shops' business will suffer for it. You may not care, but it's Microsoft who'll be reaping what would have been their profits. Does no one see this as a bit too greedy?

Have you ever been to Gamestop? Have you ever tried to buy a new game, only to have them try to push a "like new used game for $5 less" off on you? Gamestop does this because their profit margin on it is huge.

not sure where you live, but the gamestop's around me(read 2 of them), have never pushed used copys on me. maybe the guys behind the counter at yours are more invested in the stores success?
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#124 Alpha_ProgDes   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 4692

Posted 08 June 2013 - 12:22 PM

You somehow missed the part about being able to resell those games or give them to friends. You can also play them from other people's consoles by logging into your account. The only way to allow a single digital copy to run on multiple machines is to have those machines online and capable of checking in. Otherwise you could just log into your friend's Xbox, download all of your games, put it in offline mode and now you and your friend both have full copies of all of your games.

 

That's easily remedied by putting a lock or time limit on the borrowed game. If they're offline and past the limit, the game is no longer accessible. If there's a lock, then it can only be unlocked if they're online. Or some combination of the two.

 

The argument for Online DRM is just not cutting it.


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#125 BladeOfWraith   Members   -  Reputation: 245

Posted 08 June 2013 - 12:22 PM

not sure where you live, but the gamestop's around me(read 2 of them), have never pushed used copys on me. maybe the guys behind the counter at yours are more invested in the stores success?

Everywhere I've lived it's been like this. I think that is how it is at most Gamestop locations. That is official company policy. They did revise it recently to preclude games for the first 60 days after launch, but once it hits 61 days, every time a customer tries to buy a new game, if there is a used copy available the employee is supposed to offer the used game.

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#126 Alpha_ProgDes   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 4692

Posted 08 June 2013 - 12:23 PM

BladeOfWraith, on 08 Jun 2013 - 13:36, said:
 

Olliepm, on 28 May 2013 - 13:06, said:
Plenty of my friends like to trade games in for store credit, and essentially buy new ones with that credit. That won't be possible anymore, and the shops' business will suffer for it. You may not care, but it's Microsoft who'll be reaping what would have been their profits. Does no one see this as a bit too greedy?

Have you ever been to Gamestop? Have you ever tried to buy a new game, only to have them try to push a "like new used game for $5 less" off on you? Gamestop does this because their profit margin on it is huge.
 
not sure where you live, but the gamestop's around me(read 2 of them), have never pushed used copys on me. maybe the guys behind the counter at yours are more invested in the stores success?

 

I have had GS employees suggest the used version of the game. But very very rarely have any of them "pushed" on me. They just ask. I say 'no'. And we go on with the transaction, 9 times out of 10.


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#127 BladeOfWraith   Members   -  Reputation: 245

Posted 08 June 2013 - 12:39 PM

When I say they aggressively push used sales, I am speaking of corporate policy, not personal interaction(which should be plain from the context of my post).

 

I don't mean their employee tells me to buy a used game and then tries to convince me if I say no. By offering used on almost every purchase that is aggressively pushing used sales(as a matter of sales impact, not as the personal feelings of a consumer).


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#128 tstrimple   Prime Members   -  Reputation: 1735

Posted 08 June 2013 - 02:18 PM

That's easily remedied by putting a lock or time limit on the borrowed game. If they're offline and past the limit, the game is no longer accessible. If there's a lock, then it can only be unlocked if they're online. Or some combination of the two.

 

The argument for Online DRM is just not cutting it.

 

If who is offline? The person borrowing the game, or the person who loaned it? Regardless, I wasn't referring to borrowing games. I specifically said games you give to friends or trade in. The 24 hour offline check prevents someone from buying a game, installing it and trading it back in the same day just to play the entire game in offline mode. Whether you'd like to admit it or not, not being tied to physical media requires changes in how systems operate. The default method is no returns, no trade in, which is how XBLA works now. The 24 hour offline check is a compromise that will prevent games from being permanently associated with your account like you have with Steam and other game distribution systems.



#129 ISDCaptain01   Members   -  Reputation: 1443

Posted 08 June 2013 - 07:01 PM

What worries me the most is game rentals. Ive been a long-time gamefly user(like Netflix but for games). Its how I play all the games without having to buy. I get the most out of my console this way. M$ has no plans for rentals, and that concerns me a lot. If no rentals are allowed than I simply will not be buying their console.



#130 way2lazy2care   Members   -  Reputation: 782

Posted 08 June 2013 - 08:50 PM

You somehow missed the part about being able to resell those games or give them to friends. You can also play them from other people's consoles by logging into your account. The only way to allow a single digital copy to run on multiple machines is to have those machines online and capable of checking in. Otherwise you could just log into your friend's Xbox, download all of your games, put it in offline mode and now you and your friend both have full copies of all of your games.

 

That's easily remedied by putting a lock or time limit on the borrowed game. If they're offline and past the limit, the game is no longer accessible. If there's a lock, then it can only be unlocked if they're online. Or some combination of the two.

 

The argument for Online DRM is just not cutting it.

Isn't that what they are doing?



#131 Memories are Better   Prime Members   -  Reputation: 769

Posted 09 June 2013 - 11:01 AM

The console itself isn't what bothers me, its the games, so tired of FPS, if Nintendo actually made their games challenging for a change I would have gotten whatever they brought out, I am generally against FPS games and WoW like MMOs now for the obvious reasons.

 

Just once I would like to play a Zelda game where you play as Ganondorf and defeat Link by bashing Navi in his face, or a Mario game where Mario half way says "oh screw it, that bitch isn't going to learn, keep her, if she didn't want to get kidnapped all the time she should just lock her castle door then".

 

I played a few FPS at friends house and was extremely bored, at first it was cool, reminded me of Goldeneye back in the day kindda, but then after like an hour I was like "so what exactly is there to do other than going around killing random people and bragging on mic?".

 

But that doesn't mean I shouldn't respect people who like that sort of gameplay, I for one find all the 'popular' games for Xbox / PS dreadfully boring as a result I will once again avoid all consoles (and PC games for that matter).



#132 tmccolgan88   Members   -  Reputation: 255

Posted 09 June 2013 - 02:23 PM

AS of now I'm not a fan.  It just doesn't seem like it really has anything to do with gaming to me.  Almost like it plays games as an after thought.



#133 kryotech   Members   -  Reputation: 940

Posted 11 June 2013 - 10:16 AM

So, the E3 announcements have revealed even more. I don't like the Xbox One much more though. Anyone else have thoughts?


Kryotech

#134 way2lazy2care   Members   -  Reputation: 782

Posted 11 June 2013 - 11:04 AM

So, the E3 announcements have revealed even more. I don't like the Xbox One much more though. Anyone else have thoughts?

In the interest of consolodating discussion, there's already been a bit here. Probably better to constrain E3 impressions to a single thread.



#135 skytiger   Members   -  Reputation: 262

Posted 12 June 2013 - 09:58 AM

The last thing the video game industry needs is MORE money!

 

The harder they have to fight for money, the better video games will become

 

Right now they have it easy, games like BF3 make well over $1,000,000,000 over their lifetime

 

And even failures are making profits ...

 

All DRM means is more money for less work = bigger comfort zone for investors and customers suffering



#136 way2lazy2care   Members   -  Reputation: 782

Posted 12 June 2013 - 10:04 AM

The harder they have to fight for money, the better video games will become

Or the companies will go out of business.
 

And even failures are making profits ...

 

ಠ_ಠ



#137 Ravyne   GDNet+   -  Reputation: 8192

Posted 12 June 2013 - 10:39 AM

The last thing the video game industry needs is MORE money!

 

The harder they have to fight for money, the better video games will become

 

Right now they have it easy, games like BF3 make well over $1,000,000,000 over their lifetime

 

And even failures are making profits ...

 

All DRM means is more money for less work = bigger comfort zone for investors and customers suffering

 

Do you live in the same world as the rest of us? What's it like to live in a house made of icing and rainbows?

 

Yes there are heavy hitters out there pulling in a billion dollars, for every one of them there's 10 that make 100 million, and 100 that make just 10 million (which is already unprofitable for an AA game) -- and for every one of those there are 1000 that make even less, which luckily are small games that cost less to produce. AAA studios close practically every week because their game sold "only" a million copies.

 

I'm no fan of DRM, but honestly, Microsoft essentially solved the problem of piracy with the 360 -- Sure, there are effective cracks now, but piracy is not a widespread problem. If you ask Microsoft, the network-based DRM and software installs are more about not having to swap discs every time you play a game than it is about piracy. There's the used-game licensing aspect too, but whether you agree with that or not, you at least must realize that its better for the publisher and studio to get a cut of the sale, rather than all of the profits going to gamestop, who had nothing to do with its creation.


Edited by Ravyne, 12 June 2013 - 10:40 AM.


#138 SimonForsman   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 6322

Posted 12 June 2013 - 11:47 AM

 

Plenty of my friends like to trade games in for store credit, and essentially buy new ones with that credit.  That won't be possible anymore, and the shops' business will suffer for it.  You may not care, but it's Microsoft who'll be reaping what would have been their profits.  Does no one see this as a bit too greedy?

Have you ever been to Gamestop? Have you ever tried to buy a new game, only to have them try to push a "like new used game for $5 less" off on you? Gamestop does this because their profit margin on it is huge.

 

And do you know how much money the developer makes on each used sale? Zilch. Used games are exactly the same thing as piracy when it comes to developers making money.

 

Gamestop has for years been deliberately harming new sales by aggressively pushing used. Whereas the developer makes more money when there are no used games, who makes money on used games? Just Gamestop, which is a parasite that contributes nothing useful.

 

Meanwhile, on pc, you have Steam. Steam games are cheaper than console games and new games regularly go on firehouse sales. I've picked up six month old titles for $20 on Steam. You will never see that on consoles ATM, and that is specifically because of the used market.

 

This new system is much better for developers and it will be better for people who actually buy a lot of new games. It will be worse for people who mostly buy used games, but they may as well just go pirate their games anyway, for all they contribute to the useful parts of the industry. The only group that truly suffers here is Gamestop.

 

 

Volvo doesn't get a single cent if i buy a used car either, the right to sell things you've bought is a very fundamental part of basic property rights.

 

The publisher has no moral right at all to take any profit from second hand sales, they got paid the full price for that specific copy when it was sold the first time, if the games aren't good enough for people to want to hold on to for more than a few weeks its a quality problem, blaming that on gamestop or other retailers is just silly, comparing it to piracy is retarded bullshit.


Edited by SimonForsman, 12 June 2013 - 11:51 AM.

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#139 TheChubu   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 4791

Posted 12 June 2013 - 01:39 PM

I always wondered, does the End User Licence Agreement forbids you from reselling the licence you bought? I don't remember reading that in the EULAs I've read.

 

I know there are EULAs who forbid you to do such thing. Say, various VSTs for DAWs forbid you from reselling the licence (this is more an apples to apples comparison since it is a software).

 

It is seems weird to me that publishers go through so many hoops to keep their userbase from reselling the licences instead of plain forbid it in the EULA.

 

I agree with SimonForsman though. It sounds like a very basic thing to me. If I bought it, and its mine (either a physical thing like a Volvo or a licence), I should be able to resell it.

 

But then, other issues come to mind. If I bought a licence to use UnrealEngine 4 (I have a wild imagination :P), if I don't want it anymore and I don't have any published products that use it, can I resell it to someone else? I don't think so.

 

Looks pretty grey to me. I still think anyone should be allowed to resell their games if they want to, the dev/publisher already got the money from that licence.


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#140 skytiger   Members   -  Reputation: 262

Posted 12 June 2013 - 02:13 PM

AAA studios close practically every week because their game sold "only" a million copies

 

exactly my point - they will be forced to rethink and stop generating asset-heavy and entertainment-light boredom-ware






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