Jump to content

  • Log In with Google      Sign In   
  • Create Account

Do Denmark discriminate foreigners?


Old topic!
Guest, the last post of this topic is over 60 days old and at this point you may not reply in this topic. If you wish to continue this conversation start a new topic.

  • You cannot reply to this topic
40 replies to this topic

#21 patrrr   Members   -  Reputation: 1007

Posted 05 August 2013 - 12:56 PM

I  took an SAS (Scandanavian Airlines) flight from London to Copenhagen last year.  As the passengers were settling in and the cabin checks were underway, the steward came on the intercom and announced that because it was an international flight, service would be in both languages, English and Scandanavian.  Further proof that Swedish and Danish are the same.

 

Many Swedes don't understand Danish, so the Danes usually have to speak English. Danes tend to understand Swedish though. So maybe that's what "Scandinavian" was referring to.


Edited by patrrr, 05 August 2013 - 12:58 PM.


Sponsor:

#22 Dwarf King   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 1856

Posted 05 August 2013 - 01:04 PM

 

I  took an SAS (Scandanavian Airlines) flight from London to Copenhagen last year.  As the passengers were settling in and the cabin checks were underway, the steward came on the intercom and announced that because it was an international flight, service would be in both languages, English and Scandanavian.  Further proof that Swedish and Danish are the same.

 

Many Swedes don't understand Danish, so the Danes usually have to speak English. Danes tend to understand Swedish though. So maybe that's what "Scandinavian" was referring to.

 

It is mandatory for Danish high schools to read some Swedish and Norwegian texts and talk about the difference between the Scandinavian languages. Also "not understand" does not mean not able to read as the writing is very similar with small difference here and there.

 

I mostly see people from Northern Sweden having issues with understanding Danish or Southern Swedish while people from Southern Sweden would have an easier time when speaking slowly. Also after an hour or so we have adopted some of each others differences and start speaking a hybrid of the "two languages". It helps drink a beer or two(folköl). Lol smile.png


Edited by Dwarf King, 05 August 2013 - 01:05 PM.

"The only thing that interferes with my learning is my education"

Albert Einstein

"It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education"

Albert Einstein

 


#23 Dwarf King   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 1856

Posted 05 August 2013 - 01:07 PM


Or another way of saying it, they only know how to tighten the laws until we all suffocate.. or at least it feels like this..

 

Well I sure ain't waiting for that to happen. EU is big and so is the world so to say :)


"The only thing that interferes with my learning is my education"

Albert Einstein

"It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education"

Albert Einstein

 


#24 tstrimple   Prime Members   -  Reputation: 1718

Posted 05 August 2013 - 02:00 PM

I guess all I can say to this is "first world problems". If this is what you have to be upset about, congratulations. You have a blessed life!



#25 Vilem Otte   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 1424

Posted 05 August 2013 - 03:05 PM

I can just say, get live with it. The bureaucracy is a hell, and believe me I live in one of the most bureaucratic countries in whole world. In reality, in my country you can't even build anything (not even car park) on your own land without giving bureaucrats information about what are you building. Hell you can't even buy any stuff for you company, without registering it in tax return and giving that to bureaucrats. And the funny thing in our country is, we got a law, then notice modifying the law and most probably also notice modifying the notice - although the bureaucrats doesn't even know laws and notices, a little example.

 

I moved in my country and wanted to change my "permanent residence" - so I had to get a new ID card. The problem is, I couldn't (according to girl at the bureaucracy building) ask for new ID card on the bureau in the town I live now (e.g. where I have the permanent residence), but I have to travel to my old permanent residence and ask for a new ID card there.

 

Fine, so I drove 200km just to get my new ID card, and guess what happened - according to notice modifying the law, they weren't allowed to give me new ID card, as I have to contact bureau at my new permanent residence place, they contact bureau at my old permanent residence place and ask them for new data. Then I have to wait 6 weeks for them to "create" my new ID card and then for no known reason I have to pick it up at my OLD permanent residence place. Wow Sherlock. (Yeah, half year later I even realized I don't have to pick it up and in next 4 weeks they will mail me new ID card)

 

But as time goes, I'm kinda used to this - and except for this, worthless politics and hot weather, I love living in my country - I still wouldn't change it biggrin.png (We're not a totalistic system or so, this level of bureaucracy is here since Maria Theresa. biggrin.png)

 

Although I'd like to notice, that bureaucracy like this isn't always really bad. You can get a lot of important information from the bureaus here (like flood maps, etc.) - which is considered advantage. Especially if you're planning to move. Although buying a car is really a bit of hell (getting car ID or such can take few weeks and hours in bureaus, good thing is, you can drive with temporary ID until you get permanent one).

 

tl;dr Just get used to this like mistakes, bureaucracy and generally government idiocy - it won't end. And more importantly, rather enjoy life and ignore the politics, bureaucrats, etc. - they're just true evil.


Edited by Vilem Otte, 05 August 2013 - 03:06 PM.

My current blog on programming, linux and stuff - http://gameprogrammerdiary.blogspot.com


#26 Dwarf King   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 1856

Posted 05 August 2013 - 03:37 PM


Just get used to this like mistakes, bureaucracy and generally government idiocy - it won't end. And more importantly, rather enjoy life and ignore the politics, bureaucrats, etc.

 

I guess you are right. I keep telling myself this. Still a letter like that can really spoil a good morning and make one explode in an inferno of particles with datablocks I guess...

 

200km you said? I would be rather pissed about that...


"The only thing that interferes with my learning is my education"

Albert Einstein

"It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education"

Albert Einstein

 


#27 Memories are Better   Prime Members   -  Reputation: 769

Posted 05 August 2013 - 04:15 PM

Slight derail, Danish politics is quite boring (still considered the least corrupt in the world though), British politics is where it's entertaining, im yet to come across another country with such an entertaining government. I am not talking about the media rage either, all the events and actions that will affect you are 100% live and public (which makes you wonder the purpose of the media in regards to politics), a lot of countries already do this but none are popcorn worthy as the House of Commons.

 

Saying that Denmark usually scores first or second with New Zealand on the CPI, so chances are if you really are pissed and want to make a difference, make some noise and start lobbying. It is easy to think the system is broken etc, but once you get deeply into it you will find politics and law making are a lot more complex and involved than simply smacktalking and dinners with the rich at the Dorchester



#28 Vilem Otte   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 1424

Posted 05 August 2013 - 04:21 PM

Yeah, I definitely agree that I wouldn't be calm either - I'd just complain about idiotic government and bureaucracy for a day at least. But after some time, it is just better to laugh at it (in a manner "what idiotic laws we (people) have created").

 

I was quite pissed off that I had to drive across half of my country two times (and when I realized I didn't have to drive at all ... rather no words) - but from today perspective I take it just as a funny joke, that some of our laws and notices are just way too dumb.

 

In my opinion it is better to take it from funny perspective, than stress about it.

 

Edit: To Dynamo_Maestro: When it comes to our politics, the fun begins. One of our parties once bought Casa planes for 182 967 127 USD, under very strange conditions and the planes were somehow "stealth" (there were actually no planes at all - well, maybe some politics bought new planes biggrin.png). The same party also builds tunnel (1.4km, 550 meters mint), that actually wasn't ever half completed and work is stopped (they need *more* money), but it cost 1 841 436 000 USD (several times more expensive, than equivalent FINISHED tunnel). Etc. etc. - I bet you all have the same cases in your country. And surprise, you actually can't do anything about it (plus according to our law, the highest court decided that as long as it is discussed in parliament, it is *legal* (because of politics immunity) - I could just laugh after that).

 

All in all, I guess we should all start being politics in my country, what do you think? biggrin.png


Edited by Vilem Otte, 05 August 2013 - 04:38 PM.

My current blog on programming, linux and stuff - http://gameprogrammerdiary.blogspot.com


#29 SymLinked   Members   -  Reputation: 867

Posted 05 August 2013 - 05:36 PM

Coming from Sweden where they don't enforce this policy to the same extent (though it does exist) I think it's a good thing. Not being able to talk the same language as the local populace segregates the population and creates problems where there shouldn't be any.

But one can't say this in public here, or you'll get called a patriot (which isn't a good thing in Sweden) or nazi.

 

 

 


got it because his mother is a Swedish citizen. Now I have lived for 7 years in Sweden and no gov sent us such a letter regarding our daughter as they see Danish and Swedish like almost the same language. It is actually.

I  took an SAS (Scandanavian Airlines) flight from London to Copenhagen last year.  As the passengers were settling in and the cabin checks were underway, the steward came on the intercom and announced that because it was an international flight, service would be in both languages, English and Scandanavian.  Further proof that Swedish and Danish are the same.

Hehe. I thought you were French, how would you know if Swedish and Danish are the same? (They're not)

 

I live in Östergötland which is in the middle-southern parts of Sweden and most people here can't understand Danish very well though it seems the Danes in Copenhagen speak a more similiar language than the ones from southern Denmark. I understand a few words myself but I can't understand full sentences.


Edited by SymLinked, 05 August 2013 - 05:43 PM.


#30 Servant of the Lord   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 19572

Posted 05 August 2013 - 07:16 PM

I bet you all have the same cases in your country. And surprise, you actually can't do anything about it (plus according to our law, the highest court decided that as long as it is discussed in parliament, it is *legal* (because of politics immunity) - I could just laugh after that).

 

In the United States, when the president does it, that means it's not illegalwink.png


It's perfectly fine to abbreviate my username to 'Servant' rather than copy+pasting it all the time.
All glory be to the Man at the right hand... On David's throne the King will reign, and the Government will rest upon His shoulders. All the earth will see the salvation of God.
Of Stranger Flames - [indie turn-based rpg set in a para-historical French colony] | Indie RPG development journal

[Fly with me on Twitter] [Google+] [My broken website]

[Need web hosting? I personally like A Small Orange]


#31 samoth   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 4783

Posted 06 August 2013 - 02:02 AM

And surprise, you actually can't do anything about it (plus according to our law, the highest court decided that as long as it is discussed in parliament, it is *legal* (because of politics immunity) - I could just laugh after that).

 

Actually you can do something, you can elect a socialist (or social democratic) government. They'll take care of that biggrin.png  Though, honestly, I'd advise against doing so.

 

Look at France where they've been dragging Sarkozy to court this year for something he allegedly did while being under immunity. What's ridiculous in my opinion is that there is a law which grants you immunity while you're president (or minister, to the same effect). You can agree or not agree whether that's a good thing, but this is the law. So what the socialists do is simply this: They wait until the period of immunity is over and then retrospectively pursue him. What a perversion of the law.

 

But of course that's no more perverted than giving the A63 (the most important autoroute to Spain) which has been built from tax payer's money to a privately held company which subsequently charges tax payers with outrageous fees for using what's rightfully theirs. Mitterand gave away the southern half in 1984, Hollande gave away the northern half in 2013. All power to the people, comrades!

Alas, such is the downside of having a socialist government. Total corruption, high taxes, record unemployment, economy moving abroad.



#32 Dwarf King   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 1856

Posted 06 August 2013 - 05:26 AM


Coming from Sweden where they don't enforce this policy to the same extent (though it does exist) I think it's a good thing. Not being able to talk the same language as the local populace segregates the population and creates problems where there shouldn't be any.

 

Sweden got plenty of areas where Swedish is not the fist language. You got the samir people who has their own language. You got a Finish minority as well. Of course the Swedish gov cannot enforce this policy. That would be foolish to do so. Here click me learn something about your great nation. Sweden is a awesome place to be as a bilingual person. Sweden even acknowledge double citizenship, which has been a great thing for many fellow European citizens who worked, lived in Sweden and/or married Swedish people.  

 

Oh and their is nothing wrong in being a patriot. Hence nazi != patriot. Patriots are allowed to like other cultures as well while the bad word mentioned before had some serious issues with democracy and human rights.


"The only thing that interferes with my learning is my education"

Albert Einstein

"It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education"

Albert Einstein

 


#33 MarkS   Prime Members   -  Reputation: 882

Posted 06 August 2013 - 10:31 AM

There is something to be said for national and cultural identity. Wanting to maintain that isn't racist or bigoted or discriminatory. I wouldn't dare move to another country and then presume to think that I can live there and not assimilate. I would have started learning the language and culture the moment I decided to make the move. I wouldn't stop learning until I mastered the language and the culture felt second nature.

Edited by MarkS, 06 August 2013 - 10:31 AM.


#34 Vilem Otte   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 1424

Posted 06 August 2013 - 11:45 AM

Actually you can do something, you can elect a socialist (or social democratic) government. They'll take care of that biggrin.png  Though, honestly, I'd advise against doing so.

 

We had a socialist party few years back - suprisingly, same old story all the time. Once there is money for politics, there is no law, no nation, no nothing - just money. Although pursuing someone after the immunity period is over and then judge him (for stuff he did while he was under politics immunity) is basically "raping" the law.

 

The worst thing in our country is, that I've chosen the non-socialist (capitalist?) party, that promised not to raise taxes, support the companies and freelancers, etc. And what we got, they twice increased VAT (and we got one of the highest in Europe right now), also increased the income tax (which destroys small companies like I am), increased social insurance (for paying gypsies in our country, that doesn't work and get more money than people that do manual work), and increased taxes for gas.

Basically they did nothing else, they didn't even try to integrate the gypsies into society (which I think is one of the most important "social" things right now, and I know of few that integrated quite well and are very polite people), they didn't create a single work place (just hardened the conditions for freelancers and companies (except huge companies), thus destroying thousands of places), and sold basically anything that worked to companies - but underrated (one man recieved flats for like 200 000 people for 0 money, of course he is connected to government ... but wow, the anti-corruption police didn't even notice).

 

I think this is the problem in all Europe countries, either you choose left, right, middle or whatever larger party, they will do the same. Just corruption, money and worse conditions for everyone (like F.e. minimal wage for people in my country is 308 EUR that is kinda strong, as prices are basically same as everywhere - I'm glad that I've got a degree). Of course minimal wage was frozen when socialistic party was in charge (of course never unfreezed). It's just meh - for next elections I can't even decide whom to give my vote, maybe I'll just try to help some smaller party - to let them do the show.


Edited by Vilem Otte, 06 August 2013 - 11:46 AM.

My current blog on programming, linux and stuff - http://gameprogrammerdiary.blogspot.com


#35 Dwarf King   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 1856

Posted 06 August 2013 - 01:07 PM

Their is one thing that buggers me about many of the comments here(not all). It seems to me that many claim to wanting to learn how to speak a country's language and assimilate if they ever should move to a foreign country, but in reality I have met plenty of western people like me(as a western I meant, I did actually pick up the language Chinese) in China who never ever picked up the language Chinese. I also know for sure that many engineers working in the middle-east for oil companies never learn these regions' languages. In fact the majority of expats stay behind walls with their wife/husband and kids and rarely mingle with the native population in their everyday life.

 

It seems that we still live in a world of fear for people with a different language or even just a different accent. Sad stuff indeed, sad and intolerant I must say. 

 

 

edit: typing mistakes, corrected a sentence that did not explain it well.


Edited by Dwarf King, 17 August 2013 - 08:06 AM.

"The only thing that interferes with my learning is my education"

Albert Einstein

"It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education"

Albert Einstein

 


#36 MarkS   Prime Members   -  Reputation: 882

Posted 06 August 2013 - 01:39 PM

Sad stuff indeed, sad and intolerant I must say.


It is intolerant to live in fear of those that are different from you. It is not intolerant to expect those moving to your country to at least try. Some people have a hard time learning a new language. My problem is with those that don't try.

#37 Dwarf King   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 1856

Posted 06 August 2013 - 02:31 PM

I have lived in two countries now and in that two countries no government ever showed such an arrogance as my own motherland has done in these years to their guests and expats. I dare say that the manner and tone of the letter does not even sound like an offer. The word "must" is used here.

 

I find it disturbing that so many people think it in order that a gov can survey and force foreigners' kids in kindergarten with language and culture as an argument. I find it even more disturbing that people actually buy the argument about lower crime rates if only the kids are sent to kindergarten. The lack of critical sense when a government obviously do not respect a family's right to not use a kindergarten for their kids and instead take care of it until school age reached is getting close to what totalitarian states like North Korea would do.

 

Not even China would enforce such a law upon its people.  Perhaps more liberal art classes are needed after all. Perhaps more classes about sociology and texts like Man's Right and Common Sense by Thomas Paine is needed here after all. Math and programming is not enough to keep a society free from dictatorship. Freedom and democracy are fragile in these years indeed. 

 

However, I am deeply grateful for all your inputs as they have been very useful.

 

Also to show how big an image issue we have now try to google "denmark and foreigners". It ain't pretty at all and I am a little bit embarrassed about it I must say :)

Here is some stuff I got from page one and two, one can find more:

http://somethingmanky.blogspot.dk/2008/09/foreigners-leaving-denmark-in-record.html

http://cphpost.dk/commentary/cph-post-voices/christian-values-time-earn-your-foreigners-denmark

http://hejsonderborg.dk/whats-it-like-living-in-denmark-as-a-foreigner-part-12/

http://www.worktrotter.dk/blog/2010/10/03/6-danesopen.html

http://www.danielpipes.org/comments/18847

 

Now I ain't saying we are all bad but even official institutions claims that we have an image issue now so those links aren't completely wrong about(some are perhaps a little harsh in their critics) . I also read that because of our bad image we lost many millions in tourism revenue as many tourists prefer Sweden and Norway. I guess it ain't free to be hooked up on a paranoid world view. Of course all nations can find bad reviews abot themselves but Denmark is really a small nation so our image should be much better and the links do show how some foreigners living in our country look upon us after all.

 

Well that was it. Once again thanks for all the great inputs.

 

Edit: removed a quote as it should not be a part of this post. And added the google stuff.


Edited by Dwarf King, 06 August 2013 - 05:52 PM.

"The only thing that interferes with my learning is my education"

Albert Einstein

"It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education"

Albert Einstein

 


#38 Katie   Members   -  Reputation: 1332

Posted 07 August 2013 - 07:37 AM

"Also the employment rate ain't going down just because they force an American family's 3 years old child in kindergarten."

 

I suspect what they are trying to avoid is kids arriving for entry at school with little or no native language ability. The kids don't have to go to kindergarten to learn it, but they do have to have a language assessment to make sure they're ready; and the letter included mention of language tuition if they're not.

 

I think it's heading off the problem we have in the UK, where it's not unusual for a class of 30 kids to have a dozen languages between them and half the class not speak enough English. And that means that the entire class is slowed down while things are either done multi-lingally or kids pick up enough English to get by.

 

And they'll just have sent it to everyone in the category that matched. Chill. My government sent me a tax bill for two thousand pounds last week and when I phoned up they said "Oops. Yeah.. don't pay that. That was a mistake..."

 

Systems screw up sometimes.

 

 

 

"That language test a lot of my Dane friends cannot pass."

 

Yeah, well, I keep failing the British citizenship test :-)

 

It's full of stupid things like needing to know how many muslims live in the UK and the dates of bizarre acts of parliament.

 

Whereas I'm British because I know not to talk or make eye-contact on the tube...



#39 Dwarf King   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 1856

Posted 07 August 2013 - 09:45 AM


Systems screw up sometimes.

 

Indeed they do, and the very day the right wing in Denmark got it hands down the chest of power our system malfunctioned biiiig time.

 

I have met smart and bright PhD Asian students on contract with Danish universities that were married to Danes who had to show up for monthly meetings to show a social worker that they were indeed taking an active part in the assimilation process in order not to get their visa cancelled(I must say that I had a hard time believing in this the first time I heard it). 

 

It ain't nice words these families have to say about that system.

 

 

 

 


It's full of stupid things like needing to know how many muslims live in the UK and the dates of bizarre acts of parliament.

 

That is my point here, some arrogant elite think they decide what knowledge inside your brain determines whether you are British/Danish or not. Being British/Danish/insert a nation is not something the elite defines. We the individual people defines what it means to be a(insert nationality here).

 

The political elite has gone too far this time by dictating what we shall know and feel like.

 

I say get out of our private life and heads to all politicians. They should do some real work like others instead of standing and telling people what they should feel like, eat and drink etc.

 

I am all feed up with "smart" persons with so called good ideas and only do all the talking, hence politicians and all their pawns blindly carrying out their commands. 

 

This can't go on forever. Sooner or later too many people will say enough and slam the door when they leave. Social Engineering will fail if enforced too forcefully.

 

2000  pounds... Well that is a fine amount of cash. In Denmark not even a phone call could fix this. Tax here is famous for not being easy to deal with. We just had a whole tax department for special investigation closed down due to abuse of power and wrong accusation against citizens they meant were breaking the law and threaten them into paying by confiscate their cars, properties etc. without any court decisions etc. That department had some nasty "fun" for some years before it was closed by the Tax minister.


Edited by Dwarf King, 07 August 2013 - 12:58 PM.

"The only thing that interferes with my learning is my education"

Albert Einstein

"It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education"

Albert Einstein

 


#40 SymLinked   Members   -  Reputation: 867

Posted 07 August 2013 - 06:35 PM

 


Coming from Sweden where they don't enforce this policy to the same extent (though it does exist) I think it's a good thing. Not being able to talk the same language as the local populace segregates the population and creates problems where there shouldn't be any.
 

 

Sweden got plenty of areas where Swedish is not the fist language. You got the samir people who has their own language. You got a Finish minority as well. Of course the Swedish gov cannot enforce this policy. That would be foolish to do so. Here click me learn something about your great nation. Sweden is a awesome place to be as a bilingual person. Sweden even acknowledge double citizenship, which has been a great thing for many fellow European citizens who worked, lived in Sweden and/or married Swedish people.  

 

Oh and their is nothing wrong in being a patriot. Hence nazi != patriot. Patriots are allowed to like other cultures as well while the bad word mentioned before had some serious issues with democracy and human rights.

 

All I'm saying is that I think it's good that immigrants learn the language of the nation they move to. We get a lot of immigrants here that don't work and stay in their groups and never learn a single word of Swedish. Of course we get a lot of immigrants that don't, too.

Nothing wrong with being a patriot, no. But in Sweden it isn't something you say out loud. In some cases showing the flag or singing the national amthem can be considered rasist too. I'm sure you know of Rosengård. Try showing yourself there with the flag and you'll get lynched. tongue.png






Old topic!
Guest, the last post of this topic is over 60 days old and at this point you may not reply in this topic. If you wish to continue this conversation start a new topic.



PARTNERS