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3D Game Engine Design Specifically for Action/Action RPG, Where Should I Start?


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#1 mychii   Members   -  Reputation: 372

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Posted 23 October 2013 - 04:28 AM

Hi,
 
First of all I don't know whether I should put this in Game Programming or elsewhere, but since the demand focuses on the game, so I put it on Game Programming. Mod please move this anywhere appropriate if not.
 
I'm currently trying to create a 3D game engine for web (which is using WebGL) along with its GUI tools afterwards. I really would love to know your opinion on where and how I should start for the design, before I'm starting a wrong design that causes too many big refactoring just because it is stuck or not generic/too tight/repetitive. This could also be because I make a wrong integration, or waste time on some features that is far from requirements/priority as well. It's a big stuff so I want to be very careful at least the first core tasks. So please, if anyone can give advice/opinion about the design steps with these Lego pieces from scratch, I'd love to hear it. wub.png
Note that since this is more about concept/design phase, it doesn't matter if you elaborate your advice/opinion the design in whatever languages/no language at all (just diagrams or steps).
 
 
You might want to read the details:
 
The Goal
I'm not making a for-all game engine, it is primarily for an Action/Action RPG game (Ex.: Kingdom Hearts, Final Fantasy (10+), Devil May Cry). So this won't be going to be FPS (this includes Skyrim and BioShock), RTS/tactics (I include Dota 2, Diablo, Disgaea, FF tactics, Torchlight, etc. here), Casual/Board, Simulation, etc. My point is that as if I'm trying to create the game called Unreal, it was an FPS game that the engine is first focused for that.
The game engine should be real-time in development so it's faster, I suppose you've seen this one http://artillery.com/.
It's with a team in mind, so if the design means I have to open more windows as if it is for other team member's screen, it is fine. It doesn't have to be an all-in-one feature like Unity, but if it does, it's cool.
It's going to be using component-entity system.
 
Specific game requirements (Maybe could give you an idea):
- Single player, probably has an in-game multiplayer mini game.
- 30 FPS is recommended, but if can reach 60 FPS is fine too.
- Action, which probably means real-time user input.
- Physics seem to be a must. (If you have any libraries out there, please refer)
- FX/particles (you know.. aesthetic skills and stuff, probably some texture manipulations as well. Do I need FX editor?)
- Not an open world (so almost as small as Kingdom Hearts per one part of a world).
- 3D sound.
- Dialogue + voice over. I probably need dialogue system, scene system as well.
- Character animation, which probably means I need content loader + viewer, animation tool, and animation state stuff.
- I need it as photorealistic as it possibly could even though it's a little cartoony. Does it sound complex enough that I need to create visual shader editor for this?
- It's an RPG game so it may have lots of item/stats data, I could save it to a simple storage (in web there's localStorage).
- The enemies are randomly spawned (at spawnable place), moving, physically bound to environment, not too smart (so it may stupidly hit a tree or stuck in some stones for one or two). But the random spot is the same. So a group of enemies will spawn at defined place.
- The places may be entirely modeled, so I'm not worry too much about the auto-generated terrain... maybe. rolleyes.gif
- Water and cloth. Doesn't have to be too much realistic though, the cloth simply required to represent the character's personality and dramatic scenes, and the water is to show... water. No splash/waves required except for skills, .. yet. smile.png
- Intelligent cinematic camera. I need it to be able to take cinematic angles when possible during battle/wander, without disturbing the gameplay. Maybe you can show me any great cameras around (functionally, and aesthetically). FF15 is finally a great example of a camera.
 
Don't worry, I may not be alone doing this. So don't hesitate to throw anything to give any advice/opinion. References would be great, but I really want to hear the opinion from professionals/enthusiasts in here. biggrin.png
 
Thanks, it's a long one so please ask if not clear or I'm missing something. smile.png

Edited by mychii, 23 October 2013 - 04:45 AM.


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#2 brightening-eyes   Members   -  Reputation: 138

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Posted 23 October 2013 - 06:10 AM

it depend's on that you want to make a component that use's C++ or software that make's games

i explain boath of them:

component:

in this case, you have to use some librarys for sounds, image loading/saving, physics, math, AI, and more that you need

then write code depend on them

then compile them as static or shared library

software:

in this case, you must have a component, and a scripting library like angelscript or python or lua

then, register the functions and classes for it and compile it as a executable

then, write a script for your software and see it work's or not



#3 mychii   Members   -  Reputation: 372

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Posted 23 October 2013 - 07:30 AM

it depend's on that you want to make a component that use's C++ or software that make's games

i explain boath of them:

component:

in this case, you have to use some librarys for sounds, image loading/saving, physics, math, AI, and more that you need

then write code depend on them

then compile them as static or shared library

software:

in this case, you must have a component, and a scripting library like angelscript or python or lua

then, register the functions and classes for it and compile it as a executable

then, write a script for your software and see it work's or not

 

The component one sounds better. But I don't really get the software one, you mean I have to test it using that executable? How does that integrate with the game engine? or do you mean the software is the game engine itself (wraps the component with the script library) and run everything using the script?



#4 brightening-eyes   Members   -  Reputation: 138

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 02:15 AM

a game framework is a framework that help's you to develop your games with C++!
like allegro, ogre, OpenAL, etc
the software itself is the game engine only!
it use's a framework and a scripting library to implement an engine
you write scripts and compile them
then your game is ready
i recommend to use software instead of framework
because:
1. you dont get linker errors
2. the scripting languages are easyer than C++
3. scripts dont have memory leeks
and many more that dirring the development, you will know
angelscript has a debugger
so, you may debug your games
but if you want to know how to write them, i say now
first, you have to have a game framework: i recommend to use ogre for 3d renderring
for sounds, i recommend to use OpenAL
for Artificial intelligence, i recommend to use OpenNN and check artificial intelligence forum
i made a topic there and share a library that has a-* algorithm: check it and get that library and use it in your enginne
then go
here
and get AngelScript
then read AngelScript's help
then with those libraries, make some functions and register them with AngelScript
after that, compile your software, write a game using AngelScript and call your engine's functions and compile your script and enjoy your game!
but maybe in your idea, this work is very hard
but i say, it's very enjoyable
dirring the development, you will know this
after your engine has been developed, you can make your games as easy as possible!

#5 mychii   Members   -  Reputation: 372

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 05:37 AM

I'm just trying to confirm what you write, sorry about that.

 

That's the idea, I'm not talking about developing a game yet, I'm talking about making the whole game engine from scratch (with a team). the game spec was just an idea of what condition of the engine that might help you to help me in detail. It's just like I'm making a game called Unreal that uses Unreal engine which was specifically made for it (FPS), not anything else.

 

Thanks for the references (and your A*) and I get what you mean now, thanks.



#6 brightening-eyes   Members   -  Reputation: 138

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 02:58 PM

i said that: you write a script and compile it with your game engine now: you write some functions and use some libraries in C++, to provide your functionality then you register them in your script library using the functions provided by the library that you use after that, you write a script using the scripting language (your game is the script) that use's the functions that you've registered previously in your scripting library then compile your game and run it! the scripting languages is easyer than C++ so, dirring the development of your game, you use that scripting language to program your game it is very easy to write a script! check the AngelScript's website, download the library, compile it with your favorite compiler, use it in your engine and enjoy! i'm using AngelScript now to provide many functions for my engine and after that, i want to write all of my games with it

#7 mychii   Members   -  Reputation: 372

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 06:37 PM

Yeah I saw Havok and Unreal Engine use that kind of scripting too, and it sure is far easier than C++ and may boost stuff in terms of development speed. However, I was thinking that only for AI stuff instead of the whole gameplay, thinking that it may reduce performance as a whole.

It's kinda a dilemma though, I want to push the hardware as well, but since I haven't done that kind of stuff, I really would love to know the performance difference if anyone has experienced about it. Have you tested about this? if yes, how significant it was? was thinking if I have to make that scripting language to all parts of the gameplay may be quite overkill, I need someone to prove my assumption wrong in that regard. (saves my time a lot if anyone already did this xD ).


Edited by mychii, 25 October 2013 - 06:38 PM.


#8 brightening-eyes   Members   -  Reputation: 138

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Posted 26 October 2013 - 04:21 AM

yes, i test it!

it provide's a compiler for you

inside it, you can use havok and any libraries that you want!

but, you have to register all of it's functions

and a request:

can you give havok to me?

i dont have it!

at last:

in order to have performance, your code must be optimized



#9 mychii   Members   -  Reputation: 372

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Posted 26 October 2013 - 07:45 AM

Well thank you for your suggestion and reference brightening-eyes, that AngelScript sure looks good.

 

Anyone else has a thought on how this should be done?



#10 brightening-eyes   Members   -  Reputation: 138

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Posted 26 October 2013 - 07:58 AM

OK, i said that above

but:

1. implement some functions

2. register them with the scripting language

3. make a compiler using the functions provided by the scripting library

4. if you want, use the scripting library(by the functions provided), make a virtual mation to run your scripts

5. build your aplication in debug mode and fix the script errors(dirring the registration, you maybe get some errors that C++ doesn't show and the scripting library show's)

7. write a script(it maybe a simple game) that use's the functions you've provided(dirring the registration), and test the script, compile it and run it

this is so funny



#11 mychii   Members   -  Reputation: 372

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Posted 26 October 2013 - 05:59 PM

OK, i said that above

but:

1. implement some functions

2. register them with the scripting language

3. make a compiler using the functions provided by the scripting library

4. if you want, use the scripting library(by the functions provided), make a virtual mation to run your scripts

5. build your aplication in debug mode and fix the script errors(dirring the registration, you maybe get some errors that C++ doesn't show and the scripting library show's)

7. write a script(it maybe a simple game) that use's the functions you've provided(dirring the registration), and test the script, compile it and run it

this is so funny

Yeah I think that integration is gonna be a hassle, but I won't know unless I try it. Maybe I can use it for some parts, but I have to know how far it could help my situation first.



#12 brightening-eyes   Members   -  Reputation: 138

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Posted 27 October 2013 - 02:53 PM

i have to say you this:

you cannot use another scripting language

just select one

learn it, use it in your engine

but, why i recommended AngelScript?

well, this is because, it's very easy and it doesn't give's any memory leeks

it is fast, has a compiler (on any Operating System), a virtual machine to test your game and a debugger

it's Open-source and in my idea it's very good for game engines

i'm using it in my engine






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