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#1 KarneeKarnay   Members   -  Reputation: 105

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 03:24 PM

I'm not sure where to start but I can summerise this post as a crisis of faith if anything. I just need some advice, because I have no idea what to do. 

 

I am a recent graduate from a UK University with a Games related Degree. I have applied for jobs for the last three months with little or no response. I am a part time employee of a Games Lab, but in the whole of last year, due to hours, I earned £34.89. I have been to two interviews. One for a QA Compliance tester, that I didn't get because I had no experience in Compliance(???). The other is part of the reason I'm writing this post today. I applied for a Mac Junior Games Developer position about a week ago. Not knowing what to expect other than that there will be some technical questions I went to the interview and encountered a problem I couldn't solve.

 

This is not the same, but It's close to the problem I had to solve (Imagine the c++ version). http://www.ardendertat.com/2011/10/31/programming-interview-questions-12-reverse-words-in-a-string/

 

The problem is that I had no idea. I have over two years of experience in C++, but I've never worked with something like this, beyond setting up for loops. That all my lecturer said I would need to know to get through. It was devastating. Three years of  study and I couldn't even answer a question like this, something I knew was basic, but had no knowledge on how to solve it. The guy was nice, but he and I knew that I wasn't going to get the job.  On the bright side I got engaged last weekend to my long term gf. (:D) So every silver lining. Then today happened. I went online to see if any news on my grades had come. During the last year of my course  I had to create a project worth twice as much as anything else I had that year. I spent months working late into the night on the game and report. (Oddly the report was worth twice as much as the game.). I didn't come home for three days due to the work. Today I found out I got a D- on the project. 

 

I'm... I don't know how to describe it. It feels like the last three years of my life have been worthless. Programming is something I've always wanted to do, making games has been my dream since I was a kid, yet I don't even think I can do that. I want to know how to move on. I want to know how to change and get better.

 

I don't know how to end this post. I need some advice any advice. This is life, I know that. I just wish I knew what to do. 



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#2 Shippou   Members   -  Reputation: 1471

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 04:02 PM

Congratulations - you have taken a completely irrelevant college course .

 Unfortunately "Game Design" will not get you a job, unless you know how to code. In the future go for "software engineering", or "computer science" .


 Reactions To Technologies:
1. Anything that is in the world when you’re born is normal and ordinary and is just a natural part of the way the world works.
2. Anything that's invented between when you’re fifteen and thirty-five is new and exciting and revolutionary and you can probably get a career in it.
3. Anything invented after you're thirty-five is against the natural order of things.

- Douglas Adams 2002


 


#3 KarneeKarnay   Members   -  Reputation: 105

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 04:07 PM

Congratulations - you have taken a completely irrelevant college course .

 Unfortunately "Game Design" will not get you a job, unless you know how to code. In the future go for "software engineering", or "computer science" .

 

I suppose I deserve that. The course was Games Technology and is meant to be a sub-choice of Computer Science from what I know. Any advice on where I go from here? (I can not go back to university, I simply can't afford to.) 



#4 Shippou   Members   -  Reputation: 1471

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 04:10 PM

 

Congratulations - you have taken a completely irrelevant college course .

 Unfortunately "Game Design" will not get you a job, unless you know how to code. In the future go for "software engineering", or "computer science" .

 

I suppose I deserve that. The course was Games Technology and is meant to be a sub-choice of Computer Science from what I know. Any advice on where I go from here? (I can not go back to university, I simply can't afford to.) 

 

 Learn to code on your own time ? Currently there is demand for web developers who know Javascript / HTML5 / RUBY / PHP ( and you can use web pages you create as part of your resume ) .


 Reactions To Technologies:
1. Anything that is in the world when you’re born is normal and ordinary and is just a natural part of the way the world works.
2. Anything that's invented between when you’re fifteen and thirty-five is new and exciting and revolutionary and you can probably get a career in it.
3. Anything invented after you're thirty-five is against the natural order of things.

- Douglas Adams 2002


 


#5 KarneeKarnay   Members   -  Reputation: 105

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 04:12 PM

 Learn to code on your own time ? Currently there is demand for web developers who know Javascript / HTML5 / RUBY / PHP ( and you can use web pages you create as part of your resume ) .

 

 

 

Any idea where to start.? I still want to develop games. 



#6 Shippou   Members   -  Reputation: 1471

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 04:16 PM

 Your not going to get a "game" job for quite some time ... I would HIGHLY recommend learning JavaScript - you can create games on the "canvas" once you learn the basics.

Here is a link for a decent learning site for JS.


Edited by Shippou, 11 July 2013 - 04:17 PM.

 Reactions To Technologies:
1. Anything that is in the world when you’re born is normal and ordinary and is just a natural part of the way the world works.
2. Anything that's invented between when you’re fifteen and thirty-five is new and exciting and revolutionary and you can probably get a career in it.
3. Anything invented after you're thirty-five is against the natural order of things.

- Douglas Adams 2002


 


#7 Run Cycle Media   Members   -  Reputation: 157

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 05:47 PM

Unity seems to be huge, as well as Construct 2. These are game making programs that simplify things big time, so even a big dummy like me can use them. They are, however, streamlined and can export to multiple platforms. As a result, many companies seem to be using them (at least in California).

 

If you want to make games, you have to start by making games?

 

I'm just getting into this too... but these are about the same pieces of advice I'd give an aspiring animator, something I'm much more acquainted with.

 

(And yeah, my animation curriculum in college was a joke.)



#8 Tom Sloper   Moderators   -  Reputation: 9690

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 09:50 PM

Karnee,

I moved your post to the Game Industry Job Advice board, since you're looking for, well, advice about getting a job in the game industry.

So you got a D- on your final project. That sucks. But you graduated, you got the degree.  Now you need to apply yourself and improve.  It's very hard to look beyond how hard you worked on that project and see flaws in what you did, but you very much need to do that.  And then (perhaps even harder) you need to be able to honestly talk about what you did wrong in college and what you've learned about yourself and how you've worked on that flaw.

 

That's going to take time.  You need to get work in the meantime.  QA is an acceptable entry pathway, but you tried for advanced QA (not entry-level QA).  Read up on QA and how to break into the industry in this forum's FAQ (many of those links point you to articles I wrote, either on my site or on IGDA.org). 

http://www.gamedev.net/page/reference/faq.php/_/breaking-into-the-industry-r16

http://sloperama.com/advice/lesson5.htm


-- Tom Sloper
Sloperama Productions
Making games fun and getting them done.
www.sloperama.com

Please do not PM me. My email address is easy to find, but note that I do not give private advice.

#9 Orymus3   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 8278

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 10:31 PM

“I failed in some subjects in exam, but my friend passed in all. Now he is an engineer in Microsoft and I am the owner of Microsoft.” - Bill Gates

"I've missed more than 9000 shots in my career. I've lost almost 300 games. 26 times, I've been trusted to take the game winning shot and missed. I've failed over and over and over again in my life. And that is why I succeed." - Michael Jordan
 

Also ties in well with a Star Trek TNG episodes where Captain Jean-Luc Picard is shown why not to regret failure.

 

So what, you've failed, many times in a row.
What's important now is how you plan to get back up, and how you utilize the knowledge you've just leaved. And no, whining down to us doesn't mean you've learned something.

 

I won't tell you the amount of times I went back home thinking everything was over. The morning after, everything was still grey, but as I stepped out of the bed, I convinced myself 'you know what? It's gonna be a great day... even if I must squeeze it until it is'

 

What you need to do NOW, is start coding, and forget about the school. Look up tutorials with various languages/engines. Code snippets, make something work.

When you have something built and working well, start another thing.

Before long the 'doing' part will become a habit, and you'll start to wonder on what you'll do next more than how to do it. That's when you'll realize you've learned what you need to learn.

There's no magic to compensate for hard work :)



#10 KarneeKarnay   Members   -  Reputation: 105

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Posted 12 July 2013 - 06:01 AM

 Your not going to get a "game" job for quite some time ... I would HIGHLY recommend learning JavaScript - you can create games on the "canvas" once you learn the basics.

Here is a link for a decent learning site for JS.

 

Thanks. I've seen this website before. It's a good refresher. 

 

Unity seems to be huge, as well as Construct 2. These are game making programs that simplify things big time, so even a big dummy like me can use them. They are, however, streamlined and can export to multiple platforms. As a result, many companies seem to be using them (at least in California).

 

If you want to make games, you have to start by making games?

 

I'm just getting into this too... but these are about the same pieces of advice I'd give an aspiring animator, something I'm much more acquainted with.

 

(And yeah, my animation curriculum in college was a joke.)

 

Unity is something I have used in the past. When I get the chance I'll make a real push to do something with it. Maybe pong?

 

Karnee,

I moved your post to the Game Industry Job Advice board, since you're looking for, well, advice about getting a job in the game industry.

So you got a D- on your final project. That sucks. But you graduated, you got the degree.  Now you need to apply yourself and improve.  It's very hard to look beyond how hard you worked on that project and see flaws in what you did, but you very much need to do that.  And then (perhaps even harder) you need to be able to honestly talk about what you did wrong in college and what you've learned about yourself and how you've worked on that flaw.

 

That's going to take time.  You need to get work in the meantime.  QA is an acceptable entry pathway, but you tried for advanced QA (not entry-level QA).  Read up on QA and how to break into the industry in this forum's FAQ (many of those links point you to articles I wrote, either on my site or on IGDA.org). 

http://www.gamedev.net/page/reference/faq.php/_/breaking-into-the-industry-r16

http://sloperama.com/advice/lesson5.htm

 

Sorry for posting this in the wrong place. I consider myself to be my own worst critic. That project was bad. The game was terrible and if it taught me anything it taught me how not to program. I've tried applying for QA, but in the UK there just seems to be a smaller games industry. I'll keep trying and I'll keep coding. 

 

“I failed in some subjects in exam, but my friend passed in all. Now he is an engineer in Microsoft and I am the owner of Microsoft.” - Bill Gates

"I've missed more than 9000 shots in my career. I've lost almost 300 games. 26 times, I've been trusted to take the game winning shot and missed. I've failed over and over and over again in my life. And that is why I succeed." - Michael Jordan
 

Also ties in well with a Star Trek TNG episodes where Captain Jean-Luc Picard is shown why not to regret failure.

 

So what, you've failed, many times in a row.
What's important now is how you plan to get back up, and how you utilize the knowledge you've just leaved. And no, whining down to us doesn't mean you've learned something.

 

I won't tell you the amount of times I went back home thinking everything was over. The morning after, everything was still grey, but as I stepped out of the bed, I convinced myself 'you know what? It's gonna be a great day... even if I must squeeze it until it is'

 

What you need to do NOW, is start coding, and forget about the school. Look up tutorials with various languages/engines. Code snippets, make something work.

When you have something built and working well, start another thing.

Before long the 'doing' part will become a habit, and you'll start to wonder on what you'll do next more than how to do it. That's when you'll realize you've learned what you need to learn.

There's no magic to compensate for hard work smile.png

 

Sorry. I didn't mean to whine. This post was kinda cathartic for me. I have no one to speak to about this, so I turned to the internet (Forever Alone :P). In honesty I feel a lot better since i wrote this. I have to say it's partly what you guys have told me and what you cover in this post. I want to move on and sitting around doing nothing isn't going to help me do that. Right now I'm working on app that I aim to have finished soon. After that I'm going to  move on and do something I want. I need to get back to designing games and I intend to do so with relish. Thankyou all the by the way. I appreciate everything that you've told me. 



#11 Tom Sloper   Moderators   -  Reputation: 9690

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Posted 12 July 2013 - 08:31 AM


I've tried applying for QA, but in the UK there just seems to be a smaller games industry.

 

You have drawn the wrong conclusion from your experiences.

Read http://sloperama.com/advice/lesson5.htm and http://sloperama.com/advice/lesson24.htm - then revise the conclusions you should draw from your previous experiences.

Again: look beyond how hard you tried to apply for QA jobs before, stop thinking that the problem is the UK job market, and see the real flaws in what you did.


Edited by Tom Sloper, 12 July 2013 - 08:32 AM.

-- Tom Sloper
Sloperama Productions
Making games fun and getting them done.
www.sloperama.com

Please do not PM me. My email address is easy to find, but note that I do not give private advice.

#12 Orymus3   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 8278

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Posted 12 July 2013 - 10:31 AM


I've tried applying for QA, but in the UK there just seems to be a smaller games industry

 

So "small" in fact that they're starting to open offices in eastern Canada because they lack the necessary workforce locally?



#13 KarneeKarnay   Members   -  Reputation: 105

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Posted 12 July 2013 - 01:30 PM

 


I've tried applying for QA, but in the UK there just seems to be a smaller games industry.

 

You have drawn the wrong conclusion from your experiences.

Read http://sloperama.com/advice/lesson5.htm and http://sloperama.com/advice/lesson24.htm - then revise the conclusions you should draw from your previous experiences.

Again: look beyond how hard you tried to apply for QA jobs before, stop thinking that the problem is the UK job market, and see the real flaws in what you did.

 

 

Just finished reading them. That's some interesting stuff. I'll look try things differently next time. 

 

 


I've tried applying for QA, but in the UK there just seems to be a smaller games industry

 

So "small" in fact that they're starting to open offices in eastern Canada because they lack the necessary workforce locally?

 

 

I'm just calling it as I see it. I'm happy to be proved wrong. :)






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