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Starship blueprint/idea needed


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#21 TechnoGoth   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 2735

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Posted 13 June 2013 - 11:16 AM

Might I suggest a slightly different paradigm from walking around the ship? What about plan -> resolve -> interact

 

In a number of sim games I've played the each turn starts out with you making some decisions on how to allocate resources that turn and only when you end the turn you see the results. Emergencies can occur that are events that require your immediate attention but the rest could be given at the end of the turn and you have choose which ones to get involved you can only get involved in a limited number each turn.

 

Plan Stage:

  • See blueprint of ship
  • Assign crew to tasks
    • Crew working together are affected by their relationship
  • Choose Destination for ship.

 

Resolve Stage:

  • See the results of the that turn.

Interact

  • Dialog based interaction with crew

 

So for example I set tasks for today to be:

I assign bob and claire to repair the long range scanner

I assign sue to research engine improvement

I assign luke to build a laser pistol.

 

During the day the reactor starts leaking radiation the event pop up and I choose to send Luke in to shut down and the reactor he gets a heavy dose of radiation and power reserves drop by 50%. 

 

Sue worked well at managed to finished 12 hours of research. But Bod and Claire fought only manged to repair 1% of the scanner.

 

I spent my interaction talking with bob and claire to try and resolve their problems. It turns out Claire is still angry about Bob cheating on her with Sue.  Nothing I say improves their relationship.

 

At the start of the next turn I'm now losing power rapidly.  Luke is dying of radiation poisoning and I know claire isn't going to work well with bob or sue. 

 

I can reverse course to the starbase I passed 4 days ago so that Luke can get the treatment he needs.  But power will run out in 3 days.  Also if someone isn't working in the medical bay then Luke is going to get worse quickly.

 

 

 

Now that's a pretty complex example but you can see how it all builds from the decisions of the player.  If you want try a demo of game that uses this sort of paradigm you might try Magical Diary  Its not a great game but had a lot of potential. In it you plan out what classes you take for a week and then interact with different character which effects your relationship and status in school.



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#22 Zennoya   Members   -  Reputation: 178

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Posted 13 June 2013 - 11:21 AM


What you describe is a perfectly reasonable system of restricted updates, but what about systems that improve by being replaced by something else, like weapons?

Theres a lot of possibilities -> you can throw them away, but its a waste, you can trade them with aliens for some usefull staff, or if workshop avalible (not from very beginning, but nearly) you can recycle them to produce new ones and i think this will be way of doing with most stuff.

 

 

 


And how useful are the efficiency upgrades? Quantitatively, they can range from negligible to more important than the difference between ship tiers in other games.

Take for example H2O recycling plant. At beginning it will be large, and have separate room for it. At beginning its nearly capable to hold your people alive, You can upgrade it like 3-4 times each time adding 20% efficiency, which will enable You to get new equipment that uses water, or produce smaller water tank size to fit your requirements. Also you will be possible to do some miniaturisation that will enable you to change recyclle plant from "whole room size" to "large size", than "medium size" and "small size". At the very end it can be integrated with water tank. Still you need to remember that most of research possibilities will depend on events which can be bit randomized, so you dont really know which of that you will be able to research first, but working of one of those, will greatly increase a chance of triggering of event that will enable the other one.

 


Now that's a pretty complex example but you can see how it all builds from the decisions of the player.  If you want try a demo of game that uses this sort of paradigm you might try Magical Diary  Its not a great game but had a lot of potential. In it you plan out what classes you take for a week and then interact with different character which effects your relationship and status in school.

Yeah, Im familiar with this way of playing from games like Gangsters:Organized Crime. Hmm i need to think about that, and how it will change gamplay -> I mean that "standing up from the desk, and going to people" was the main course of this game, and planning and staging will take this effect away. On other side it makes the game easier to make (and it means that more time can be spent to polish all the events and adding new ones, etc), and gives new possibilities. Heh It will be best to make some kind of voting what would people rather play :) 


Edited by Zennoya, 13 June 2013 - 11:33 AM.


#23 Waterlimon   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 2516

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Posted 13 June 2013 - 11:29 AM

I think it would be fun to make quick decisions in situations of emergency, which might not work with a turn based approach.

 

What about a day-night system?

 

During 'day' (whatever that means in space), you run around in real time making short to mid term decisions, talking with your crew and reacting to random events that happen throughout the day. During the night, you assign crew tasks for the next day and perhaps plan ship route and make long term decisions etc.

Although slightly unrealistic, i would not interrupt the night with any events. The tasks you give your crew during night can of course be overriden or changed during the day as the situation changes. Its just that then you dont have to do everything manually every day, but can issue a command for 50 items to be moved to a different storage room during the next day using a more GUI-like interface.


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#24 Orymus3   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 8319

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Posted 13 June 2013 - 07:19 PM


Storeroom/equipment management, researches or basic production would be dealed by speaking to adequate persons (leading scientist, or quatermaster) where research/production/store management panels will appear, but still all related stuff (effects, possible researches etc) would be shown in those panels only after speaking with crew that can "have idea of research" or finished mission (loudspeakers calls captain to take mission report from team leader) that put in report all they found, and sometimes will speak more than they wrote. All reports, logs of what captain spoke with with peoples would be avalible from console at his desk, where from he would be also able to call each crew member to come to his desk).

 

Well, if you are referencing Star Trek, you'll notice the use of 'computer' (a voice-controlled interface) that allows to communicate directly with distant people and make specific commands.  Walking up to Lead Engineer Laforge in the middle of a Warp malfunction just to talk might not be the best way to go about this. Assuming bad events happen in your game, where time is sensitive, it would be wise to have some form of interface (Star Trek made a good use of a sound-based interface in that regard, something we rarely see in games) with which the player can quickly interact rather than discussion with potentially remote individual...

 


So what do You suggest? Is game concept bad, and it wont work this way, or game concept is ok, but i need to change/ work more on background story?

 

The concept can work, but your current adequation seems to imply there will be time-sensitive (action-oriented) events, whereas discussion is a good way to go more in-depth, when time allows (research and investigations for example). One of the key differences in TNG is that Picard is more of an investigator/politician than an actual captain. He represents Starfleet more than he commands his ship (not to say he doesn't do the latter at all). Unless you game is more in-line with that, I'd recommend, as per above, to supplement your concept with an easy-to-use interface to handle the basic actions one can take.

 


Just additionaly: The thing is that me, some of my friends and I think a lot of players are bored of all the games with each time bigger worlds, each time better graphics, and each time less of plot, dialoges etc. I remember Planescape Torment or Baldur's Gate and choosing from one of 10-15 dialog choices, while most of new games has max 2-3 of those. I want to make game, where you can really feel like part of the ship, with all of its good and bad sides. Thats the reason why i closed whole world in one ship, and trying to make a lot of choices, both important and minor ones, which only some crew members care of.

I'm not saying this is not a viable idea. I'm just trying to help you make coherent design decisions. If anything, I like the basic idea behind what you're trying to achieve, and I recognize that its filled with tough decisions on how to render that in a way that's interactive and easy to use yet fun to play and experience.



#25 Orymus3   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 8319

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Posted 13 June 2013 - 07:21 PM


Miniaturizing ship systems is strictly equivalent to increase the available space to install more systems, without significantly increasing cargo space; making them energy-efficient is strictly equivalent to increasing available power.

 

On that, I disagree. If ship mass or volume matters in say, fuel consumption, then miniaturization is strictly better than increasing ship volume (available space).

Likewise, if energy is created from using a raw resource (nuclear, fuel, whatever), then having a bigger output is less interesting than energy-efficient components.

 

I can see many other ways to differentiate these in ways that make room for interesting and strategic decisions.



#26 Zennoya   Members   -  Reputation: 178

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Posted 14 June 2013 - 01:20 AM


Well, if you are referencing Star Trek, you'll notice the use of 'computer' (a voice-controlled interface)

As I understand Youre talking about Commbadges ? The little stuff they wear at their uniforms? Yes, I was thinking of it already but as a possible as and event/research:

-  After first time captain cant be somewhere on time the event appears connected to one of technican that they should install intercoms around the ship, which after Captain agrees will be added to each room (or at room management console as wall equipment, so he can choose where to place them). After going to one of those, and interacting with it, complete list of crew members (i suppose 20-25 crew on the ship) will appear, and after clicking crew member same options as while speaking face to face would be avalible. After another period of time, another event will appear, that will enable research of commbadges, which will work same as intercoms, but instead of need of running to them in room youre at, a "Communication" button will be become visible bottom-right part of the screen and You will be able to use it everywhere (instead of events like going through nebulas etc, where communication and some other electronics will be disabled, and running will be required again). And after such nebula travel, another research would be avalible, where you will be able firstly to modify intercoms again, to be possible to use in nebula, and later commbadges too.
 

 

 


I'm not saying this is not a viable idea. I'm just trying to help you make coherent design decisions. If anything, I like the basic idea behind what you're trying to achieve, and I recognize that its filled with tough decisions on how to render that in a way that's interactive and easy to use yet fun to play and experience.

At beginning i wanted it to look like Sheppard commanding Normandy in Mass Effect, but now i think best way it would look is rather isometri/orthogonal view. At beginning i also wanted it to be real time, but after suggestions from TechnoGoth about staging and Waterlimon about day/night cycle, I've started to think about a turn based with action points (Fallout 1/2 or Jagged Alliance style but with much higher amount of action points). In this way I'll take best from staging (chance to plan actions, see what happens) but still with going out from desk, and going to crew. And i take best from day/night cycle, so I'll be sure not too many stuff happens durning the "night" where i cant react to it.

How do You guys (and girls) like this idea?

 

 

P.S. Do You guys(and girls) think I should change (if its possible) or ask some admin to change name of this topic? At this moment it goes into a bit other direction than drawing the spaceship tongue.png


Edited by Zennoya, 14 June 2013 - 02:18 AM.


#27 Orymus3   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 8319

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Posted 14 June 2013 - 06:38 AM


At beginning i wanted it to look like Sheppard commanding Normandy in Mass Effect, but now i think best way it would look is rather isometri/orthogonal view. At beginning i also wanted it to be real time, but after suggestions from TechnoGoth about staging and Waterlimon about day/night cycle, I've started to think about a turn based with action points (Fallout 1/2 or Jagged Alliance style but with much higher amount of action points). In this way I'll take best from staging (chance to plan actions, see what happens) but still with going out from desk, and going to crew. And i take best from day/night cycle, so I'll be sure not too many stuff happens durning the "night" where i cant react to it.

How do You guys (and girls) like this idea?

 

Given that it's not really a strategy game, I'd stick to real time, but give the ability to pause perhaps? (and still issue actions).

You could even base this off a stats of your avatar, where his leadership allows you to slow down for X units of time, with Y cooldown, allowing you to issue bursts of commands very quickly when necessary?



#28 Zennoya   Members   -  Reputation: 178

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Posted 14 June 2013 - 07:03 AM


Given that it's not really a strategy game,

Partialy it is, and partialy not. At this moment its actually hard to tell what is that -> It's adventure/strategy/spacesim/manager/rpg game tongue.png All i need to do now is to put captain on a bike so it will be sports game too smile.png

 

 

 


You could even base this off a stats of your avatar, where his leadership allows you to slow down for X units of time, with Y cooldown, allowing you to issue bursts of commands very quickly when necessary?

I need to admit that the Captain stats are the thing I havent even start working or thinking on, but with action points it would be even more possible to add those to avatar stats (f.e. agility would reduce action points needed to move, and charisma would reduce action points needed for social actions, ofcourse if captain would have such stats like agility or charisma).

 

 

 


I'd stick to real time, but give the ability to pause perhaps? (and still issue actions).

I think thats not good idea -> I mean, that real time even with a pause button gives a lot lot more pressure than an action-point tactical game, its obvious. And now Im thinking, IF someone would like to play a game, who it will be? I doubt that someone who decide play a game where he is managing ship, doing researches, talking with crew etc will like a pressure "holy sh*t! everything around explodes! press pause!press pause!aAAAHHH...". Nah, they would prefer to plan each step, count whats better etc, see what happens - i think action point based would fit it more, but im still open: how the rest of you guys (and girls) thinks ? Maybe Im wrong?

 

 

P.S. Also forgot to add, that I've decided to stop working on Ogre, and restarted my project on Unity3D.


Edited by Zennoya, 14 June 2013 - 07:40 AM.


#29 Orymus3   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 8319

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Posted 14 June 2013 - 09:29 AM


Partialy it is, and partialy not. At this moment its actually hard to tell what is that -> It's adventure/strategy/spacesim/manager/rpg game All i need to do now is to put captain on a bike so it will be sports game too

Apologies, by strategy I meant competitive strategy.

 


I think thats not good idea -> I mean, that real time even with a pause button gives a lot lot more pressure than an action-point tactical game, its obvious. And now Im thinking, IF someone would like to play a game, who it will be? I doubt that someone who decide play a game where he is managing ship, doing researches, talking with crew etc will like a pressure "holy sh*t! everything around explodes! press pause!press pause!aAAAHHH...". Nah, they would prefer to plan each step, count whats better etc, see what happens - i think action point based would fit it more, but im still open: how the rest of you guys (and girls) thinks ? Maybe Im wrong?

 

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#30 Acharis   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 3596

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Posted 14 June 2013 - 11:42 AM


I want to make game, where you can really feel like part of the ship, with all of its good and bad sides. Thats the reason why i closed whole world in one ship, and trying to make a lot of choices, both important and minor ones, which only some crew members care of.
Maybe you should make a game where you are not a captain but a crew member? Then you could have all this walking around and talking to others and making friends and random arbitrary events won't be that bothersome (because it's not player's reponsibility to fix the problem, it's captain's problem, yours is just to react properly and help).

 

What you want more? The management of a ship part or the feeling like a part of the crew part?


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#31 Orymus3   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 8319

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Posted 14 June 2013 - 02:44 PM

I doubt a basic crewmember could freely walk around. Surely, their duties would have them remain in specific areas (like an engineer affected to the engines would rarely go anywhere besides engines, cantina and quarters).



#32 Zennoya   Members   -  Reputation: 178

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Posted 14 June 2013 - 06:38 PM

Yeah, not too much action is ok, for players that dont like it, but doing a game about crew member... it would be too boring. By the way I just have another game idea -> first of its kind - noone did something like that before, and i doubt ever will. Imagine this -> Huge spacecruiser, 300 crew on board, middle of the war, middle of the battle, fight is going on, everyone are running, everything exploding, power shortages, and You inside of this mess... the janitor who needs to clean all toilets on board...






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