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how to find specefic platforms sdk like p34 and xone?


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#1 moeen k   Members   -  Reputation: 516

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Posted 16 May 2014 - 01:09 AM

hi. i want to know how can i find new platform like ps4 and xone api,s that i can work with sticks buttons and...... . i heard those are not free in internet and they are just given to known studios but if it is true how indie games will be dveloped for them. these platforms are not in indie version of udk ue4 and unity. so how should i work for these platforms? more questions is aboud directx that now is a part of winsdk. can i find x360 and xone sdk in it or its apart? and what about psgl what is the diffrences between it and opengl and can i find it? is ps sdk in it or not?


Edited by moeen k, 16 May 2014 - 08:52 AM.


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#2 HyperV   Members   -  Reputation: 872

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Posted 16 May 2014 - 01:58 AM

Hi

 

 

These API's are not for the public , you have to apply as a registered developer.

Even Indie developers have to apply for that.

appart of that registered developers can't tell you whats in the SDK because of the NDA (non disclosure agreement).

When you are a registered developer you can get the API's for UE and Unity.

 

HyperV



#3 moeen k   Members   -  Reputation: 516

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Posted 16 May 2014 - 02:17 AM

is it free to register or you have to pay for it? is it impossible to find it from indirect sites? can you give me some links? and i dont know what you mean registered, because there is no option for it in ue4 i think you mean registeredas licensee developer. i think you have to pay 1.5 million dollar for it



#4 HyperV   Members   -  Reputation: 872

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Posted 16 May 2014 - 02:28 AM

it's free to register but you need to register a company and the SDK can cost up to 2000 dollars/euro.

btw i think you also need a financial report of your company to apply for it.

 

HyperV



#5 jbadams   Senior Staff   -  Reputation: 19350

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Posted 16 May 2014 - 05:23 AM

For XBox One you would want the ID@XBox program.  You can read about developing for a couple of other Microsoft platforms (XBox, Windows PC/Tablet, Web and Windows Phone) HERE.

 

You can apply to become a registered Playstation developer HERE.

 

 

Note that these programs have specific requirements, which you can read about on the websites.

 

 

Does that help? smile.png



#6 dilyan_rusev   Members   -  Reputation: 1068

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Posted 16 May 2014 - 05:30 AM

Just to clarify, for some of the consoles, as an indie developer you pay only for the dev kits, not membership. Which makes sense. Also note that some countries are not officially supported. Also, almost everything is covered in NDAs. This is why you can't get more answers, but actually getting an indie account for some of the consoles is easy, it just takes time and persistence.

In case you haven't come across the term yet, 'dev kit' means a console you can develop for.

 

I was going to say more, but @jbadams wrote his post before I got the chance to finish mine :)



#7 Hodgman   Moderators   -  Reputation: 31800

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Posted 16 May 2014 - 06:03 AM

Dev-kits cost thousands of USD, submitting a game (for mandatory QA testing) costs 10's of thousands of USD, printing disks costs 100's of thousands of USD's.

 

To develop for consoles, your company needs to get in contact with Sony/Microsoft and sign a confidentiality agreement.

 

If you're an indie (with not much money), but they really like your game, they might be nice enough to give you free dev-kits and to waive the submission fees.



#8 moeen k   Members   -  Reputation: 516

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Posted 16 May 2014 - 06:35 AM

your answer was cool hodgman. i posted a topic in unrealengine forums and they say that if i get devkits from sony and microsoft and if i start talking to epicgames they will give me the codes for these consoles for free. maybe i built my game on pc and in the end i could convince them to give me devkits and i started porting it on those consoles.



#9 SeanMiddleditch   Members   -  Reputation: 7161

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Posted 16 May 2014 - 12:18 PM

Hodgman's answer is a little out of date.

During the last generation of consoles, what he said was true and indie development was not really feasible. It's much easier, cheaper, and more reasonable to be an indie console dev this generation. Not as easy, cheap, or reasonable as PC, but still quite possible

#10 Shane C   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 1283

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Posted 16 May 2014 - 12:49 PM

Okay so I've heard PS4 dev kits cost around $2500, Wii U dev kits cost around $3000, and the XBox One retail console, which is substantially cheaper, can double as a dev kit.

 

Also, let's just say I know a couple people who are indie, one with a very good game, and they had to still pay for dev kits. It just seems like the big studios are getting them for free, that the console companies want to encourage to make games... not some indie. Could be wrong though.



#11 dilyan_rusev   Members   -  Reputation: 1068

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Posted 16 May 2014 - 01:32 PM

AFAIK Microsoft does *plan* to make retail units as dev kits, but you still need dev kits.

 

We still haven't got through the whole process for Xbox One, but I can confirm that dev kits cost *much* less for indie developers than what Hodgman said. As a start-up, we can definitely afford it without any financial strain. Once you get approved, you will know more about the fees.

 

Just have in mind that the documentation is not what it could be for indie developers, so you have to maintain more active contact with Microsoft in order to know more and have more up-to-date information.

 

Also, we are all playing on the edge as to what we can and cannot say, as almost all that wasn't said the last BUILD is still covered by NDAs.



#12 moeen k   Members   -  Reputation: 516

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Posted 16 May 2014 - 02:00 PM

sorry. what is retail units?



#13 swiftcoder   Senior Moderators   -  Reputation: 10364

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Posted 16 May 2014 - 08:09 PM


retail units

The regular XBox One that you (as a retail customer) can go buy at the store.

 

Traditionally, dev kits are distinct from the retail hardware. The dev kits are made available to key developers before the retail console is released (or even completed), so while they share much of the hardware internals with the retail model, they may have unfinished cases and extra debugging support.


Tristam MacDonald - Software Engineer @Amazon - [swiftcoding]


#14 moeen k   Members   -  Reputation: 516

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Posted 16 May 2014 - 11:20 PM

i think there are diffrent levels of indie developers. some indie developers are like that game company that made flower or journey. they are some experienced team that team is just more little than AAA developer teams. but as other people i think if there is an idea easiest platform to make is pc because you run the game on same platform you make with same features. for other platforms like ps and xbox there should be more experienced team and better budget to make even as indie developer. maybe pc is not the most attendant market but still markets like steam are good for it.



#15 dilyan_rusev   Members   -  Reputation: 1068

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Posted 18 May 2014 - 07:10 AM

This is a completely different topic. In my opinion, it is much easier to program for a console (except for the publishing part). You write it on your console and then it runs the same on all other consoles, for all your customers. So long as you don't depend on the Internet connection speed, of course. And with libraries like the DirectX Toolkit (https://directxtk.codeplex.com/), you can write almost as if you were using XNA.

 

With PCs, it is HELL on Earth. DirectX, OpengGL, different operating systems, different drivers, different installed programs, different versions of .NET and the C++ runtime... You can't even depend on good old Internet Explorer and Windows Media Player being installed anymore for EU PCs. And you have to test it like crazy, and then you *know* it's going to crash and be totally unplayable for some users because of some stupid combo you didn't think possible. And don't get me started on pirated Windows XPs that never got updated.

 

In this sense, I like what Steam are doing with SteamOS and their bare-bones Linux libraries & compiler.



#16 Hodgman   Moderators   -  Reputation: 31800

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Posted 19 May 2014 - 11:29 PM

 

Dev-kits cost thousands of USD, submitting a game (for mandatory QA testing) costs 10's of thousands of USD, printing disks costs 100's of thousands of USD's.
 
To develop for consoles, your company needs to get in contact with Sony/Microsoft and sign a confidentiality agreement.
 
If you're an indie (with not much money), but they really like your game, they might be nice enough to give you free dev-kits and to waive the submission fees.

Hodgman's answer is a little out of date.

During the last generation of consoles, what he said was true and indie development was not really feasible. It's much easier, cheaper, and more reasonable to be an indie console dev this generation. Not as easy, cheap, or reasonable as PC, but still quite possible

 

If you're not indie, or they don't like your game enough to get onto the "have some free stuff" train, then the prices above are in the ball-park -- you'll want several 10's of thousands of dollars alone just to pay for kits and submissions (and that's for a digital game - physical is a whole different league).
If you're an attractive indie, then yeah, you might be able to score a couple of free kits and submissions (as mentioned), but it's not exactly easy to do so. If you want more than a couple, you might still be asked for $10k a pop...
In either case, you do need an agreement between your company and Sony/MS/etc.

Last generation, doing an digitally-distributed indie game on 360 was near impossible (you'd need a publisher's blessing / fiefdom). Doing self-published digital games on PS3 was possible, but still expensive.
This generation, the publishing barriers have been lifted, but things are still as expensive as ever, except that there's currently these official programs to give freebies to some indies happy.png
 
If you're a hobbyist, then last generation's Xbox Live Indie Games (AKA XNA) was an amazing opportunity to do (restricted) console development practically for free (tiny fees, no company licensing, no ridiculously strict compliance tests, no need to have a publisher...). We're yet to see another program like that for Xbone/PS4 unsure.png
 

these platforms are not in indie version of udk ue4 and unity. so how should i work for these platforms?

Once you've been approved by Sony and/or Microsoft, you can ask your Sony/MS account manager to send an email to Epic saying that you are licensed, and Epic will then give you access to the PS4/XB1 versions of UE4.
 

i think there are diffrent levels of indie developers. some indie developers are like that game company that made flower or journey. they are some experienced team that team is just more little than AAA developer teams.

TGC was a 2nd party developer when they made flower/journey - they were funded, housed within and published by Sony.

 

1st party devs are owned by a platform-holder (Sony/MS/Nintendo/etc).
2nd party devs do work-for-hire, directly for a platform-holder.
3rd party devs do work-for-hire, directly for publishers, OR, they're outright owned by a publisher.
Independent devs do not work for a publisher or a platform-holder -- they work for themselves and either self-publish, or use a publisher's services but aren't funded up-front by the publisher (unlike 3rd party developers, who are funded by publishers).

 

You can then split Independent devs into those who have previous experience at these large companies vs those who don't, and can split them by those that have a lot of funding (e.g. investment by venture capitalists) vs those who are working out of their family basement laugh.png

 

So TGC started off as basically a part of Sony, and now that their contract with Sony is completed they're independent again. However, they're now funding their company by accepting investment by venture capitalists, which means that they don't actually own their company (the investors own it), so I wouldn't call them "an indie company".


Edited by Hodgman, 19 May 2014 - 11:46 PM.


#17 moeen k   Members   -  Reputation: 516

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Posted 20 May 2014 - 01:54 AM

maybe you are right hodgman. your inforamtion is much more than me. i said they are indie because i remember they won indie game award of the year in vga awards.



#18 moeen k   Members   -  Reputation: 516

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Posted 23 May 2014 - 06:09 AM

why those sdks are that expensice and they have nda for it? they dont want more games on their platform? i think it makes their platform more popular. maybe they think it is an standard for them and it makes only high quality will be made for their consoles? and why people shouldn know about those sdk pltaforms? everyone can work with win sdk and direct x but not xbox sdk? why ?



#19 TheChubu   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 4756

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Posted 23 May 2014 - 07:47 AM

Playstation 34 SDK will be a though one to find. Thats for sure.


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#20 3Ddreamer   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 3165

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Posted 29 May 2014 - 03:25 AM

If you're an indie (with not much money), but they really like your game, they might be nice enough to give you free dev-kits and to waive the submission fees.

 

 

Contest winners get privy, but they are slowly adding the stipulations such as proof of concept, registered development company, and the contracts are getting more binding on future completed projects.   "Free" stuff comes with added out of pocket costs and relinguishing true Indy status, it would seem to me, but what do I know. unsure.png


Personal life and your private thoughts always effect your career. Research is the intellectual backbone of game development and the first order. Version Control is crucial for full management of applications and software.  The better the workflow pipeline, then the greater the potential output for a quality game.  Completing projects is the last but finest order.

 

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