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Features needed in a 3D Game Engine/Game?


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#1 Zero_Breaker   Members   -  Reputation: 367

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Posted 13 January 2014 - 06:51 PM

Hi guys.

 

I have a question to ask. What is needed in a 3D game/engine that is just going to have a Map with no obstacles and a actor that can move and jump around the map?

 

I know i need:

 

-Graphics (D3D 10).

-Physics (Bullet/ODE).

-Input (DirectInput).

-Save and Load (Custom).

-Camera System. (Custom).

-Animation. (D3D 10).

-OOP Oriented to maintain a stable and well built design.

 

If i am missing anything i would greatly appreciate your input.

 

Any advice is most welcome.

 



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#2 L. Spiro   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 14447

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Posted 13 January 2014 - 07:50 PM

I assume you misspelled “D3D 11”.  D3D 10 is just a myth, like Windows® Millennium Edition™.  It never happened.
 
You also need sound (OpenAL, FMOD, whatever).
And a tool for making models (FBX SDK -> Custom Converter).
A state-changing system would be useful (General Game/Engine Structure).
A tool to create DXT images may be useful (LSDxt DXT Compressor).

 

 

L. Spiro


It is amazing how often people try to be unique, and yet they are always trying to make others be like them. - L. Spiro 2011
I spent most of my life learning the courage it takes to go out and get what I want. Now that I have it, I am not sure exactly what it is that I want. - L. Spiro 2013
I went to my local Subway once to find some guy yelling at the staff. When someone finally came to take my order and asked, “May I help you?”, I replied, “Yeah, I’ll have one asshole to go.”
L. Spiro Engine: http://lspiroengine.com
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#3 Zero_Breaker   Members   -  Reputation: 367

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Posted 13 January 2014 - 08:07 PM

I assume you misspelled “D3D 11”.  D3D 10 is just a myth, like Windows® Millennium Edition™.  It never happened.
 
You also need sound (OpenAL, FMOD, whatever).
And a tool for making models (FBX SDK -> Custom Converter).
A state-changing system would be useful (General Game/Engine Structure).
A tool to create DXT images may be useful (LSDxt DXT Compressor).

 

 

L. Spiro

Thank's a lot, this help's me quite a lot for my game engine preparation. Also its good to hear it from a veteran who actaully works/has a career in the industry so double thanks for that, your website is quite helpful.

 

So i guess DX10 is useless.



#4 L. Spiro   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 14447

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Posted 13 January 2014 - 08:13 PM

So i guess DX10 is useless.

If it is the best thing you can possibly access, time to move out of Africa then it would be better than using Direct3D 9 as it will teach you more modern graphics programming closer to the way Direct3D 11 works.

If you have access to Direct3D 11, there is no reason to look at Direct3D 10.  When I once thought I was going to support it, I got a blank stare from David Helgeson (CEO of Unity) followed by the question, “Why are you supporting Direct3D 10?  I thought everyone was just skipping that and going straight to Direct3D 11.”

The fact that I could not come up with a good response was enough to convince me I shouldn’t be supporting it.

 

 

L. Spiro


Edited by L. Spiro, 13 January 2014 - 08:14 PM.

It is amazing how often people try to be unique, and yet they are always trying to make others be like them. - L. Spiro 2011
I spent most of my life learning the courage it takes to go out and get what I want. Now that I have it, I am not sure exactly what it is that I want. - L. Spiro 2013
I went to my local Subway once to find some guy yelling at the staff. When someone finally came to take my order and asked, “May I help you?”, I replied, “Yeah, I’ll have one asshole to go.”
L. Spiro Engine: http://lspiroengine.com
L. Spiro Engine Forums: http://lspiroengine.com/forums

#5 Zero_Breaker   Members   -  Reputation: 367

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Posted 13 January 2014 - 08:30 PM

 

So i guess DX10 is useless.

If it is the best thing you can possibly access, time to move out of Africa then it would be better than using Direct3D 9 as it will teach you more modern graphics programming closer to the way Direct3D 11 works.

If you have access to Direct3D 11, there is no reason to look at Direct3D 10.  When I once thought I was going to support it, I got a blank stare from David Helgeson (CEO of Unity) followed by the question, “Why are you supporting Direct3D 10?  I thought everyone was just skipping that and going straight to Direct3D 11.”

The fact that I could not come up with a good response was enough to convince me I shouldn’t be supporting it.

 

 

L. Spiro

 

However, i read that Direct 3D 11 is just an extension Direct 3D 10 if i recall correctly, if not then i apologize if i am mistaken. Since i figured that Direct 3D 11 was en extension with minor changes according to Microsoft 's website i thought of learning Direct 3D 10 first and maybe then converting my game to a Direct 3D 11 game.

 

But Direct 3D 11 is only for people with DX11 class graphics cards so its kind of like putting up the finger to people with cards like a 8800GT which is a very powerful Direct 3D 10 card but it cannot play Direct 3D 11 games.

 

Before i started Direct 3D i researched all of the differences between the three and D3D10 seemed most appropraite for me after the actually knowing the differences. A lot of new games use D3D 10 look at Naruto Ultimate Ninja Storm 3 Full Burst. It does not use D3D11 but D3D 9 and 10. There is no point for going for the latest version if the changes are small.

 

If someone says: "Everyone uses D3D 11 no point using D3D 10" i would not give a crap what other people use, i would actually research the differences between something and decide upon my judgement and research which version might be best to use. In the end its the result that matters, that is all.

 

Sorry if this sounded harsh, i never meant for it to sound harsh but you should look at some evidence and back up your point a little better. Just because that person is a CEO does not mean he is always right, you should know the facts and differences of something. You failed to mention the vital differences between the two programming wise and feature wise.


Edited by Zero_Breaker, 13 January 2014 - 08:47 PM.


#6 L. Spiro   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 14447

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Posted 13 January 2014 - 08:41 PM

Learning Direct3D 9 would pretty much as you say teach better

I said Direct3D 10 would be better than Direct3D 9. Direct3D 10 will teach you more modern graphics philosophy.

And you don’t need to worry about giving the finger to people with 8800GT cards (such as myself) when all you are making is a learning sample with a guy running over terrain.

Speaking of which, you would need terrain (GeoClipmaps/GeoMipmaps).


L. Spiro


It is amazing how often people try to be unique, and yet they are always trying to make others be like them. - L. Spiro 2011
I spent most of my life learning the courage it takes to go out and get what I want. Now that I have it, I am not sure exactly what it is that I want. - L. Spiro 2013
I went to my local Subway once to find some guy yelling at the staff. When someone finally came to take my order and asked, “May I help you?”, I replied, “Yeah, I’ll have one asshole to go.”
L. Spiro Engine: http://lspiroengine.com
L. Spiro Engine Forums: http://lspiroengine.com/forums

#7 Zero_Breaker   Members   -  Reputation: 367

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Posted 13 January 2014 - 08:46 PM

 

Learning Direct3D 9 would pretty much as you say teach better

I said Direct3D 10 would be better than Direct3D 9. Direct3D 10 will teach you more modern graphics philosophy.

And you don’t need to worry about giving the finger to people with 8800GT cards (such as myself) when all you are making is a learning sample with a guy running over terrain.

Speaking of which, you would need terrain (GeoClipmaps/GeoMipmaps).


L. Spiro

 

Sorry about that my mistake. I intend to use the guy running over the terrain as a base to add more features to the game once i finish the designs of my characters,story and lore etc. Oh and thanks again for the links, they are quite helpful. Anyway as i said sorry if it sounded harsh.



#8 SeanMiddleditch   Members   -  Reputation: 7269

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Posted 13 January 2014 - 09:31 PM

However, i read that Direct 3D 11 is just an extension Direct 3D 10 if i recall correctly, if not then i apologize if i am mistaken.

 

Nope.  D3D11 is an entirely new API.  It's one that looks a _lot_ like D3D10, but it's different.  Different headers, different class names, etc. (mostly).

 

One nice thing D3D10+ has is the idea of feature levels.  You can use D3D11 but configure it to only use D3D10 or even D3D9 hardware capabilities. This means that you can easily support a wide range of hardware with only the newest API version and without nearly the same number of contortions that OpenGL requires.

 

Windows XP only supports D3D9.  Windows 7 shipped with D3D 11.0.  The only OS that supports D3D10 but not D3D11 is unpatched Vista (I believe SP1 added it).  All versions of Windows support OpenGL up to the latest version (though the specific version, extensions, and bugs supported vary by driver vendor).

 

The only reason to use D3D 9 at all anymore is if you plan to support XP, only need D3D 9 hardware features, and don't ever plan to port to non-Windows OSes via GL.  The only reason to use D3D 10 is if you plan to support the ~5 gamers using Vista RTM.  GL is an option, though (IMHO) not a great one if you don't need the extra platform support.

 

There are even a few nice D3D 11.1 features that are very handy for debugging that you can conditionally enable if available.  Windows 7 doesn't have "full" 11.1 but it does have a Platform Update available that enables parts of it, primarily those you'd use for development and testing.



#9 Zero_Breaker   Members   -  Reputation: 367

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Posted 14 January 2014 - 06:28 AM

 

However, i read that Direct 3D 11 is just an extension Direct 3D 10 if i recall correctly, if not then i apologize if i am mistaken.

 

Nope.  D3D11 is an entirely new API.  It's one that looks a _lot_ like D3D10, but it's different.  Different headers, different class names, etc. (mostly).

 

One nice thing D3D10+ has is the idea of feature levels.  You can use D3D11 but configure it to only use D3D10 or even D3D9 hardware capabilities. This means that you can easily support a wide range of hardware with only the newest API version and without nearly the same number of contortions that OpenGL requires.

 

Windows XP only supports D3D9.  Windows 7 shipped with D3D 11.0.  The only OS that supports D3D10 but not D3D11 is unpatched Vista (I believe SP1 added it).  All versions of Windows support OpenGL up to the latest version (though the specific version, extensions, and bugs supported vary by driver vendor).

 

The only reason to use D3D 9 at all anymore is if you plan to support XP, only need D3D 9 hardware features, and don't ever plan to port to non-Windows OSes via GL.  The only reason to use D3D 10 is if you plan to support the ~5 gamers using Vista RTM.  GL is an option, though (IMHO) not a great one if you don't need the extra platform support.

 

There are even a few nice D3D 11.1 features that are very handy for debugging that you can conditionally enable if available.  Windows 7 doesn't have "full" 11.1 but it does have a Platform Update available that enables parts of it, primarily those you'd use for development and testing.

 

I see thanks for the advice, i can see why you would want to use D3D 11 Especially with the hardware support and the D3D 11.1 Debugging Features sound like a nice addition as well. Thank you for the nice points and advice, they are helpful.


Edited by Zero_Breaker, 20 January 2014 - 07:29 AM.





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