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Creating an Open World game


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#21 cardinal   Members   -  Reputation: 903

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Posted 08 December 2013 - 10:06 PM

I think "Open World" is a term that causes a lot of confusion. Building a game of GTAV or Assassin Creed's calibre is NOT in any way achievable by one person. There are thousands of art assets. Hundreds or thousands of animations (depending on animation requirements and how many types creatures that have their own rigs there are), hundreds of sound effects, hundreds of pages of recorded voice acting, dozens of hours of scripted quests, and more. That's not even including the programming requirements.

 

This doesn't mean making an open world game is impossible for one person (one as deep and as detailed as the AAA titles however would be). If you develop a fairly detailed design document, you can break down all of the assets you need, come up with time estimates it would take you to make the assets, or code the feature, etc., and see roughly how long making the game would take. If it's too long, revisit your design and scale back.

 

I personally don't think having a "dream game" is a problem. I have lots of dream games that are completely unrealistic for me to build (and I've build AAA games for the last 8 years, so knowing how to do it is not the issue). Sometimes working on my dream game gives me ideas for my other games. The problem is if you let your dream game stop you from working on achievable games, or from learning.



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#22 Nathan2222_old   Members   -  Reputation: -400

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Posted 09 December 2013 - 01:03 AM

Thanks to all those that realise creating an open world game is possible but not for a beginner

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#23 BHXSpecter   Members   -  Reputation: 1673

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Posted 09 December 2013 - 01:51 AM

Thanks to all those that realise creating an open world game is possible but not for a beginner

Such narrow thinking. I've come across several open world FPS games by beginners who made it as their first game using some tool. Torque3D has FPS, RPG, MMO, etc tutorials. UDK has tutorials for making open worlds, FPS, and other game genres. With the tools out there today it is no trouble for a beginner to make an open world game.


"Through vengence I was born.Through war I was trained.Through love I was found. Through death I was released. Through release I was given a purpose."


#24 Nathan2222_old   Members   -  Reputation: -400

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Posted 09 December 2013 - 02:06 AM

Thanks to all those that realise creating an open world game is possible but not for a beginner

Such narrow thinking. I've come across several open world FPS games by beginners who made it as their first game using some tool. Torque3D has FPS, RPG, MMO, etc tutorials. UDK has tutorials for making open worlds, FPS, and other game genres. With the tools out there today it is no trouble for a beginner to make an open world game.

Are you not the same guy that said it was not possible:/

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#25 lightxbulb   Members   -  Reputation: 1020

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Posted 09 December 2013 - 02:47 AM

 

Thanks to all those that realise creating an open world game is possible but not for a beginner

Such narrow thinking. I've come across several open world FPS games by beginners who made it as their first game using some tool. Torque3D has FPS, RPG, MMO, etc tutorials. UDK has tutorials for making open worlds, FPS, and other game genres. With the tools out there today it is no trouble for a beginner to make an open world game.

 

Arguing semantics more than 2 times in a thread makes you look like an asshole imo.(hint words:beginner, lua) Of course the guy has some illusions when it comes to game making - but most people do, especially when they are beginners, however that doesn't explain why you sound so pissed every time you reply and start nitpicking every single word. Don't worry, even if a person has unreal expectations of what he can create - sooner or later he'll either manage to make it(at the expense of tremendous efforts), or he'll get disillusioned when it comes to "his dream". Trying doesn't hurt most times.

 

P.S. Don't bother replying I'm not into E-drama.



#26 BHXSpecter   Members   -  Reputation: 1673

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Posted 09 December 2013 - 10:06 AM

 

 

Are you not the same guy that said it was not possible:/ 

No, not sure where you got that.

 

 

Arguing semantics more than 2 times in a thread makes you look like an asshole imo.(hint words:beginner, lua) 

Oh, well there is a reason for that, because I am.

 

 

 however that doesn't explain why you sound so pissed every time you reply and start nitpicking every single word.

That is you interpreting it as being pissed. I felt nothing of the sort, I replied and went back to the things I was doing on my laptop.

 

 

P.S. Don't bother replying I'm not into E-drama.

That is like walking up to a guy, punching him in the face, and then saying "Don't bother doing anything, I'm not into fights." You post something attacking a person (even if it is true as I stated) it is going to warrant a reply from them which makes the P.S. come across at total bs. If you aren't into E-drama you would have kept your analysis of me to yourself. 

 

I'm 32 years old and been programming in some form for 19 years (since 1994) so I don't really worry too much about what others think of me. You think I'm an asshole, then have at it as I'm sure before it is over I'll prove people think I'm a lot of other good and bad things better and worse than that. :)


"Through vengence I was born.Through war I was trained.Through love I was found. Through death I was released. Through release I was given a purpose."


#27 TheAxe   Members   -  Reputation: 500

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Posted 09 December 2013 - 10:37 AM

 

Are you not the same guy that said it was not possible:/

 

Nobody said that it's impossible.

It's just not practical.

The art, the programming, it's too much.

 

Sure, you can make a great game in 3 years.

But it won' t be the equivalent of an AAA game. (maybe an AAA game from a decade ago, but we are considering AAA games from today, not gta 3 or Doom (which I would consider AAA))

 

Implying otherwise is egoistical. (sort of)

Why? Because that would imply that that person could do the exact same amount of work in the same time as hunderds of people from a big company.

 

So you think, sure I'll just work for 10-15 years.

You'll need amazing motivation (and money, since where are you going to get money to eat?) to do that and finish the project.

But the work done today is old news in 15 years time.

 

AAA isn't better than indie.

Games don't need to be like that to be good.

 

The reason why I started this discussion is that having unrealistic expectations isn't good.

I think many people (everyone?) have a dream game, which would require it to be AAA.

But most people know that it's that, a dream. (something that could happen, but probably not)

 

Your original post made it look like you could expect to be someday possible to make an AAA game on your own.

Which is just not true (if it is, there would be many people who already did it)


Edited by axel1994, 09 December 2013 - 10:42 AM.

"Talk is cheap. Show me the code."

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#28 Nathan2222_old   Members   -  Reputation: -400

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Posted 09 December 2013 - 01:44 PM


Are you not the same guy that said it was not possible:/

Nobody said that it's impossible.
It's just not practical.
The art, the programming, it's too much.

Sure, you can make a great game in 3 years.
But it won' t be the equivalent of an AAA game. (maybe an AAA game from a decade ago, but we are considering AAA games from today, not gta 3 or Doom (which I would consider AAA))

Implying otherwise is egoistical. (sort of)
Why? Because that would imply that that person could do the exact same amount of work in the same time as hunderds of people from a big company.

So you think, sure I'll just work for 10-15 years.
You'll need amazing motivation (and money, since where are you going to get money to eat?) to do that and finish the project.
But the work done today is old news in 15 years time.

AAA isn't better than indie.
Games don't need to be like that to be good.

The reason why I started this discussion is that having unrealistic expectations isn't good.
I think many people (everyone?) have a dream game, which would require it to be AAA.
But most people know that it's that, a dream. (something that could happen, but probably not)

Your original post made it look like you could expect to be someday possible to make an AAA game on your own.
Which is just not true (if it is, there would be many people who already did it)
My original means i will someday create an AAA game not expect. You can say i'm optimistic but there's something about you guys saying it's impossible that just makes me wanna do it more.
Searching through the net today, i saw a youtube video of a guy's gta style game and when people asked if he needed help, he refused. I don't know how far he's gone since July, 2013 but that's all the motivation i needed.
And it'll be way easier to recreate gta3 or vice city as they are not half as complex as their present version.
Fact is, i will try to create the game and from what i've seen, it's a 50% chance of failure and it won't take nearly 10 years.
The only way to prove it's possible is by doing it and that's what i'm prepping for. Can't wait :)

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#29 Vortez   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 2704

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Posted 09 December 2013 - 04:45 PM

more like a 150% chance of failure... but whatever



#30 Nathan2222_old   Members   -  Reputation: -400

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Posted 09 December 2013 - 05:15 PM

more like a 150% chance of failure... but whatever


Great! That means i have a 850% chance of success or as you would see it 50% chance of success and that's amazing :).
Don't you get it, i will try to create it.
Let's find out something, what will make it impossible and don't think of random stuff i.e. you were told but facts i.e. you've tried it and it didn't work out. What will make it impossible to create/gives a 100% chance of failure?

UNREAL ENGINE 4:
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GREAT QUOTES:
I can do ALL things through Christ - Jesus Christ
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Logic will get you from A-Z, imagination gets you everywhere - Albert Einstein
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The problems of the world cannot be solved by skeptics or cynics whose horizons are limited by the obvious realities. - John F. Kennedy


#31 FLeBlanc   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 3117

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Posted 09 December 2013 - 05:21 PM

Nathan2222: You should start a dev journal right here at gamedev.net, to keep us all updated on your progress. I'm curious to see how it goes. When can we expect the first screenshots?



#32 Nathan2222_old   Members   -  Reputation: -400

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Posted 09 December 2013 - 05:31 PM

Nathan2222: You should start a dev journal right here at gamedev.net, to keep us all updated on your progress. I'm curious to see how it goes. When can we expect the first screenshots?

Um, you lost me at dev journal. What are you talking about? Did you read the post i said i'm prepping or the second post in this thread on the first page? :-/

UNREAL ENGINE 4:
Total LOC: ~3M Lines
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--
GREAT QUOTES:
I can do ALL things through Christ - Jesus Christ
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Logic will get you from A-Z, imagination gets you everywhere - Albert Einstein
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The problems of the world cannot be solved by skeptics or cynics whose horizons are limited by the obvious realities. - John F. Kennedy


#33 Dragonsoulj   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 2126

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Posted 09 December 2013 - 05:33 PM


dev journal

 

It's a journal where you record your progress for others to read. GameDev has something you could use.



#34 FLeBlanc   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 3117

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Posted 09 December 2013 - 05:33 PM

 

Nathan2222: You should start a dev journal right here at gamedev.net, to keep us all updated on your progress. I'm curious to see how it goes. When can we expect the first screenshots?

Um, you lost me at dev journal. What are you talking about? Did you read the post i said i'm prepping or the second post in this thread on the first place? :-/

 

 

Do you do drugs?



#35 Nathan2222_old   Members   -  Reputation: -400

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Posted 09 December 2013 - 05:37 PM

Nathan2222: You should start a dev journal right here at gamedev.net, to keep us all updated on your progress. I'm curious to see how it goes. When can we expect the first screenshots?

Um, you lost me at dev journal. What are you talking about? Did you read the post i said i'm prepping or the second post in this thread on the first page? :/

Do you do drugs?

Um please why would you ask me that. :(

UNREAL ENGINE 4:
Total LOC: ~3M Lines
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GREAT QUOTES:
I can do ALL things through Christ - Jesus Christ
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Logic will get you from A-Z, imagination gets you everywhere - Albert Einstein
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The problems of the world cannot be solved by skeptics or cynics whose horizons are limited by the obvious realities. - John F. Kennedy


#36 shadowisadog   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 2563

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Posted 09 December 2013 - 06:58 PM

 

more like a 150% chance of failure... but whatever


Great! That means i have a 850% chance of success or as you would see it 50% chance of success and that's amazing smile.png.
Don't you get it, i will try to create it.
Let's find out something, what will make it impossible and don't think of random stuff i.e. you were told but facts i.e. you've tried it and it didn't work out. What will make it impossible to create/gives a 100% chance of failure?

 

 

You do not have a 100% chance of failure, but failure is likely with most software projects.

 

http://www.zdnet.com/blog/projectfailures/study-68-percent-of-it-projects-fail/1175

 

The scale and scope of the work involved to produce a AAA game can provide a good estimate as to the likelihood of success.

 

http://gameindustry.about.com/od/glossary/g/Aaa-Game.htm

 

"These games will have a marketing budget in the multiple-millions of dollars, and are planned to earn out in excess of one million titles sold. Investors/publishers expect a multiple-of-cost return on their investment. In order to recoup general development costs, publishers will generally produce the title for the major platforms (currently Xbox 360, PS3, and PC) to maximize profits, unless it is a console exclusive, in which case the console maker will pay for exclusivity to offset the loss of potential profit to the developer."

 

I think given the above it may be a tad unrealistic to think that a AAA game can be produced by one person with minimal budget. I am not saying it is impossible, but it is extremely improbable. I would think that it would be equally probable that in my life time the government will solve all problems and stop arguing.

 

But anyway best of luck to you :) .


Edited by shadowisadog, 09 December 2013 - 07:03 PM.


#37 Bacterius   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 9286

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Posted 09 December 2013 - 07:01 PM

Nathan2222: people are referring to http://www.gamedev.net/blogs, you can create your own blog right here on gamedev.net and keep everyone up to date on your progress. I think that's what they meant~


The slowsort algorithm is a perfect illustration of the multiply and surrender paradigm, which is perhaps the single most important paradigm in the development of reluctant algorithms. The basic multiply and surrender strategy consists in replacing the problem at hand by two or more subproblems, each slightly simpler than the original, and continue multiplying subproblems and subsubproblems recursively in this fashion as long as possible. At some point the subproblems will all become so simple that their solution can no longer be postponed, and we will have to surrender. Experience shows that, in most cases, by the time this point is reached the total work will be substantially higher than what could have been wasted by a more direct approach.

 

- Pessimal Algorithms and Simplexity Analysis


#38 HScottH   Members   -  Reputation: 512

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Posted 09 December 2013 - 09:22 PM

My favorite language is C++.  If I could build a game in any language, that would be it.  But, I have far too many years of programming experience, and have programmed Assembler on many platforms, and this deeper knowledge makes C++ particularly good for me: I understand what the compiler generates, how to improve it where necessary (via rewriting C++ code, or using inline assembly).  I have been programming with classes as long as there have been classes, and pointers since, well, since C.

 

The language I am most familiar and fluent with is C#. Why? Because much of the work I have done since 2002 has been well suited to a somewhat more RAD environment, and I liked C#'s syntax.  I can write a business app in C# fully 10 times faster than I can in C++.

 

But now here I am, writing a game (and engine), and I am doing it in Java.  I programmed java in it's early years but grew disgusted with it because it changed too quickly.  I dropped it, and picked it back up when Android released in '08.

 

So why am I using Java?

 

I want portability.  My code will run without revision on Mac, Linux and Windows, and with only minor revision (because of how I have structured my program), on Android.  This is a huge win.

 

Further, if the choice of language (real language, not scripting language) matters where performance is concerned (given they are perhaps 10% different on average, or 2x worst case), I believe an architecture bug is to blame.  In other words, I could make the code much faster in C++,  but if the switch to java significantly injures the game's playability, there is a bug in my design.

So, from this you should be able to discern my suggestion.  To elaborate on that, I would recommend staying away from all scripting languages and lesser known languages. Why? You want to not only make an awesome game, but gain valuable and reusable skills, using tools that are widely excepted and used by as many people as possible (in case you strike it rich and need to hire people for the next release :-)



#39 shadowisadog   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 2563

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Posted 09 December 2013 - 10:02 PM


To elaborate on that, I would recommend staying away from all scripting languages and lesser known languages. Why? You want to not only make an awesome game, but gain valuable and reusable skills, using tools that are widely excepted and used by as many people as possible (in case you strike it rich and need to hire people for the next release :-)

 

Here is a list of games that use Python as a scripting language: https://wiki.python.org/moin/AppsWithPythonScripting

 

Here is a list of games that use Lua scripting: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Lua-scripted_video_games

 

Scripting is a valuable part of modern games and it is a reusable skill. These tools are widely accepted and they are used by many people.

 

I specifically recommend against staying away from all scripting languages :).


Edited by shadowisadog, 09 December 2013 - 10:02 PM.


#40 BHXSpecter   Members   -  Reputation: 1673

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Posted 10 December 2013 - 12:41 AM

To elaborate on that, I would recommend staying away from all scripting languages and lesser known languages. Why? You want to not only make an awesome game, but gain valuable and reusable skills, using tools that are widely excepted and used by as many people as possible (in case you strike it rich and need to hire people for the next release :-)

I would say to absolutely ignore that recommendation. I know a few programmers that code mainly the core of the game in C++ but do most of it in Lua or Python for the content. Basically they make it so that the game boots, but then switches out different things to scripts. Scripting languages can extend the life of your game because, if done right, can make the game mod-able. Ignore scripting and you are dooming your game to a short lived life because it can't be added to unless you add things to it in later updates. For example, if you make a game without scripting so you can't mod it to keep it fresh and the game lasts 6 months then fades, that is basically its life cycle (though I'm sure some will stumble upon it later or replay it for nostalgia). With scripting and mods, the end users could make mods that could potentially push the life cycle to years. This is all assuming your game gets a following, but that is hard to come by because too many complain that games are just trying to be clones of others and this can hurt your games. 


Edited by BHXSpecter, 10 December 2013 - 12:43 AM.

"Through vengence I was born.Through war I was trained.Through love I was found. Through death I was released. Through release I was given a purpose."





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