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City of Munich migrated to Linux


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40 replies to this topic

#1 FGFS   Members   -  Reputation: 250

Posted 30 November 2013 - 01:24 AM

Interesting:

http://www.techrepublic.com/article/how-munich-rejected-steve-ballmer-and-kicked-microsoft-out-of-the-city/



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#2 L. Spiro   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 21350

Posted 30 November 2013 - 05:09 AM

I will never ever even remotely considering going to Munich at all in my life.  Ever.

 

 

L. Spiro



#3 Code Fox   GDNet+   -  Reputation: 2756

Posted 30 November 2013 - 05:18 AM

Here we go again.

 

 All I am going to say this -  they locked themselves into their own customized version of Linux, which they are going to have to pay quite a bit of $$ to devs later future when they want to upgrade their systems.


Edited by Shippou, 30 November 2013 - 05:24 AM.

The Only Winning Move Is Not To Play  ~WOPR

Code_Fox_Sig.png


#4 jbadams   Senior Staff   -  Reputation: 23512

Posted 30 November 2013 - 05:27 AM

"Meh".

Sounds like they've spent a long time to save a little money and ended up with a problematic replacement system; pretty much what anyone who has tried to use most open-source software whilst still forced to use our interact with proprietary counterparts could (probably would) have told them before they started.


If they're happy with the move then good for them, but I just don't really care personally, and I think given the difficulty and problems involved it's unlikely to be an example many others will try to follow.

#5 szecs   Members   -  Reputation: 2426

Posted 30 November 2013 - 08:00 AM

So.... some offices use some operating system. Um.... so what? I don't care at all what OS the local grocery store is using. I guess I have to read again, but I don't quite get why, except for the workers of the local government, should care at all.



#6 ChaosEngine   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 3326

Posted 02 December 2013 - 08:30 PM

I will never ever even remotely considering going to Munich at all in my life.  Ever.

 

 

L. Spiro

Not sure if you're trying to be funny... 

 

Why? It's a nice town. Good food, nice beer, some beautiful scenery, especially in winter.


if you think programming is like sex, you probably haven't done much of either.-------------- - capn_midnight

#7 L. Spiro   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 21350

Posted 02 December 2013 - 10:24 PM

Not sure if you're trying to be funny... 
 
Why? It's a nice town. Good food, nice beer, some beautiful scenery, especially in winter.

To be quite honest, ignoring the Linux thing, I’m not really interested in virtually any city/place on Earth outside of Japan.
Hong Kong, New York, London, Shenzhen, Paris (already been), Sydney, and Seoul are basically it. Anywhere else I would only visit for a specific purpose such as SIGGRAPH or ghost hunting, etc., not just for the sake of visiting.

Your list of reasons to go there appeals to a fairly wide and standard audience, but I have a different set of reasons for a place to be interesting etc., and for a few good reasons.
As a super taster I am fairly picky about foods and prefer to stick to foods I have already discovered not to overwhelm my taste buds. When I lived in France the pizza was great because of the cheese, but I still tend to stick closely enough to my standard diet that food is of no motivation at all for visiting a place. Besides, I am fairly sure ramen is my favorite food, but shrimp is pretty close.

Because I am a super taster I do not drink beer, and I don’t believe such a thing exists as “nice” beer.

And “scenery” as most people define it simply depresses me, reminding me of growing up far away from civilization on a farm in the middle of nowhere in Kansas.
Good scenery to me is a jungle of tall buildings, reminding me that I finally got out of that nowhere town and into civilization.

Besides, my acting jobs take me to a lot of scenic places in Japan that fill any void I have for that kind of thing:

901058_10151477479271470_352702619_o.jpg

 

 

L. Spiro



#8 Bacterius   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 11741

Posted 03 December 2013 - 05:43 AM

Your loss tongue.png


“If I understand the standard right it is legal and safe to do this but the resulting value could be anything.”


#9 Erik Rufelt   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 4929

Posted 03 December 2013 - 06:34 AM

So.. migrating to Linux instead of upgrading to Windows XP in late 2013..



#10 Dwarf King   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 1978

Posted 03 December 2013 - 07:07 AM

How safe is Linux as an Open Source OS system?


"The only thing that interferes with my learning is my education"

Albert Einstein

"It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education"

Albert Einstein

 


#11 haegarr   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 6375

Posted 03 December 2013 - 07:36 AM


So.. migrating to Linux instead of upgrading to Windows XP in late 2013..

Not sure whether I understand your point. The study to switch to XP was in 2002, and the cost comparison was done against switching to XP, too, because it was the alternative in those days. It seems me meaningful, doesn't it?



#12 Erik Rufelt   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 4929

Posted 03 December 2013 - 08:34 AM

 


So.. migrating to Linux instead of upgrading to Windows XP in late 2013..

Not sure whether I understand your point. The study to switch to XP was in 2002, and the cost comparison was done against switching to XP, too, because it was the alternative in those days. It seems me meaningful, doesn't it?

 

 

Guess I scanned the thing too fast, I thought they were upgrading to XP now.

 

I think they stated that most of the savings was from being able to run Linux on PCs that weren't powerful enough for Windows 7 though. I generally find it highly doubtful that upgrading hardware doesn't save money, especially at 6 million for 15000 workers where an effectivity-increase of 2% would pay for it in 1 year. (Obviously regardless of what OS they choose).

Then again they might not want to increase productivity as the next election might well be won or lost depending on how many people are happy new employees at LiMux workstations smile.png


Edited by Erik Rufelt, 03 December 2013 - 08:41 AM.


#13 SimonForsman   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 7029

Posted 03 December 2013 - 08:47 AM

How safe is Linux as an Open Source OS system?

 

It depends on what crap you install on it, the OS itself is very stable and secure as long as you don't install any Adobe or Oracle products on it (pretty much the same as with Windows)


Edited by SimonForsman, 03 December 2013 - 08:50 AM.

I don't suffer from insanity, I'm enjoying every minute of it.
The voices in my head may not be real, but they have some good ideas!

#14 TheComet   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 2194

Posted 03 December 2013 - 11:57 AM

So the only real benefit I can pull out of this whole story is that they are now free (in the sense of freedom). Is that really a place they want to be in?


YOUR_OPINION >/dev/null

#15 SimonForsman   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 7029

Posted 03 December 2013 - 12:28 PM

So the only real benefit I can pull out of this whole story is that they are now free (in the sense of freedom). Is that really a place they want to be in?

 

The big deal really isn't moving from Windows to Linux though, (It is a fairly minor change for a standard desktop, you save a few dollars on license fees, get better uptime and easier administration but thats about it). The big cost savings come from ditching the rest of the  Microsoft ecosystem with its more or less mandatory license renewals. (Office, Exchange, etc).

 

Being "free", not in the FSF sense, but in the, "not surgically attached at the hip to a single provider" sense is always a good thing.


I don't suffer from insanity, I'm enjoying every minute of it.
The voices in my head may not be real, but they have some good ideas!

#16 Dwarf King   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 1978

Posted 03 December 2013 - 01:31 PM

 

How safe is Linux as an Open Source OS system?

 

It depends on what crap you install on it, the OS itself is very stable and secure as long as you don't install any Adobe or Oracle products on it (pretty much the same as with Windows)

 

I was more thinking about how many people easily could get access to the architecture and design of the OS in no time due to the Open Source thing. I mean with Windows and mac most stuff is close source and not given away on community websites. I like open source but a close source system gotta be more hard to hack I guess(even though possible) than an open source system(at least it seems to be more easy to get access to the source code of an open source system and study it in and out than with close source systems).

 

Please feel free to correct me here if any of you find what I write wrong. I am in no way an OS system expert.


"The only thing that interferes with my learning is my education"

Albert Einstein

"It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education"

Albert Einstein

 


#17 ChaosEngine   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 3326

Posted 03 December 2013 - 01:53 PM


Your list of reasons to go there appeals to a fairly wide and standard audience, but I have a different set of reasons for a place to be interesting etc., and for a few good reasons.
As a super taster I am fairly picky about foods and prefer to stick to foods I have already discovered not to overwhelm my taste buds. When I lived in France the pizza was great because of the cheese, but I still tend to stick closely enough to my standard diet that food is of no motivation at all for visiting a place. Besides, I am fairly sure ramen is my favorite food, but shrimp is pretty close.

Because I am a super taster I do not drink beer, and I don’t believe such a thing exists as “nice” beer.

 

WTF is a "super taster"? 

 

Of course there's "nice" beer. There's also terrible beer and outstanding beer. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

 

 

And *that* photo was your representation of Japanese scenery? Christ, I was there for all of two weeks and I say better scenery than that. I see better scenery than that driving to work in NZ. :P


if you think programming is like sex, you probably haven't done much of either.-------------- - capn_midnight

#18 tstrimple   Prime Members   -  Reputation: 1755

Posted 03 December 2013 - 01:56 PM

 

 

How safe is Linux as an Open Source OS system?

 

It depends on what crap you install on it, the OS itself is very stable and secure as long as you don't install any Adobe or Oracle products on it (pretty much the same as with Windows)

 

I was more thinking about how many people easily could get access to the architecture and design of the OS in no time due to the Open Source thing. I mean with Windows and mac most stuff is close source and not given away on community websites. I like open source but a close source system gotta be more hard to hack I guess(even though possible) than an open source system(at least it seems to be more easy to get access to the source code of an open source system and study it in and out than with close source systems).

 

Please feel free to correct me here if any of you find what I write wrong. I am in no way an OS system expert.

 

 

You're referring to security through obscurity and it's not security at all. The fact that Linux is open source (and has so many eyes on it) will actually increase its security. This can't be said for all open source projects of course, but very popular ones will tend to be more secure.



#19 tstrimple   Prime Members   -  Reputation: 1755

Posted 03 December 2013 - 02:04 PM

 

And *that* photo was your representation of Japanese scenery? Christ, I was there for all of two weeks and I say better scenery than that. I see better scenery than that driving to work in NZ. tongue.png

 

 

Yeah, not what I would have picked either.

 

Fuji_Japan_-_Cherry_Blossoms_and_Mount.j

 

Then again, Munich is definitely worth looking at...

 

munich-img3.jpg


Edited by tstrimple, 03 December 2013 - 02:07 PM.


#20 SimonForsman   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 7029

Posted 03 December 2013 - 02:06 PM

 

 

How safe is Linux as an Open Source OS system?

 

It depends on what crap you install on it, the OS itself is very stable and secure as long as you don't install any Adobe or Oracle products on it (pretty much the same as with Windows)

 

I was more thinking about how many people easily could get access to the architecture and design of the OS in no time due to the Open Source thing. I mean with Windows and mac most stuff is close source and not given away on community websites. I like open source but a close source system gotta be more hard to hack I guess(even though possible) than an open source system(at least it seems to be more easy to get access to the source code of an open source system and study it in and out than with close source systems).

 

Please feel free to correct me here if any of you find what I write wrong. I am in no way an OS system expert.

 

 

If your security relies on the code being kept secret you've allready lost, yes it is slightly easier to find existing security holes in OSS software, this however also means they get discovered and fixed earlier reducing the number of undiscovered holes in the software.

The vast majority of attacks against both open and closed source software are not a result of studying the code or even disassemblies but rather a result of reading the patch notes and attacking flaws after the vendor has allready fixed them, Linux systems benefit from this by being easier to keep up to date, You don't have to wait for "patch tuesday" to get your security fixes and you don't have to reboot your systems to apply them. (If you use a smaller distro however you might not get the patches as quickly as you would with a big commercial distro and that can greatly cripple your security)


I don't suffer from insanity, I'm enjoying every minute of it.
The voices in my head may not be real, but they have some good ideas!




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