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A new type of TBS


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#1 QuickSilverCarpet   Members   -  Reputation: 131

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Posted 27 February 2014 - 06:19 AM

Hi Community! I'm working on an independent game project right now as the sole member of my team. The project, which I am woefully under qualified to tackle, is a new type of economic/guerrilla warfare simulator. It is a city simulator with armed and unarmed conflict from varying factions that arise organically within the city and fight for control of resources and influence on the cities government and businesses. As opposed to playing as a leader of a city of faction with in a city, each player plays as a Vampire attempting to manipulate mortals into pursuing their agenda by changing the incentives and circumstances they live by. You essential try to gain control of the cities economy from the bottom up by manipulating individuals and organizations. The moral alignment system revolves around which principles an individual holds, as opposed to good/evil dichotomies, and serves to regulate ai behavior and poses an obstacle to player characters. Whenever a player or npc makes a decisions that betrays their principles they suffer from cognitive dissonance which, once accumulated to a certain point, results in moral decay (the antisocial inversion of previously held principles) or mental decay (loss of skills). In this sense it is only rational for an ai or player to not be a hypocrite, but this poses many dilemmas when competing for resources with other individuals who do not have the same principles.

Sponsor:

#2 QuickSilverCarpet   Members   -  Reputation: 131

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Posted 27 February 2014 - 06:34 AM

My experience coding primarily is in Texas Instruments Basic, but I also took 3 years of programing c++/java in highschool years and years ago. I have lots of experience with table top roleplaying games. My primary influences are The Wire, World of Darkness games, diplomacy, and Sim City. Once I get a competant programer to join my team I plan working with them on a combat prototype as well as some sort of moral dilemma adventure prototype, both of which will be made available to the public. I intend to work on the fluff and art assets as well as game mechanics and high level design along with my programer. Most of the graphics and general aesthetic sense will be social commentary and/or photojournalism.

#3 ShiftyCake   Members   -  Reputation: 486

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Posted 27 February 2014 - 07:47 AM

I lack understanding of that which you want. Are you perchance looking at recruiting other members for the concept you wish to implement? If so, I believe the Classifieds is where you should've posted, as they have a hobbyist section for people looking to recruit members without payment, to make a game.

 

If this is not a recruitment post, please state your purpose.


If, at any point, what I post is hard to understand, tell me. I am bad at projecting my thoughts into real words, so I appreciate the knowledge that I need to edit my post.

 

I am not a professional writer, nor a professional game designer. Please, understand that everything you read is simply an opinion of mind and should not, at any point in time, be taken as a credible answer unless validated by others.

 

I do take brief bouts of disappearance so don't worry if I either don't reply to you or miss certain things. I am quite a lazy fellow.


#4 QuickSilverCarpet   Members   -  Reputation: 131

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Posted 28 February 2014 - 12:45 PM

I'm not recruiting right now as I don't have enough of my written outline organized or typed up. Just opening things up for discussion

#5 QuickSilverCarpet   Members   -  Reputation: 131

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Posted 28 February 2014 - 05:56 PM

An X (9 as of now) dimensional matrix holds all possible intersections of moral dilemmas. When a principle or principles are betrayed because of pragmatic concerns, cognitive dissonance is spread along all relevant matrix cells and the blurred 1 to 1.5 steps. When any cell exceeds a certain set of variables, mental or moral decay occurs. Moral decay results in inverted principles that compel antisocial behavior towards individuals and institutions that espouse opposite principles. Mental decay results in skill restrictions. An economic value is placed on skill use so that moral behavior can be weighed against economic incentives. All skill "rolls" are completely nonrandom, except for who gets shot in gun battles. Character traits are passed on memetically to fully grown random children offspring that periodically pop into existence after graduation or dropping out or further education.

#6 QuickSilverCarpet   Members   -  Reputation: 131

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Posted 28 February 2014 - 07:04 PM

All crafting tools are either highly expensive specialized industrial equipment or incredibly inefficient due to the nearly complete monopolization of the means of production. The home life is nearly nonexistant. Nearly all means of the individual being self sufficient without participating in trade are wiped out by ubermonopolistic capitalism. You can make your own products and subsist, partially, but producing goods to sell independently is so inefficient that one cannot be an independent worker. The profit margin and scale of production only exists for the largest corporations, the already wealthy entrepreneur, the black marketeer, or the criminal capable of stealing entire pieces of industrial manufacturing equipment. Monopolies are both horizontal and vertical. Manufactures directly wholesale to their retail outlets. The grocery store is the one exception. Each super-chain store is in itself a member of a retail monopoly that sells EVERYTHING.

#7 powerneg   Members   -  Reputation: 1305

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Posted 28 February 2014 - 07:11 PM

Interesting concept, i 'd love to see this come into existence, a sandbox mode to play around with would be a must.

 

A few questions:

Both AI(factions?) and players(vampires) fall under this moral system and they both can make the choice to "betray" their morals ?

(it seems both more difficult to make an AI behave "intelligent" and it might make more sense to a player if the AI is more passive, assuming players are supposed to be in conflict with eachother)

What "resources" will the player be after ?



#8 QuickSilverCarpet   Members   -  Reputation: 131

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Posted 28 February 2014 - 07:14 PM

Groups form around shared goals and principles. Business Groups attempt to carve out a niche in this hostile market, but the cards are always stacked against them unless they resort to illegal means. Religious groups espouse principles, provide charity, and resolve dissonance. Charitable groups provide a means to buy off cognitive dissonance. A group becomes a front when it's actual objective differs from any of the acceptable actual objectives for the group type, but the nominal objective remains acceptable.

#9 QuickSilverCarpet   Members   -  Reputation: 131

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Posted 28 February 2014 - 07:30 PM

Player compete over blood, money, and access to useful mortals. AI lives and breathes in the sandbox and has all of the nonsupernatural methods of manipulation at their hands. Player characters actively seek to degrade their principles because they are an obstacle. They have to split blood between increasing skills and resolving their dissonance. AI completely run the world and the groups are just an extension of their actions that allows them to work together and pretend like they aren't disobeying their own code of conduct.

#10 QuickSilverCarpet   Members   -  Reputation: 131

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Posted 28 February 2014 - 10:25 PM

http://pobrth.tumblr.com/

#11 ShiftyCake   Members   -  Reputation: 486

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Posted 01 March 2014 - 04:08 AM

you're looking at a long and difficult road with a game like that. I'd suggest, if you are willing to commit, recruiting a concept artist straight away. He'll be able to bring visual to the ideas and concepts you're creating in your rough draft. This not only stimulates your own imagination, but it provides a glimpse into the game for people who are interested.

 

Once you've gotten the core concepts down, and are starting to flesh out your ideas, I'd suggest either start looking for a second designer to have them help you out (they'll pick up things you've missed and offer new ideas that didn't occur to you) or make another post about it on this forum (I'd suggest the former).

 

Then you'd want to look at getting programmers and a level designer on your team, the programmers will start creating the mechanics of the concepts you've already finished, and the level designer will start making the basic layouts of the maps.

 

After that, I'd look at getting your graphics designers and music creators, they're unnecessary until late in the development stage, as both require a full concept to work well.

 

Other advice I'd say is to create a blog instead of a tumblr account, and give updates and information on what you're doing. We don't need your entire drafts and concepts, in fact I'd recommend you stop right now. Many people would be self-inclined to take your work and create their own crappy version of the game and claim copyright. As long as you don't give out specific details, posting about things you're going to implement among other stuff would help you create a small community around the game, which helps a LOT (more then people realise).


If, at any point, what I post is hard to understand, tell me. I am bad at projecting my thoughts into real words, so I appreciate the knowledge that I need to edit my post.

 

I am not a professional writer, nor a professional game designer. Please, understand that everything you read is simply an opinion of mind and should not, at any point in time, be taken as a credible answer unless validated by others.

 

I do take brief bouts of disappearance so don't worry if I either don't reply to you or miss certain things. I am quite a lazy fellow.


#12 QuickSilverCarpet   Members   -  Reputation: 131

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Posted 01 March 2014 - 10:10 AM

With regards to concept art, that's an excellent idea. I have already started to go out and get some photographs for the eventual graphic designer to photochop up, but they are still few and far between, and I haven't really put in the requisite effort. Recurring Visual Motifs: Clenched Fists Daggers Cards and Poker Chips Illicit Drugs, esp. pills and syringes Wolves Isolation Chess The world as a game Blood Parasites, esp Worms Skulls Blood and Money together Handguns = swords and daggers Longguns = spears and lances Visual Styles Hyper realistic photojournalism Glam goth juxtaposed with unsettling social realism Art for disturbed children Mugshots, line ups, and crimescene photos Still-lives from the homes of the mad, monsters, vigalantes, radicals, wannabe demonhunters, the depraved elite, addicts, and criminals Sterile charts and spreadsheets Foreboding cityscapes Most of this imagery will occur in interface backgrounds as the entirety of the game is in either isometric game grid or in text/chart based interface. As far as level design goes, I envision the game eventually being almost entirely a sand box procedure affair where the city is built around the actions of the populace and the legislative priorities of the city council. Bus routes, sewage precincints, zoning, and road planning will all be handled by seperate ai's that create a city optomized for what ever activity the legislature deems most important. So, level designers may only be necisarry initially, unless there are single player mission. My plan is to first develop the combat prototype and a text adventure that tests the morallity system simulataneously, build and economic sim with morallity system, incorporate group consciousness, legislation, and procedural generation into said economic sim, THEN implement combat. Setting up the conditions for when civilized society breaks into violence organically is going to be one of the toughest challenges. After all this is done, I imagine, supernatural elements will be added to differentiate the PCs from the NPCs, but prior to this point the prototypes should be simple enough that the ai's should have all of the same options as player characters.

#13 ShiftyCake   Members   -  Reputation: 486

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Posted 01 March 2014 - 05:38 PM

A level designer can be more then simply create this map this way. A good level designer can create a map dynamically, so that what you wish to implement can and will be implemented efficiently.

 

That is to say, a poorly designed map will limit your creativity within map changes. Even if you wish the game to be dynamic within one environment, I'd be making sure you make that initial map right.

 

If you're looking at creating an economic sim to begin with, then I suggest you use what I like to refer to as the 2-step game. Basically, a 2-step game is where you finish your economic sim at version 1.0 as a completed form and charge, say, half of what you wish to charge in total. Once that's done, you immediately move on to creating version 2.0 with the funding you just received, which includes combat and any other mechanics you wish to implement and change the price to the total of what you wish it to cost.

 

In other words, you'll have a cheap beta for people who wish to support you, or get it for less money, and then it'll go to full price upon official release. You could include an alpha version into this, but frankly I find that a lot of alpha's are actually detrimental rather then helpful. Unless you have a working game already in alpha, all you're doing is making people second-guess the game, and review it poorly due to 'lack of any gameplay'.


If, at any point, what I post is hard to understand, tell me. I am bad at projecting my thoughts into real words, so I appreciate the knowledge that I need to edit my post.

 

I am not a professional writer, nor a professional game designer. Please, understand that everything you read is simply an opinion of mind and should not, at any point in time, be taken as a credible answer unless validated by others.

 

I do take brief bouts of disappearance so don't worry if I either don't reply to you or miss certain things. I am quite a lazy fellow.


#14 QuickSilverCarpet   Members   -  Reputation: 131

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Posted 02 March 2014 - 05:32 AM

Thanks for the advice Shifty. It's been instrumental in forming my plans. I also appologize for the formatting. For some reason my antiscript software has been breaking the formatting of my posts.

#15 Orymus3   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 6464

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Posted 03 March 2014 - 10:30 AM


which I am woefully under qualified to tackle

 

Excellent. Now go out and learn what you can to achieve this :)






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