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Democratic Chess


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#1 PhilObyte   Members   -  Reputation: 385

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Posted 27 February 2014 - 10:04 AM

Hello Community,

some of you may have seen "Twitch plays Pokemon".

On the site there is a stream of an emulator that runs an old pokemon game. With the chat, you can press the keys of the virtual gameboy which leads to pure chaos, with sometimes 100,000 players.

 

This gave me the idea for an experiment: what would happen if two large groups would play chess against each other? Just one board and one game. Every team member can vote for the next turn. When a timer reaches zero, the turn with most of the votes is executed. When both teams are large, they would be exactly equally strong (in theory).

 

What do you think about it?

Phil


Edited by PhilObyte, 27 February 2014 - 10:04 AM.


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#2 Simon West   Members   -  Reputation: 119

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Posted 27 February 2014 - 10:24 AM

Well it would depend on where you put this and who plays.  If it is the general public it will end up like elections with compulsory voting, no one will have any idea what is actually happening and more or less just pushing random buttons until something does happen.  

 

If you got a control group that included chess players only then this would certainly lead to an interesting experiment.  But like any group voting system the lowest common denominator always wins, so if you had 1 grand master and 99 high school student chess players you could guarantee that after the 3rd or 4th turns the votes of the 99 will not match that of the grand master. 



#3 aregee   Members   -  Reputation: 1026

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Posted 27 February 2014 - 12:05 PM

This sort of experiment was done last year in regards with world champion chess player Magnus Carlsen.

 

http://www.aftenposten.no/spesial/chess/Chess-game-Norway-vs-the-world-7373788.html#.Uw98m_xdV7I

 

It is now closed:

 

http://www.aftenposten.no/henvisninger/henvisninger_skjult/Norway-vs-the-World---closed-7376401.html#.Uw982fxdV7I

 

And the reason given was:

 

"Hei, Vi stenger nå spillet. For de som lurer, så skyldes ikke dette at nordmenn bruker proxier for å ødelegge for verdenslaget. Det skyldes misbruk av annet slag.

Hi, We are stopping the game due to abuse."

 

Translated:

 

"Hi, we are now closing the game.  For those that wonder why, it is not because of norwegians using proxies to destroy for the world team. It is abuse of a different kind."

 

http://www.aftenposten.no/henvisninger/henvisninger_skjult/Delta-i-Norge-vs-verden---stengt-7369941.html#.Uw987_xdV7I

 

I am not sure exactly what kind of abuse it might have been, but I am sure there are challenges regarding doing something like this - including the thing they said was not the reason.


Edited by aregee, 27 February 2014 - 12:08 PM.


#4 powerneg   Members   -  Reputation: 1463

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Posted 27 February 2014 - 12:17 PM

Hmm, i once played a 2v2 chess game, was kinda funny.

Off course we didn't vote, but we also agreed not to talk about our moves, and take took turns taking the team's turn, so chaos ruled.

 

Voting with ~100 other players souds boring, there s basically no control, most people don't even vote on their own governments(which actually influence them).

 

There is also a chess-card-package, that "changes" the game a bit, for example one card says pawns now attack streightforward instead of left/right forward,

such thing added could spice up the game.

 

I'm not sure whether players would realy be interested in something like this, but since everyone knows how to play chess it's easy to get them to play a few games,

do make sure the flow of the game is high though.



#5 Meatsack   Members   -  Reputation: 1023

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Posted 27 February 2014 - 12:25 PM


There is also a chess-card-package, that "changes" the game a bit, for example one card says pawns now attack streightforward instead of left/right forward,
such thing added could spice up the game.

 

The card game supplement is called "Knightmare Chess" and it's really fun.

Here's the Wiki Entry on it.

I had a friend who bought both sets around the year 2000 and we played it a lot at work.

(Hey, I was working 3rd shift in a call center and it was slow at times.)


Writer, Game Maker, Day-Dreamer...  Check out all the wonderful things I've thought up at Meatsack's Workshop!

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#6 ambershee   Members   -  Reputation: 528

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Posted 28 February 2014 - 06:22 AM

I believe the concept would work quite well, but I would remove voting as much as possible. Instead of voting, allow each player on each team to 'make' their proposed move, and when either the timer runs out, or all players have proposed their move, pick the most popular one. In the case of a tie, force players to reassign their votes between the tied options.

It's not quite democracy, because there's no discussion involved, but it will probably move much more quickly and removes a lot of the player administrative overhead.



#7 Unduli   Members   -  Reputation: 1060

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Posted 28 February 2014 - 07:47 AM

Just wondered how it would work if a giant chessboard with each players have full chess set and battling on a map with some special rules (regulating joint moves of friendly players or etc) (even with some obstacles or opportunities to use board)


Edited by Unduli, 28 February 2014 - 07:47 AM.


#8 ambershee   Members   -  Reputation: 528

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Posted 28 February 2014 - 08:17 AM

Multiplayer chess boards like you describe have existed for centuries - there's an Indian variant for four players dating back to around 1500, but I've also seen eight player boards.

My personal favourite variant is Diplomat Chess, notably because the bishops move in such a way that they can change colour.
794px-Diplomat_chess.jpg

 

...but that's getting off topic.



#9 ActiveUnique   Members   -  Reputation: 854

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Posted 01 March 2014 - 10:25 PM

I am not sure exactly what kind of abuse it might have been, but I am sure there are challenges regarding doing something like this - including the thing they said was not the reason.

 

 

Creative abuse of a captive audience of course.

 

xf0XnNL.png


I've read about the idea guy. It's a serious misnomer. You really want to avoid the lazy team.


#10 PhilObyte   Members   -  Reputation: 385

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Posted 29 March 2014 - 08:56 AM

Thanks for your feedback! Unfortunately, I know too little about networking and browser-programming to do this (and I have no large group I could test the idea with), so it will remain a thought experiment.


Edited by PhilObyte, 29 April 2014 - 11:17 AM.


#11 Mratthew   Members   -  Reputation: 1581

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Posted 31 March 2014 - 05:43 PM

How many Facebook friends do you have? Pretty easy test bed. Build a chess board with free move pieces and send it to all your friends. Send out a notice for a white move. Collect white moves. Post the updated board with the voted on move(maybe some of the the popular votes) and the notice for a black move. Take a re-vote on ties. You might have to do a lot of the initial work by msging or posting unless you know how to dig into facebook. But either way you'll get some feedback. The unique idea behind this experiment is allowing everyone to vote black and white. Letting the socialization between moves dictate the "side" the players end up favoring. By making it a free move chess board players can show off their knowledge of the game and their willingness to "play along". It would be interesting if you made it through a game. 



#12 PhilObyte   Members   -  Reputation: 385

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Posted 30 May 2014 - 05:25 PM

How many Facebook friends do you have? Pretty easy test bed. Build a chess board with free move pieces and send it to all your friends. Send out a notice for a white move. Collect white moves. Post the updated board with the voted on move(maybe some of the the popular votes) and the notice for a black move. Take a re-vote on ties. You might have to do a lot of the initial work by msging or posting unless you know how to dig into facebook. But either way you'll get some feedback. The unique idea behind this experiment is allowing everyone to vote black and white. Letting the socialization between moves dictate the "side" the players end up favoring. By making it a free move chess board players can show off their knowledge of the game and their willingness to "play along". It would be interesting if you made it through a game. 

 

Sounds exciting, but I would need to learn from the beginning, I have no clue how multiplayer and databases work. It stays a cool idea, I maybe realize in the future ;-)






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