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Incredibly niche games?


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#1 Shane C   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 1114

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Posted 19 October 2013 - 07:15 AM

I was told that making my Final Fantasy VI style RPG was too difficult for one person. I'm starting to agree with them, now that I no longer have so much passion that I want to debate.

So before I scrap the idea, I have another idea. Something I really wanted to do was implement a turn-based battle system. So what if I had a game where the game is absolutely nothing but turn-based RPG battles, one after another, and long ones too? Meaning no real storyline, no towns, no navigation through areas, etc. It would cut the amount of work in half.

Is there a market for this? Would anyone want to play something so no fluff?

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#2 Acharis   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 3452

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Posted 19 October 2013 - 07:24 AM

Download RPG Maker (XP) and do your Final Fantasy 6 using it :)

 

As for "the game is absolutely nothing but turn-based RPG battles", sure, there are plenty of these... Look through flash game sites. Althrough, these usually have a skeleton storyline.


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#3 Navezof   Members   -  Reputation: 1186

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Posted 19 October 2013 - 08:09 AM

Well, many Tactical Rpg work this way. You have only fights, with some story sequence in-between fights. The japanese Visual Novel works the same way, except there is no fights. So no I don't think,it's really a niche type of game :)

If I agree that making a ff6 like is quite a very big task. Especially if you want to achieve the same level of sound, art, and story telling. I think the the first one is much more realist to do. Maybe.



#4 cardinal   Members   -  Reputation: 810

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Posted 19 October 2013 - 12:21 PM

I think starting with a battle game would be a good idea. It focuses your development and helps from your scope running out of control.

 

It also gives you a solid place to expand from, for instance, adding a story (even if it's entirely text boxes in between battles), or adding an experience/level up/loot system on top of the battle engine. So you could ultimately decide when to stop developing your product. You could even take your battle game and port it into a full game if you decide to later on.



#5 Aspirer   Members   -  Reputation: 544

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Posted 19 October 2013 - 12:56 PM

I think this is a great idea, MUCH better than FFVI.

 

And much like cardinal above me said, it's a basis for adding on.  Make your turn based battle system, work the tweaks out, make it your own version (as opposed to a straight clone), then take it out and use it for a larger RPG (maybe a group project) later.



#6 ActiveUnique   Members   -  Reputation: 799

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Posted 19 October 2013 - 03:15 PM

Check it out, this developer's worked on the very concept with Flash movies since 2004. The work is acceptable as an original work of fiction. You may want to at least take a peek to see how the game evolved.

 

If you check out the developer's profile from Newgrounds (which accepted movies) you'll see they went through a long gradual climb to making pretty good flash games, and seemed to get a positive response all along the way. Improving Animation, combat-only game, full fledged out of combat travel system, different interfaces, stories and game types with similar artwork.

 

This was their first game I'm aware of, and their Newgrounds account.

 

http://www.kongregate.com/games/kupo707/epic-battle-fantasy

http://matt-likes-swords.newgrounds.com/


I've read about the idea guy. It's a serious misnomer. You really want to avoid the lazy team.


#7 powerneg   Members   -  Reputation: 1433

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Posted 19 October 2013 - 07:00 PM

Woot, you 're gonna make a game where i don't need to skip the storyline ? :D

 

Are you gonna deliver a level(battle)-editor with it ?

It would be an easy way of making more content(aka let others do it for you)



#8 Deadghost GreenGrass   Members   -  Reputation: 146

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Posted 22 October 2013 - 11:33 AM

Please tell me you will add permadeath to the characters :D

Seriously though, only combat in a TACTICAL game is awesome, and with the awesomeness of permadeath the game can kind of become a rouge-like-combat-survival-oregontrails-you-will-die kind of game. WITH LEADERBOARDS!

Cheers!



#9 Shane C   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 1114

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Posted 22 October 2013 - 11:39 AM

Please tell me you will add permadeath to the characters :D
Seriously though, only combat in a TACTICAL game is awesome, and with the awesomeness of permadeath the game can kind of become a rouge-like-combat-survival-oregontrails-you-will-die kind of game. WITH LEADERBOARDS!
Cheers!


Permadeath is an interesting idea. Maybe I could have it so the characters completely regenerate health with each new battle, like I was going to do, but have it where if the character dies, you lose them for good and have to choose another character from your roster for the empty slot.

Anyone else like permadeath or not?

#10 ActiveUnique   Members   -  Reputation: 799

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Posted 22 October 2013 - 12:49 PM


Maybe I could have it so the characters completely regenerate health with each new battle, like I was going to do, but have it where if the character dies, you lose them for good and have to choose another character from your roster for the empty slot.

 

This implementation sounds more like resource management. Further explanation, if you replaced a dead character with another which could perform the same or similar duties then it will not have the full impact of a permadeath.

 

A permadeath would imply that when a character dies, not only are they never coming back, but the player has lost something they can feel emotional about. Possibly ending the game right there. It is popular among hardcore players who like punishment or extremely unfair challenges.


I've read about the idea guy. It's a serious misnomer. You really want to avoid the lazy team.


#11 Deadghost GreenGrass   Members   -  Reputation: 146

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Posted 22 October 2013 - 01:39 PM

 


Maybe I could have it so the characters completely regenerate health with each new battle, like I was going to do, but have it where if the character dies, you lose them for good and have to choose another character from your roster for the empty slot.

 

This implementation sounds more like resource management. Further explanation, if you replaced a dead character with another which could perform the same or similar duties then it will not have the full impact of a permadeath.

 

A permadeath would imply that when a character dies, not only are they never coming back, but the player has lost something they can feel emotional about. Possibly ending the game right there. It is popular among hardcore players who like punishment or extremely unfair challenges.

 

 

Well, as I understood it the characters will level up and if they die you will lose a high level hero.



#12 kseh   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 1960

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Posted 22 October 2013 - 02:17 PM

A friend of mine had this idea for a gladitorial combat sort of RPG once. The idea was something like you had a number of fighters under your "employ" that would engage in various battles which may or may not be to the death. The battles could be 1 on 1, free for alls, or vs some critter of some kind. The whole point was to generate ticket sales and prestige. Batlles involving fighters of higher levels and popularity of course would be a bigger draw. Ultimately you could expect veteran fighters to loose due to injuries or an unfair battle but you could also discharge the veteran if you thought it'd be to your advantage (maybe you get a temporary bonus to recruitment).

Since the game was about pretige and ticket sales, loosing high level fighters wasn't as serious a setback. People might pay big money to see the young upstart that got away with a lucky strike at the reigning champ.
 

The only thing is, once you start looking at money as the player's measure of success, you're going to start thinking about things you can do with that money. And that could very quickly explode the scope of your project into something you don't intend.



#13 Navezof   Members   -  Reputation: 1186

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Posted 22 October 2013 - 02:30 PM

I think that when it's correctly done, permatdeath is a very good thing. It can create some emotional link between the player and his soldiers/creatures/characters, and encourage the player to take care of them. But the death must absolutely be justified. I wouldn't like my character dying for nothing or randomly.

Good exemple include Fire Emblem of course, or also Final Fantasy Tactics : Lion War. It can also happen in some STR. I was for exemple very attached to Bob a Giant Fly in Dungeon Keeper. (True story, it was his randomly created name!) I trained him,  I possessed him to go through my dungeon, etc.. But he fell in battle. Okay, the Giant Fly is the weakest creature of the game, but it was Bob!

What I want to say, is if a player spend time with a unique, irreplaceable character, and if this character appeal to him, and not only because the character is strong (good look, good feeling, funny details), there is a chance that he will be affected by its death, and more attached to it. And the fight will be more intense.

But It doesn't works in competitive games :)

And yes, I gladly sacrifice efficient character for "character with whom I have a fell"



#14 sunandshadow   Moderators   -  Reputation: 4687

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Posted 22 October 2013 - 08:29 PM

A game that is nothing but one turn-based battle after another is often included in a social gaming site.  Flight Rising, for example, has The Coliseum which is this kind of thing.  They aren't my personal favorite type of combat to put into a virtual pet site or similar social gaming site, but the owners of the sites are buying them/hiring people to create them, so there's a market.


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#15 AngleWyrm   Members   -  Reputation: 554

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Posted 22 October 2013 - 10:29 PM

So what if I had a game where the game is absolutely nothing but turn-based RPG battles, one after another, and long ones too?

That's a great idea! The game Gratuitous Space Battles was built in the same manner, just focusing on the combat.


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#16 Ludus   Members   -  Reputation: 970

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Posted 22 October 2013 - 11:47 PM


So what if I had a game where the game is absolutely nothing but turn-based RPG battles, one after another, and long ones too?

 

The key to making this work is variety - not necessarily content wise, but in moment to moment conflicts. Do not just have long battles, have lots of short ones too. Vary the number of monsters you fight against - have some battles with a couple strong enemies and other battles with several weaker enemies. Make each battle feel different than the last. Perhaps the player must handle each battle differently depending on the enemies present, the environment you're in, or the characters you currently have at your disposal. That's another huge opportunity for variety - having the player control a rotating set of characters from battle to battle. Each character should have a unique fighting style (like in FFVI) which forces the player to handle each one differently.



#17 ShiftyCake   Members   -  Reputation: 517

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Posted 23 October 2013 - 04:14 AM

Rather then focusing on how to reward the player per game, focus on the turn-based battles themselves. In reality, there is no real way to reward the player if you're going to have consecutive turn-based battles. Sure, adding a hero that levels up might be a nice idea but as it is the only constant, the attachment to the hero would become stronger then the wish to play the game itself; having perma-death on him would actually discourage players to play the game.

 

To get back to my original point, focus on the turn-based gameplay itself. Turn it into something next gen, where anything seen on the battlefield can be used to your advantage; or disadvantage. Say your orc has spiked armor, any melee fighters attacking him would have damage inflicted upon them as well etc. You threw a poison gas bomb at the enemy, but the wind direction drifted it towards your line instead and severely injured some of your minions.

 

Don't stop there, you have an elf and an orc fighting together but you didn't know that in their history there was a huge battle that put their two races as enemy's and so they turn on each other in the middle of an attack, wreaking havoc and chaos that allowed the enemy to overcome your superior forces. You started to travel across a bridge, but an assassin had planted a bomb that would blow up when stepped on. Your forces get thirsty and take a drink from a river, but it turns out that their were enemy mermaids waiting in ambush; taking out half your forces before retreating into the distance with their superior speed in the water.

 

Okay, that's enough examples. But just think, a game where your strategy's can become a reality. You don't have to think about balancing it with story's or anything, just create the most versatile turn-based strategy game. Well, that's my opinion.


If, at any point, what I post is hard to understand, tell me. I am bad at projecting my thoughts into real words, so I appreciate the knowledge that I need to edit my post.

 

I am not a professional writer, nor a professional game designer. Please, understand that everything you read is simply an opinion of mind and should not, at any point in time, be taken as a credible answer unless validated by others.

 

I do take brief bouts of disappearance so don't worry if I either don't reply to you or miss certain things. I am quite a lazy fellow.


#18 Orymus3   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 7033

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Posted 23 October 2013 - 10:23 AM


I was told that making my Final Fantasy VI style RPG was too difficult for one person

 

False

 


now that I no longer have so much passion that I want to debate.

 

That's the only reason you can't do it then.

 


So before I scrap the idea, I have another idea. Something I really wanted to do was implement a turn-based battle system. So what if I had a game where the game is absolutely nothing but turn-based RPG battles, one after another, and long ones too? Meaning no real storyline, no towns, no navigation through areas, etc. It would cut the amount of work in half.

Bahamut Lagoon does essentially that. The game is one tactics fight after the other with a small mini-level aboard the ship for the most part (and few cutscenes).

Most of the effort is put towards the combats, but its still a big game.

What you are doing now is called "scoping". You're cutting the design to a level you feel comfortable you're able to complete, and this is a good practice if you intend to complete it before motivation / capital runs out.

 

I would recommend that you make it in such a way that its easy to MOD.

For example, if battle data is sent through a known format (JSON or .xml for example) it will be easy for other people to contribute tools if the core game is fun, and it will enhance the experience for everyone with new scenarios.

 

I recommend having a look at battle of wesnoth.

 

Good luck.






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