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Looping a sound with reverb causes a "pop" at loop


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#1 bladderbloat   Members   -  Reputation: 587

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Posted 29 March 2014 - 09:23 AM

Hey!

 

I was wondering if anyone here knows how to deal with a looping sound, say a harp melody that comes with it's natural reverb, that pops/clicks each time the loop is replayed. I know it has to do that the ending has it's reverb going on and the first note doesn't have that reverb.. If I fade it out, it works, but then the rythm gets balled out of sync and the continuity fails.

 

I hope I explained it well enough! 



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#2 sunandshadow   Moderators   -  Reputation: 4591

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Posted 29 March 2014 - 11:17 AM

This is kind of like making a tileable image.  You want to overlap the two ends and blur them together, somehow.  I don't know exactly how that works in music.  If the first note is inconsistent with the rest, edit it to be consistent?  Maybe record it with an extra note at the beginning, then cut that part off so you are starting with a reverbed note?


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#3 bladderbloat   Members   -  Reputation: 587

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Posted 29 March 2014 - 01:03 PM

That actually might work! :o I'll try that! Steal the reverb from the end! 



#4 sunandshadow   Moderators   -  Reputation: 4591

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Posted 29 March 2014 - 11:08 PM

Hope it works ^_^  If not, tell me what the result was, I'm curious.  (Also I totally just had a dream where I was a music production company manager putting together a new band, probably sparked by this thread, lol.)


Phone game idea available free to someone who will develop it (Alphadoku game - the only existing phone game of this type is both for windows phone only and awful. PM for details.)


I want to help design a "sandpark" MMO. Optional interactive story with quests and deeply characterized NPCs, plus sandbox elements like player-craftable housing and lots of other crafting. If you are starting a design of this type, please PM me. I also love pet-breeding games.


#5 CRFaithMusic   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 1042

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Posted 30 March 2014 - 03:19 PM

You guys are on the right track :) you just split the audio where you want it to end and put it at the start. Therefore it's like the reverb carries on... This is how I do it :)



#6 TheChubu   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 3771

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Posted 30 March 2014 - 03:45 PM

If you have the melody w/o the reverb, make a loop of it 3 times, run it through the reverb, cut the middle one and use that. It will have the end of the reverb of the first melody, which should be enough.

 

Otherwise you can record the sample once with the reverb, cut the tail, mix it in the beginning of the sample.

 

And always check the beginning sound sample and the end sound sample in wave for so you can see if you need fade ins/outs to avoid clicking.


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#7 Kryzon   Prime Members   -  Reputation: 2545

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Posted 30 March 2014 - 06:27 PM

Another way, without having to use an altered sample, is to load the original sample into two different tracks, with each track having its own instance of a sampler instrument but having the same properties (the same gain, panning and effects chain). Then you can play the same note once in one track, once in the other.

This way you can make a note play at the right moment and let it "ring" away its reverb without affecting the following note, which will be in a different track.
The DAW will take care of seamlessly mixing the audio.

#8 LorenzoGatti   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 2552

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 02:25 AM

If you have the melody w/o the reverb, make a loop of it 3 times, run it through the reverb, cut the middle one and use that. It will have the end of the reverb of the first melody, which should be enough.

Even better, play the original clip once before repeating the variant with added reverb: the beginning of the music shouldn't have a reverb tail out of nowhere.

 

Also, verify that reverb tails are shorter than your music clip; you might need more than one repeat to reach a steady state that allows looping.

In the editing technique suggested by TheChubu, the second and third repeat in the output should be identical; alternatively, if you process with reverb one copy of the music followed by silence you can directly measure how long does the reverberated output take to decay to silence.


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#9 nsmadsen   Moderators   -  Reputation: 3647

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 07:48 AM

Another thing to consider are loop editors where you can "tune" the waveform at the looping points. If one point is on the X axis and one is way above or below, you're gonna have a click or pop as well. If the waveform shape is smooth and connected, you'll have less of a chance of pops or clicks. In some DAWs you can set it up to allow you to select only zero crossings to help out with this issue.

 

loop_editor.png


Edited by nsmadsen, 05 April 2014 - 07:49 AM.

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#10 GroovyOne   Members   -  Reputation: 300

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Posted 15 April 2014 - 04:56 PM

The best way to make a seamless music loop that does NOT play the reverb tail of the end of the song at the beginning - :

 

1. Extend your midi past the end of the song by 4 bars.

2. Render all of the song including the extra 4 bars.

3. Select from the 1st or 2nd bar to the 1st or 2nd bars of the extended section and LOOP that.

4. Delete the remainder from the song.

 

You can now either

1. The audio engine (FMOD and WWise) will handle the single file with a loop section in it and only repeat the loop section not the intro.

2: For no support for embedded loop points then make 2 files : INTRO and LOOP and ask the programmer to sequence the music tracks but repeat the loop file.

 

This works with SOUND FORGE - if other wav editors add this meta data in please post below.

 

Looping2ndBarTrick.jpg


Edited by GroovyOne, 15 April 2014 - 04:59 PM.

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#11 grogon   Members   -  Reputation: 185

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Posted 29 May 2014 - 10:59 AM

If bladderbloat really meant click (and not lack of reverb tail, which sometimes is concern and sometimes is not) then there is another way to manipulate sound at the sample level. You can edit particular samples of a sound if you zoom in the waveform view close enough (almost to the max). Then you can drag it and listen if it makes click quieter or not. It is not always possible to achieve waveform continuity but it is worth a try.


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