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Unreal Engine 4


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#1 Alundra   Members   -  Reputation: 886

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Posted 19 March 2014 - 11:56 AM

Hi all,

This news will hurts Unity a lot :

Unreal Engine 4 is open for all for 19$ per months, 5% royalties !

https://www.unrealengine.com/



Sponsor:

#2 Glass_Knife   Moderators   -  Reputation: 4770

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Posted 19 March 2014 - 12:02 PM

I like where this is headed.  


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#3 Necrolis   Members   -  Reputation: 1355

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Posted 19 March 2014 - 12:17 PM

I really like the fact that they decided to open source this on GitHub (seems the repo isn't public yet, even though their site claims so...), I love spelunking through AAA engines; the tutorials look pretty great as well.

 

What I can't understand is if/where you are able to download the UE4 UDK without paying the fee (as the registration says you can continue to use it even with a cancelled sub, you just won't get updates), ie: if I just want to bugger around and don't plan on releasing anything, am I still due for a "once-off" $20 payment?.

 

 

EDIT: I think I get the github thing now, seems you need to register through the UE portal, then link your existing github account to the UE portal, for some reason I thought the page was showing people how to sigh up to github...


Edited by Necrolis, 19 March 2014 - 12:22 PM.


#4 BCullis   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 1813

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Posted 19 March 2014 - 12:50 PM

Coming from someone actively using Unity and enjoying it, this looks glorious :)


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#5 Rld_   Members   -  Reputation: 1498

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Posted 19 March 2014 - 01:42 PM


This news will hurts Unity a lot

 

I don't think it will hurt Unity, not by a lot anyway. Of course this is exiting for everyone even remotely interested in game development, and I can't wait for the "how do I do this in C++ with the unreal engine" that are likely to arise.

 

The reason why I don't think this will hurt Unity is simply because of the complexity involved in getting something to work in the unreal engine in contrast to Unity, just the fact that the unreal engine lets you use C++ makes the unreal engine "harder to use" as it will involve more to take into consideration. With unity, you can have a working game in just a few lines of code (so to speak).

 

I think this is more likely to cause a shift where the more serious people/studios that want to do some more advanced stuff with their game will end up having a favor towards the unreal engine whereas people/studios with little experience/expertise or just for small games will still benefit (or also prefer) unity. Or at least, I hope people understand how to use the right tools for the right job ;)

 

I'm curious to see where this is headed though! smile.png


Edited by Rld_, 19 March 2014 - 01:42 PM.


#6 AgentC   Members   -  Reputation: 1390

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Posted 19 March 2014 - 02:23 PM

I could see this hurting smaller C++ engines, like C4 or LeadWerks. Though, even then there are cases where all the power and complex architecture of Unreal would be just an unnecessary burden, and those engines would be more appropriate. And from Epic's own announcement it seems the system demands of UE4 are still high so far.


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#7 Chris_F   Members   -  Reputation: 2435

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Posted 19 March 2014 - 02:26 PM

 


This news will hurts Unity a lot

 

I don't think it will hurt Unity, not by a lot anyway. Of course this is exiting for everyone even remotely interested in game development, and I can't wait for the "how do I do this in C++ with the unreal engine" that are likely to arise.

 

The reason why I don't think this will hurt Unity is simply because of the complexity involved in getting something to work in the unreal engine in contrast to Unity, just the fact that the unreal engine lets you use C++ makes the unreal engine "harder to use" as it will involve more to take into consideration. With unity, you can have a working game in just a few lines of code (so to speak).

 

I think this is more likely to cause a shift where the more serious people/studios that want to do some more advanced stuff with their game will end up having a favor towards the unreal engine whereas people/studios with little experience/expertise or just for small games will still benefit (or also prefer) unity. Or at least, I hope people understand how to use the right tools for the right job ;)

 

I'm curious to see where this is headed though! smile.png

 

 

I don't think that is really the case. The c++ source is just an added benefit. You can work with UE4 without touching any c++, as it has a noob friendly visual scripting system. By contrast, Unity requires C# or JavaScript knowledge. Also, Unity Pro costs $1500 or $75/mo (the free version lacks basic features) and with UE4 you get the whole shabang for $19/mo, which makes UE4 the clear winner in my eyes.



#8 phantom   Moderators   -  Reputation: 7395

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Posted 19 March 2014 - 02:51 PM

Also, Unity Pro costs $1500 or $75/mo (the free version lacks basic features) and with UE4 you get the whole shabang for $19/mo, which makes UE4 the clear winner in my eyes.


Also, if you stop paying the Unity license then, as I understand it, you can no longer use the tools - with the UE4 setup however if you stop paying you can keep using what you already have up until that moment and only have to re-sub if you want to get updates.


(A note of transparency : I work for a company who work with Epic however I have no intention of misleading anyone smile.png)

#9 Servant of the Lord   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 20287

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Posted 19 March 2014 - 08:36 PM

Unity Pro costs $1500 or $75/mo (the free version lacks basic features) and with UE4 you get the whole shabang for $19/mo, which makes UE4 the clear winner in my eyes.

Except that UE4 has the 5% royalties thing, and Unity only has that for consoles.

And it's not 5% on profits. Or 5% on revenue, even. It's 5% of sales, before store cuts.

"When releasing a product using UE4, you're signing up to pay Epic 5% of gross product revenue from users, regardless of what company collects the revenue. That means: If your game makes $10 on the App Store, Apple may pay you $7, but you'd pay Epic $0.50 (5% of $10)."

So it's higher than 5% profit or even 5% revenue. It's 5% of the store price before Microsoft, Valve, Apple, Kickstarter, or other publishers (and credit card companies) take their cut. That's 7% of your revenue, or even higher, depending on the store.


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#10 Alundra   Members   -  Reputation: 886

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Posted 19 March 2014 - 09:14 PM

This 5% is nothing against the win of time you have with UE4.



#11 Hodgman   Moderators   -  Reputation: 30958

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Posted 19 March 2014 - 09:56 PM

5% royalties for using a AAA engine is a huge game-changer in the licencing business. If you sell 100k copies at $10 store price, that's $50k royalties to Epic.

In the past, they would've either asked for way more royalties (e.g. 20%) or several hundred thousand dollars up-front.

 

Now, being able to pay $20 up-front per team member, and then pay off a modest licensing cost only when you're making money... is worlds apart. The only time that this is a worse deal is if you're selling millions of copies of a $50 game... In that case, you're probably a big AAA studio, and you can afford to just deal with Epic the traditional way and pay them half a million dollars up-front.

 

CryTek has made a similar move today as well:

http://www.cryengine.com/news/crytek-announces-its-cryengine-as-a-service-program

 

For $10 a month per-person, you get access to CryEngine, including the C++ game code (but no C++ engine code) and no royalties.

 

 

Both Epic and CryTek here are moving over to making PC games extremely cheap to develop, and must be just sticking to their old business model for customers who want to make PS4/Xbone games, or customers who want to pay a huge sum up-front instead of royalties.

 

 

This is going to put pressure on Unity. I'd expect to see a change in their prices quite soon too.

I imagine that yeah, this is going to put an even larger amount of pressure on guys like C4, LeadWerks, Unigine, etc... I'd like to license my own engine product (beyond the one client I have so far), but competing against CryTek and Epic just got a lot harder!


Edited by Hodgman, 19 March 2014 - 10:05 PM.


#12 Migi0027 =A=   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 1939

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Posted 20 March 2014 - 01:16 AM

At first I thought naively that it was freely distributed across the github, until it came right to my face that I've got to pay that small fee. And to be completely honest, I'm almost considering to apply for a month, just to stare at the code behind it.


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#13 Rld_   Members   -  Reputation: 1498

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Posted 20 March 2014 - 01:55 AM


I don't think that is really the case. The c++ source is just an added benefit. You can work with UE4 without touching any c++, as it has a noob friendly visual scripting system. By contrast, Unity requires C# or JavaScript knowledge. Also, Unity Pro costs $1500 or $75/mo (the free version lacks basic features) and with UE4 you get the whole shabang for $19/mo, which makes UE4 the clear winner in my eyes.

 

You do have a point there. I am not experienced with the visual scripting system, but from what I have heard it's not that great to work with in terms of getting something more advanced to work, not in contrast to Unity anyway, but I can only guess on that part.

 

For people/studios with programming experience, UE4 (and now also CryEngine it seems) might be the better option in terms of price and features. I haven't worked with the UE4 like I said, but I can imagine that such a huge and feature rich engine might not be the best option for smaller indie developers where the time to learn the engine, how to use it effectively and perhaps also make proper use of C++ will outweigh it's actual usefulness.

 

I might be completely wrong though, but that's how I see it. Fact remains, Unity will lose a portion of its user base as there are always people who want something else, but it will likely be more spread out when the dust has settled. We can only wait and see! :)

 


with the UE4 setup however if you stop paying you can keep using what you already have up until that moment and only have to re-sub if you want to get updates.

Aren't there strings attached to this? I mean.. In that case I could pay for a month, get the engine, cancel subscription and work with what I have. At the start, updates might be vital for some stuff, but there comes a point where updates aren't of such a big relevance that I must need them in order to make a game.



#14 Krohm   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 3167

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Posted 20 March 2014 - 02:28 AM

I think it's incredible value and smaller engines will have to promptly react to the price changes mostly because they will have to be defended in terms of an economical, non-technical comparison.



#15 Frenetic Pony   Members   -  Reputation: 1348

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Posted 20 March 2014 - 03:07 AM

Love it, gonna download it maybe tomorrow, play around with it. Also maybe see how they got their reflections working, cubemaps with screenspace raytracing? Either way props to them, I love game jams and there's a lot of small, indie type people that go to them. For that crowd this is going to be a huge win, because Blueprint (or whatever they're calling the scripting) looks to do even more than Unity for just getting things done.



#16 Hodgman   Moderators   -  Reputation: 30958

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Posted 20 March 2014 - 03:54 AM


Aren't there strings attached to this? I mean.. In that case I could pay for a month, get the engine, cancel subscription and work with what I have. At the start, updates might be vital for some stuff, but there comes a point where updates aren't of such a big relevance that I must need them in order to make a game.
The strings are that you still have to pay them 5% royalties laugh.png

#17 Rld_   Members   -  Reputation: 1498

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Posted 20 March 2014 - 04:08 AM


The strings are that you still have to pay them 5% royalties 

Haha yeah of course :D, but let's assume it takes you a year to make your game, that would be 228 dollars, which is 209 dollars you would save for your noodles supply!



#18 Amr0   Members   -  Reputation: 1131

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Posted 20 March 2014 - 04:24 AM

I imagine the percentage of people who had downloaded the previous UDK just to play with it without selling anything made with it it is very high! I know I'm guilty of that. I guess it'a a way to make money out of those.



#19 phantom   Moderators   -  Reputation: 7395

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Posted 20 March 2014 - 05:05 AM

Aren't there strings attached to this? I mean.. In that case I could pay for a month, get the engine, cancel subscription and work with what I have. At the start, updates might be vital for some stuff, but there comes a point where updates aren't of such a big relevance that I must need them in order to make a game.


The 5% aside the 'catch' would be that if you come across something which is broken then you are either a) stuck with it, b) fixing it yourself or c) paying another $19 to catch up and merge all that you've missed out on.

You'd also not get new features, fixes, platforms etc as they hit mainline.

From Epics point of view, if you pay once and never release anything they've made $19 they wouldn't have otherwise.
If you pay once and release something then you owe them 5% they wouldn't have had otherwise.
If you keep paying and release something then they have the N*$19 + 5%.

It's a case of what is it worth to YOU and how does it contrast with other engines in the market for your usage.

Personally, I'd pay the $19 once just to get a look at the code and decide from there, it's not a huge amount of cash after all and worst comes to the worst you can learn something to boot.

#20 Krypt0n   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 2600

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Posted 20 March 2014 - 05:21 AM

 


The strings are that you still have to pay them 5% royalties 

Haha yeah of course biggrin.png, but let's assume it takes you a year to make your game, that would be 228 dollars, which is 209 dollars you would save for your noodles supply!

 

you might still want to pay those $19/month to get all the updates (features+fixes), being outdated for a year might make you miss quite some important changes.

 

yet it makes me wonder, if one license per company is enough. if you can legally subscribe for one month and keep the source after that and work with it, you could just as good create a local git repository with it and the company works with it. or do they require that every new hire should subscribe for a month?

bit confusing.






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