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Most Widely Used Programming Language (for games)


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#21 ApochPiQ   Moderators   -  Reputation: 15091

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Posted 26 December 2013 - 12:26 PM

C++11 is responsible for the "nightmare" portion of my statement. Everything prior is the "piece of shit."

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#22 dejaime   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 4003

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Posted 27 December 2013 - 12:13 PM

C++ is very good, despite all the hatred, usually fueled by frustration or sometimes inexperience.
C# is one that should not be overlooked.
Lua, Python and other scripting languages, for rapid development of simpler games.
GameMaker, Stencyl, Construct2, and similar.
HTML5 is growing and promising.
Haxe, Torque2D, or any other gamedev specialized tools.
 
The only important thing is being able to create a game using something.
What you used won't really matter that much in the end, on a playable game.

Edited by dejaime, 27 December 2013 - 12:14 PM.


#23 ApochPiQ   Moderators   -  Reputation: 15091

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Posted 27 December 2013 - 02:53 PM

C++ is very good, despite all the hatred, usually fueled by frustration or sometimes inexperience.



Lulz.


People who like C++ typically are the ones lacking experience in other languages and development paradigms.

#24 SimonForsman   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 6060

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Posted 27 December 2013 - 03:50 PM

 

C++ is very good, despite all the hatred, usually fueled by frustration or sometimes inexperience.



Lulz.


People who like C++ typically are the ones lacking experience in other languages and development paradigms.

 

 

Or lacking experience with C++, on the surface it doesn't look that bad and most of the problems caused by incorrect usage are hidden from the programmer (until a user sends in a cryptic crash report or that fancy server application you wrote got hacked using a buffer overrun), heck a significant portion of all bugs and security flaws in todays software, written by professionals with years of experience would have easily been avoided had they used a different language. (Yes, C++ has its advantages for low level code and has gotten better in recent years, sometimes it is even the best option available but its not a perfect language)


Edited by SimonForsman, 27 December 2013 - 04:02 PM.

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#25 dejaime   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 4003

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Posted 27 December 2013 - 05:21 PM

 

C++ is very good, despite all the hatred, usually fueled by frustration or sometimes inexperience.



Lulz.


People who like C++ typically are the ones lacking experience in other languages and development paradigms.

 

Not really,

 

I've hated C++ for about two years. I only had experience with Java, C# and scripting languages.

But I was faced with a job that required C++ and was forced to learn it.

 

Aside from C++, I have experience in Java, C#, Prolog (for specific applications), PHP, Java Script, COBOL (only maintenance of an old-but-running system).

Languages I learned as hobby are Ruby (as I thought it would be the next big thing), Perl (good old times of Ragnarok Online bots), Haxe (only recently).

 

And in my opinion, C++ is not a monster.

But yeah, I lack experience when compared to some, but I do this for eight years, and I like to think can differ an opinion and a fact, even when the opinion is mine.


Edited by dejaime, 27 December 2013 - 05:24 PM.


#26 ApochPiQ   Moderators   -  Reputation: 15091

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Posted 27 December 2013 - 06:48 PM

Why do you presume I was talking about you?

My statement stands: most people who like C++ don't know any better.

There are occasional people who like C++ and do have wide experience, which is fine. Some people also like having hot wax poured on their genitals. To each his own, but don't ask me to participate with a smile on my face ;-)

#27 rpiller   Members   -  Reputation: 668

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Posted 27 December 2013 - 09:22 PM

The sad truth is C++ has many benefits when compared to many other languages and we are sort of "forced" to use it if we want to have fast programs that can run on any hardware and we know will still be around in 20+ years. I would love if C# ruled the world myself, but sadly it doesn't.


Edited by rpiller, 27 December 2013 - 09:25 PM.


#28 Subtle_Wonders   Members   -  Reputation: 225

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Posted 29 December 2013 - 03:25 AM

I don't believe any language is truly superior to the other. That's unless, you start talking about targeted platforms and design paradigms. This is because you're also now talking about frameworks. The biggest void I find in debates like this is the confusion between what works better versus what is more convenient, practical and cost efficient to code with.  With that said, I completely agree with ApochPiQ. People who like C++ typically are the ones lacking experience in other languages and development paradigms. 

 

Moving to something more personal, I would favor Java. With so much mobility, I feel that .NET and the JVM rain dominant as a mobile developmental option. However, Java is free, as is learning it and having access to all Java SE APIs. Also, Java is practically the preferred language for developing standard programs on the Android OS as their are not one, but two very powerful APIs for it (Oracle's Java ME and Google's Android SDK). If Java had a 3D framework that was by far more competitively scalable, economically efficient, simpler, and maintainable, there would be a lot more threads about gaming in Java in comparison to C#. Think about it: Java has it's roots well planted in network scalability and mobility, while C# has it's roots well planted in mobile presentation. They both can perform just as good as their counterpart, but Java lacks in presentation. That's why when you compare game engines like Unity versus jMonkey, it doesn't take much to figure out that Unity looks a hell of a lot nicer. However, start talking about business logic with Apache Hadoop, Oracle Weblogic, IBM Websphere, what ever SAP uses, or the Android SDK, and you pretty much talking about Java.



#29 Subtle_Wonders   Members   -  Reputation: 225

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Posted 29 December 2013 - 03:37 AM

The sad truth is C++ has many benefits when compared to many other languages and we are sort of "forced" to use it if we want to have fast programs that can run on any hardware and we know will still be around in 20+ years. I would love if C# ruled the world myself, but sadly it doesn't.

That fast process you are talking about my friend is primarily the pass by reference part of C++, which is a huge trade-off to security and portability. The part of C++ that I feel makes that language shine is it's ability to be a low level, mid level and high level programming language. However, valuing the low/mid level part of the language for the speed, in a high level development paradigm is a design weakness. Best be careful with that logic. ;)

 

 

 

Editorial note: Sorry, I just realized I posted twice on the same thread. lol Silly me.


Edited by Subtle_Wonders, 29 December 2013 - 03:38 AM.


#30 Nathan2222_old   Members   -  Reputation: -400

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Posted 29 December 2013 - 04:41 AM

Most commonly used language for games ... i would say c++. Yes it's hard to use and has problems, even its creator admits that but it doesn't change the fact that even if it can make you want to shoot your foot, many companies still use it fort their games.
Comparing the language used in most games you've spent your money buying and you should see that c++ was used in someway.
You saying that c++ is used by those who don't know any better sounds like either you've never used the language or you couldn't learn it or you were looking for something easier.
Looking at the name of this thread sounds like the op knows the answer but is looking for doubt to feel his mind (kinda like what i did when ... ).

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#31 rpiller   Members   -  Reputation: 668

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Posted 29 December 2013 - 06:26 AM


The part of C++ that I feel makes that language shine is it's ability to be a low level, mid level and high level programming language

 

But we're talking about video games and I don't believe the reason you listed is why it's used in most (maybe just most AAA) video games. I was trying to list why most video games use it.

 

 

However, start talking about business logic with Apache Hadoop, Oracle Weblogic, IBM Websphere, what ever SAP uses, or the Android SDK, and you pretty much talking about Java.

 

I think business uses Java because

 

A) It came first as the write once run everywhere, which is what all these businesses were looking for, so when they got it they all jumped on it

B) It actually directly supports other OS's where MS doesn't directly write it's VM for other OS's (which I think they are missing the mark on personally)

 

The company I work for favors .NET but we have many of the apps that you speak of. I don't mind the Java language but I think the slow startup for Java just kills it for me. That's just my opinion through my experience though.



#32 metsfan   Members   -  Reputation: 654

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Posted 29 December 2013 - 10:12 AM

Why do you presume I was talking about you?

My statement stands: most people who like C++ don't know any better.

There are occasional people who like C++ and do have wide experience, which is fine. Some people also like having hot wax poured on their genitals. To each his own, but don't ask me to participate with a smile on my face ;-)

 

Your statement does not stand, and is extremely judgemental.  C++ is a great language with many strengths that make it a great choice (and sometimes the best choice) for a wide variety of projects, and there are many great programmers who enjoy using it, some of which I work with every day.  Of course it has weaknesses too, but so does everything man-made.  You can say the reason I like C++ is because I don't know it, and I'd respond by saying the more I learn about C++, the more I do like it.  And no, I don't like having hot wax poured on my genitals tongue.png .

 

 

People who like C++ typically are the ones lacking experience in other languages and development paradigms.

 

Translation: "It is a fact that what I don't like is terrible, and everyone who likes what I don't like is stupid".


Edited by metsfan, 29 December 2013 - 10:14 AM.


#33 Nathan2222_old   Members   -  Reputation: -400

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Posted 29 December 2013 - 10:26 AM


People who like C++ typically are the ones lacking experience in other languages and development paradigms.


Translation: "It is a fact that what I don't like is terrible, and everyone who likes what I don't like is stupid".

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#34 khg   Members   -  Reputation: 112

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Posted 29 December 2013 - 11:35 AM

Most of the games are made of C++.


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#35 ApochPiQ   Moderators   -  Reputation: 15091

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Posted 29 December 2013 - 12:30 PM

Translation: "It is a fact that what I don't like is terrible, and everyone who likes what I don't like is stupid".



I don't appreciate you putting words in my mouth.

I speak in generalities, not universal truths, and I would hope you'd be attentive enough to notice that. I'm not saying anything about "everyone" I'm saying that there is a definitive trend. Which means there will be exceptions.

I also never said C++ wasn't the best available choice for some applications. I just happen to think that that's a damned shame.

#36 Subtle_Wonders   Members   -  Reputation: 225

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Posted 29 December 2013 - 12:47 PM


But we're talking about video games and I don't believe the reason you listed is why it's used in most (maybe just most AAA) video games. I was trying to list why most video games use it.

 

I listed the reasons that seem irrelevant because games are being developed with far more complex mobile paradigms than they did in the past. Greater mobility requires complex networking and database accessing strategies. In addition, greater mobility also accounts for an array of hardware/OS platform requirements to design on. Now, judgement the factor of a greater need for security, and a insane amount of recreating the wheal for several different hardware/OS platforms, and you have a huge gap in liability and practicality. But that's just my honest opinion.

 

 

 


The company I work for favors .NET but we have many of the apps that you speak of. I don't mind the Java language but I think the slow startup for Java just kills it for me. That's just my opinion through my experience though.

 

Ditto. I won't hesitate to admit that Java has its weaknesses. What frustrates me is, weaknesses can be overcome, yet their is just not enough marketing power backing up Java in the areas where it could greatly enhance its 3D and game based frameworks. Yet, Java's strengths are without a doubt what the mobile entertainment industry needs and is looking for. It's plainly a double edged sword.

 

 


You saying that c++ is used by those who don't know any better sounds like either you've never used the language or you couldn't learn it or you were looking for something easier.

 

 

 

C++ is without a doubt a great language. My problem is not with this great language. It's the human factor and a lack of reliable frameworks used for secure networking and database accessing. Making a great AAA game that's fast, fun, graphically and audibly awesome is great. Making no money off of it because of database injections and piracy due to mixing low level and high level paradigms is not.

 

Translation: "It is a fact that what I don't like is terrible, and everyone who likes what I don't like is stupid".

 

Which is precisely what we are saying when individuals inside the C++ box can't think outside of it, and for reasons that would otherwise benefit them.

 

 

I don't appreciate you putting words in my mouth.

I speak in generalities, not universal truths, and I would hope you'd be attentive enough to notice that. I'm not saying anything about "everyone" I'm saying that there is a definitive trend. Which means there will be exceptions.

I also never said C++ wasn't the best available choice for some applications. I just happen to think that that's a damned shame.

 

I concur.


Edited by Subtle_Wonders, 29 December 2013 - 12:52 PM.


#37 metsfan   Members   -  Reputation: 654

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Posted 29 December 2013 - 04:53 PM

 

I don't appreciate you putting words in my mouth.

I speak in generalities, not universal truths, and I would hope you'd be attentive enough to notice that. I'm not saying anything about "everyone" I'm saying that there is a definitive trend. Which means there will be exceptions.

I also never said C++ wasn't the best available choice for some applications. I just happen to think that that's a damned shame.

 

 

What is this "trend" you speak of?  Do you have data or a study to back up your claims that the majority of C++ developers are inexperienced, closed minded people who dont know any better?  If you want to talk about trends that's fine but you have to provide some proof that there IS a trend.   You have not spoken in anything but personal opinions.  Which is fine, you are entitled to your opinion.  But there is no trend.  Simply by stating that your words represent a general truth or a "trend" about C++ developers is proof that what I said is correct: you believe your own personal opinions and biases to be fact.  They aren't.  This will be my last post on the matter, so enjoy the last word.



#38 Solid_Spy   Members   -  Reputation: 401

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Posted 30 December 2013 - 04:13 PM


Edited by Solid_Spy, 01 July 2014 - 09:27 PM.


#39 ferrous   Members   -  Reputation: 1921

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Posted 30 December 2013 - 06:51 PM

 

 

After 2 years of consecutive C++ the other languages (except ASM) are extremely easy to understand.
So go with C++.

 
... and it'll only be another 8 years or so, until you start to understand C++! tongue.png

 

I learned C++ in under 2 years, and it was my first programming language tongue.png

 

 

Heh, how much do you really know it, though?  I use C++ and have for about a decade, but on a general scale of knowledge of C++, there are still corners I rarely touch.



#40 Solid_Spy   Members   -  Reputation: 401

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Posted 30 December 2013 - 08:28 PM

After 2 years of consecutive C++ the other languages (except ASM) are extremely easy to understand.
So go with C++.

 
... and it'll only be another 8 years or so, until you start to understand C++! tongue.png

I learned C++ in under 2 years, and it was my first programming language tongue.png

 
Heh, how much do you really know it, though?  I use C++ and have for about a decade, but on a general scale of knowledge of C++, there are still corners I rarely touch.

I'd say I'm about intermediate-advanced, however, people from Digipen have to learn it within one year, and then do a whole game project for the next few years.

Edited by Solid_Spy, 30 December 2013 - 08:28 PM.





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