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What Are Your Opinions About Various Languages ?


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#1 Code Fox   Members   -  Reputation: 2166

Posted 22 February 2014 - 01:51 AM

We have seen posts about the things you hate about programming languages, and the things you love about programming languages, but we have not had a post like this yet.

 

 What are your personal opinions  (based on your own experience) about different programming languages you have used?

 

 

Here are some of my "IMHO" -

 

Python

 Great learning tool for beginner programmers. Completely worthless with out third party addons (which often times are badly documented)

 

LSL

 Syntax just like if you ripped out "implements" from Java, and turned it into it's own language. Really frustrating having the same function used as a return type for so many different calls !!! Boolean nightmare to get this language to work right.

 

AWCode

 Very obscure language that is quite helpful in 3D space, but completely useless anywhere else

 

 JavaScript

I very rarely use it, as I find PHP more helpful when doing web sites. Even when doing <canvas> functions, I end up with PHP spitting out JavaScript code.

 

 PHP

 Best web development language I have ever used. Easy language, and very versatile. Also over 80% of all sites on the web use PHP

 

 Java

 Best language for developing "everyday" applications, and 2D games. Runs on almost every computer. Excellent native libraries with all the programming tools I need.

 

 C++

 Good language for "process intensive" programs, however is overkill for what a lot of folks use it for. Painfully slow to develop with. Language structure makes it very easy to write "spaghetti code". A nightmare to debug.

 

 FORTH

 I ran across this language in a MineCraft mod. Why do people still use something this outdated ?!

 

Lua

 It's a boring scripting language. Feels like some one rewrote Python with a few minor language changes.

 

Ruby

 A train wreck of syntax. It is weird to use, as I feel like it's a mix of Python, PHP, and C++ that was thrown into a blender. I think this language would have died out long ago if it wasn't for Rails .

 

 C#

This language feels like a complete mess - often times being counterintuitive

 

 

 

 

 



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#2 Sirisian   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 1894

Posted 22 February 2014 - 02:09 AM

PHP

 Best web development language I have ever used. Easy language, and very versatile. Also over 80% of all sites on the web use PHP

You should check out node.js. The ease of use of JS with powerful libraries for every known API. Also sites use PHP because they're programmed ad hoc which is basically PHP's strong suit.

 

 Java

 Best language for developing "everyday" applications, and 2D games. Runs on almost every computer. Excellent native libraries with all the programming tools I need.

Maybe in 1990s or before 2006. There's just so many easier choices. It has a learning curve, but C# and WPF is probably one of the most elegant followed by ExtJS in my limited experience.

 

 C#

This language feels like a complete mess - often times being counterintuitive

You can't just leave it at that. What is unintuitive about C#? It's mostly just the best parts of C++ and Java combined into a language.
 

I already listed my personal opinions in the other thread.



#3 Nathan2222_old   Members   -  Reputation: -400

Posted 22 February 2014 - 02:57 AM

 FORTH
I ran across this language in a MineCraft mod. Why do people still use something this outdated ?!

i don't really know about FORTH but is it worse than BASIC (not vb)?
go FORTH and program :)

UNREAL ENGINE 4:
Total LOC: ~3M Lines
Total Languages: ~32
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#4 creatures-of-gaia.com   Members   -  Reputation: 381

Posted 22 February 2014 - 02:58 AM

I'll add a few exotic ones to the mix ;)

 

Haskell

 

No state, no variable assignment, purely functional (almost). But somehow it feels like in an ivory tower. You can do some very complex stuff with a few lines, but on the other hand, some rather simple io tasks quickly become rather contrived. For computational stuff it's heaven, for IO stuff, it's hell.

 

Scheme

 

Lego blocks! You can do everything you want with it and combine it in all possible ways. Like chess, the basics are simple, mastering it can take a lifetime. It's funny, interesting, deep. The code could do anything, including rewriting itself, which is somehow frightening too!

 

HaXe

 

In my humble opinion, the best I've seen! Actually, it's the only language I've experienced so far that I'm totally satisfied with. It's simple, flexible, intuitive  and basically has what you need. The only downside is that the community, tools and libs are rather limited.



#5 Hodgman   Moderators   -  Reputation: 37958

Posted 22 February 2014 - 04:00 AM

A bit tongue in cheek - 
 
Python
Great learning environment for beginners, and allows veterans to write very clean, concise and expressive code. Not usable in multi-core environments.
 
JavaScript
You're working in a web-browser and don't have a choice.
It's actually a very interesting language that gets a bad reputation because there's just so many tutorials available for it, with 99% of them teaching you bad ways of using the language.
 
 PHP
One of the most inconsistent languages ever. Has a huge standard library (basically containing every good open-source C library), but the conventions and styles used by each part are completely different. Had a long evolution from a HTML generator into a fully-fledged general purpose language, with a lot of deprecation and strangely implemented features along the way.
Nonetheless, extremely useful for writing all sorts of applications that will run on almost any webserver ever.
 
C++
Too dangerous and low-level for most applications, but is the defacto standard for "systems programming" tasks.
 
C
For use on platforms where the compilers haven't been updated for over 10 years, so C++ isn't supported laugh.png
Insanely useful for reusable code, because the ABI is actually standardized (unlike C++). Almost every other language is compatible with C, making C an obvious choice for writing low-level systems/components for other languages. Often used to glue together different systems.
 
Java
Supposedly a C++ replacement, with a WORA implementation.
Actually a complete abomination, written by OO obsessives who didn't actually understand OO at all, and thus corrupted a generation of programmers with a perversion of OO.
 
C#
Java done right.
Also contains enough additions now where it can potentially be used for low-level systems programming tasks where C/C++ would normally reign.
 
Lua
Great minimalist extension language. If you want to embed a VM into something, then Lua is a great choice for it's focus on being easy to embed (partly due to it being implemented as a C library with a simple API). It also has good performance for an interpreted language, and has good JIT support across different platforms.
Very flexible in it's use due to being multi-paradigm -- doesn't come with OOP support, but is flexible enough that you can implement the core OOP constructs, such as classes!
As with python - Great learning environment for beginners, and allows veterans to write very clean, concise and expressive code.
 
ISPC
A great C derivative focussed on extracting SIMD performance.
 
HLSL
It runs on GPUs. Nuff said.
If there were a CPU compiler, I'd use if for general purpose tasks too tongue.png
 
SQL
You're talking to a database. Good for even non-database guys to learn, just to get away from the imperative style for a while.


#6 Secretmapper   Members   -  Reputation: 911

Posted 22 February 2014 - 04:11 AM

Sorry, but some of your statements just miss really. Yes, I know it's just opinion, but just so other readers won't be misled:

 

 JavaScript

I very rarely use it, as I find PHP more helpful when doing web sites. Even when doing <canvas> functions, I end up with PHP spitting out JavaScript code.

 

PHP spitting out Javascript Code!? Code Smell right there. JS is pretty powerful, and with Node.JS on the rise...

 

 PHP

 Best web development language I have ever used. Easy language, and very versatile. Also over 80% of all sites on the web use PHP

 

 

Ah, PHP, the inconsistent naming schemes, the fractal of bad design, the incredibly verbose function names ( mysql_real_escape_string), and this picture:

http://www.codinghorror.com/.a/6a0120a85dcdae970b017742d249d5970d-800wi

 

 

 Java

 Best language for developing "everyday" applications, and 2D games. Runs on almost every computer. Excellent native libraries with all the programming tools I need.

 

 C#

This language feels like a complete mess - often times being counterintuitive

 

Jeff Atwood, co-founder of SO:

It is thanks to Anders' expert guidance that .NET started out such a remarkably well designed language – literally what Java should have been on every conceivable level 

Where C# can stand for .NET in this context.



#7 plutgamer   Members   -  Reputation: 143

Posted 22 February 2014 - 05:45 AM

 

 PHP

 Best web development language I have ever used. Easy language, and very versatile. Also over 80% of all sites on the web use PHP

 

Lua

 It's a boring scripting language. Feels like some one rewrote Python with a few minor language changes.

 

 C#

This language feels like a complete mess - often times being counterintuitive

 

Sorry, but I just can't take you post seriously. PHP is an absolute trainwreck, and I'm scared that you don't see why. (If you don't, take a look at this: http://me.veekun.com/blog/2012/04/09/php-a-fractal-of-bad-design/)

 

Lua is indeed quite a plain language without batteries included and somewhat too BASIC like syntax. But comparing it to Python? Okay, it's a dynamic programming language with functions as first class objects and all that stuff, but it is quite different from Python, not just a few minor changes.

 

And about C#. How can you call C# a complete mess and say that Java is good for everyday use. Java is a great language, don't get me wrong. But once I learned and became fluent in C++, I started noticing how much code you must write in Java to produce the same thing in a couple of lines in C++ or C#.

 

I see C# as Java with all its bad things removed, it is much more clean than Java while retaining the "feel" of Java (in a good way). The shitty thing about C# is that it has almost no third party libraries and sucks for game development if you don't want to use XNA (which is one of the best frameworks ever made, but it's not cross platform, and monogame is still in its early phases).

 

To give an example of where C# is way better and cleaner than Java, take a look at this: http://nancyfx.org

 

It's like you can rebuild a language's internals without using shitty solutions like reflection. I mean, you can get a web server going with just 5 lines. In Java, even if everything was so batteries included as this, you would still need to write much, much more code than that.

 

EDIT:

 


Java
Supposedly a C++ replacement, with a WORA implementation.
Actually a complete abomination, written by OO obsessives who didn't actually understand OO at all, and thus corrupted a generation of programmers with a perversion of OO.

 

Like Hodgman said, Java is too obsessed with OO, I totally forgot about that. I'm guilty of it too, where others would have just put a global variable in a namespace, I need to find an OO solution that is totally unneeded. After some thinking I almost always go with global variables for little objects and service locators for big objects that are used many times. Singletons and all that crap is the root of all evil when designing a program.


Edited by plutgamer, 22 February 2014 - 06:05 AM.

I mean, if 10 years from now, when you are doing something quick and dirty, you suddenly visualize that I am looking over your shoulders and say to yourself "Dijkstra would not have liked this", well, that would be enough immortality for me.

 

-Edsger Wybe Dijkstra


#8 Nathan2222_old   Members   -  Reputation: -400

Posted 22 February 2014 - 06:06 AM

Sorry, but I just can't take you post seriously. PHP is an absolute trainwreck, and I'm scared that you don't see why. (If you don't, take a look at this: http://me.veekun.com/blog/2012/04/09/php-a-fractal-of-bad-design/

+1
That's the one. Everything is bad in the toolbox, yet the carpenters still use it till someone tries to open the door and it falls down.
Are they afraid of change?

UNREAL ENGINE 4:
Total LOC: ~3M Lines
Total Languages: ~32
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#9 ProtectedMode   Members   -  Reputation: 1334

Posted 22 February 2014 - 06:26 AM

To add one other language to the list: D.

 

I've done no big projects using D because the lag of libraries, but for the rest I like the language. It's like C++ improved, just like C#, but runs on all platforms natively... Can't anyone create a XNA port? :)



#10 Nathan2222_old   Members   -  Reputation: -400

Posted 22 February 2014 - 07:08 AM

. . . Can't anyone create a XNA port? :)


that anyone can be you :)

UNREAL ENGINE 4:
Total LOC: ~3M Lines
Total Languages: ~32
smile.png
--
GREAT QUOTES:
I can do ALL things through Christ - Jesus Christ
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Logic will get you from A-Z, imagination gets you everywhere - Albert Einstein
--
The problems of the world cannot be solved by skeptics or cynics whose horizons are limited by the obvious realities. - John F. Kennedy


#11 Code Fox   Members   -  Reputation: 2166

Posted 22 February 2014 - 09:27 AM

Every time I have used C# it feels like I am fighting the language to get anything useful done.

 


But once I learned and became fluent in C++, I started noticing how much code you must write in Java to produce the same thing in a couple of lines in C++

 

 Never compare C++ to Java when referring to line count - C++ looses every time with all of it's tedious class declarations and header files.



The Internet is so big, so powerful and pointless

that for some people it is a complete substitute for life .

~ Andrew Brown


#12 minibutmany   Members   -  Reputation: 1817

Posted 22 February 2014 - 12:10 PM

Personally I like how easy it is to develop a server in Java on a windows machine, and then send it over to a linux server, and then show the game off to your friends on their mac, without having to use a cross-compiler...but there are obviously some issues with Java. Maybe I'm just not using it right, but I have not yet had a good experience at all with Java's swing UI libraries. 

 

BUT honestly the only real reason I like java and use it is because I have spent the most time with it, if I could go back a few years I wish I had learned c# or c++ instead.


Edited by minibutmany, 22 February 2014 - 12:12 PM.

Stay gold, Pony Boy.

#13 SamLowry   Members   -  Reputation: 1747

Posted 22 February 2014 - 12:38 PM

Every time I have used C# it feels like I am fighting the language to get anything useful done.

 


But once I learned and became fluent in C++, I started noticing how much code you must write in Java to produce the same thing in a couple of lines in C++

 

 Never compare C++ any language to Java when referring to line count - C++ looses every time with all of it's tedious class declarations and header files. Java loses due to its maddening verbosity.

 

I find it strange that C# works against you, as the language is essentially an improved superset of Java. What exactly bothers you? Anyway, IMO, C# is what java should've been: a language with a consistent type system, generics that work, type inference, support for functional programming, a (more) coherent library, ...



#14 Memories are Better   Prime Members   -  Reputation: 769

Posted 22 February 2014 - 03:32 PM

edit: nvm, it turns out he was indeed being serious -.-

 

I honestly thought these forums were past comparison wars, for months I haven't even seen one. Sure you get the subtle anti-managed language or anti-MS comment here and there but not a full on war on a lot of languages. Shame on you Shippou and yes it is a language war as you just degraded several languages with single vague statements, nothing good would ever come out of doing that.


Edited by Strix_Overflow, 22 February 2014 - 03:57 PM.


#15 Code Fox   Members   -  Reputation: 2166

Posted 22 February 2014 - 04:47 PM

I honestly thought these forums were past comparison wars, for months I haven't even seen one. Sure you get the subtle anti-managed language or anti-MS comment here and there but not a full on war on a lot of languages. Shame on you Shippou and yes it is a language war as you just degraded several languages with single vague statements, nothing good would ever come out of doing that.

 I am aware that a lot of folks who visit these forums do not speak English as a first language, and can have issues with comprehending certain words, phrases, or "slang" that is used.

 I am going to assume you do not know what the phrase "personal opinion" means.

I would direct you to THIS LINK to find out the meaning of the phrase.



The Internet is so big, so powerful and pointless

that for some people it is a complete substitute for life .

~ Andrew Brown


#16 TheChubu   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 6286

Posted 22 February 2014 - 05:03 PM

wow. much Java hate. <3 Java.


"I AM ZE EMPRAH OPENGL 3.3 THE CORE, I DEMAND FROM THEE ZE SHADERZ AND MATRIXEZ"

 

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#17 Memories are Better   Prime Members   -  Reputation: 769

Posted 22 February 2014 - 05:39 PM

 

I honestly thought these forums were past comparison wars, for months I haven't even seen one. Sure you get the subtle anti-managed language or anti-MS comment here and there but not a full on war on a lot of languages. Shame on you Shippou and yes it is a language war as you just degraded several languages with single vague statements, nothing good would ever come out of doing that.

 I am aware that a lot of folks who visit these forums do not speak English as a first language, and can have issues with comprehending certain words, phrases, or "slang" that is used.

 I am going to assume you do not know what the phrase "personal opinion" means.

I would direct you to THIS LINK to find out the meaning of the phrase.

 

 

On my reply I was so close to adding "I know you said personal opinion but it doesn't change the fact that it still would result in a not very constructive language war which we can already see beginning, saying 'I hate all Apple, it is a useless company and their products suck' is still unnecessary and not constructive whether or not I said it is my opinion or not" among other things but I decided to remove it because I thought, he wouldn't be so defensive and mention something that was read in the first min.

 

So let me make my point here clear, you don't have to let us know it is your opinion or not, on forums, social networks or anything for that matter unless backed by citation or facts it will always be dismissed as opinion.

 

Oh and in my 'personal opinion', those who go out of their way and encourage a language war or try to convert others in using their language by degrading theirs when no opinion was even asked is insecure and usually shows this very easily. You can actually spot the same pattern in those threads, or vids for that matter too. It starts of mild and subtle trying to get the impression across that it is casual and quickly devolves in a "your language is bad, mine is the best" way the same way we witness people of different religions argue.

 

Now I am not saying your aim was to sell your language or that you wanted to convert others, I feel I need to mention this as there was some confusion with my other post and you may comment on what I said above. My point was saying one line critical sentences is no different that me saying "I hate French, the language is a mess" or "No one speaks Russian so it is pointless to learn" or "English is the only decent language" then getting defensive when people call me a troll or think I am causing a war. Perhaps next time you could explain on your one line remarks in detail because whether or not you say it is your opinion or not, all it sounds like you are doing is making a very large twitter post simply saying "I hate this,.. I like this" over and over without providing any content.

 

Edit: My language example was purely an example, I love French and Russian, I was just trying to make a point and hope no one gets offended by it


Edited by Strix_Overflow, 22 February 2014 - 05:46 PM.


#18 jbadams   Senior Staff   -  Reputation: 22176

Posted 22 February 2014 - 07:00 PM

This really isn't very different at all from the other (still very recent and active) topics linked to in the original post, and it doesn't seem to be going in a very good direction, so I'm closing this one -- please share any thoughts or opinions you might have in one of the other two pre-existing topics. smile.png






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