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Turn Based 1on1 Fighter


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#1 Kinitex   Members   -  Reputation: 139

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Posted 05 June 2014 - 02:00 AM

I'm half way through developing a turn based 1on1 fighting game, and would like to get some feedback.

 

1. What features of other turn based fighters did you really like?

2. What features did you hate?

3. If there was one feature you would like to see in a turn based fighter what would it be?



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#2 Orymus3   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 10546

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Posted 05 June 2014 - 06:18 AM

I think fighters are really down to execution.

If you look at the last Mortal Kombat reboot, they did not add a whole lot of new stuff (save the X-ray mechanic, which I'll discuss shortly). 

The game was all about interesting key combinations that really felt organic with the outcome (combat move) and sufficient feedback and a overall sense of fairness (balance).

 

1. Just it being done right, playtested and re-balanced (probably a bunch of iterations) and have a lot of feedback so I'm not left wandering if my move hit or miss.

2. X-ray. It's not that I hate it, mind you. I understand the idea of capitalizing on an opponent's vulnerability by using a "risky move" that depletes some form of limited resource, but I believe the implementation was sluggish and more about wow-factor. I would've preferred either having a standard move that leaves me vulnerable if I miss or hit a block I'm guessing.

3. RPG elements? Not sure how that could work. I know an earlier Mortal Kombat tried that and failed miserably. I'd like to level up my fighters to unlock all of their special abilities. I also like the idea of weapons, and very few fighters actually use them (though the new Mortal Kombat will!)



#3 arka80   Members   -  Reputation: 1055

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Posted 05 June 2014 - 07:09 AM

by turn based you mean something like a roguelike? I think MK example of Orymus does not fit well, since MK is a classic real time fighting game.

 

In a turn based you lose the action part of the game, so I think you have to gain the strategic part: lots of special abilities to use, energy management (all type of energy you can think of) and maybe mandatory movements required for some kind of attack



#4 Orymus3   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 10546

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Posted 05 June 2014 - 08:30 AM

Wow totally missed the turn-based part. Apologies!



#5 powerneg   Members   -  Reputation: 1463

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Posted 05 June 2014 - 09:07 AM

I 'm riddled by what a turn based fighter would be, and i 'm sure most others are as well, since fighter-games are usually about reflexes,

and adding reflexes to a turn-based game, well, let's just say it would get messy.

 

What might come close is magic:the gathering, it's turn-based, it has hitpoints,

and it has "instants" which take effect *before* the last played effect, thus giving the best approximation of reflexes in a TB game without making it non-TB



#6 Kinitex   Members   -  Reputation: 139

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Posted 05 June 2014 - 11:46 AM

Ya I guess the closest games I can find to describe it are Magic The Gathering and Hearthstone in terms of the fighting mechanics. So picture these two, but instead you have a character with ability animations and they actually move across the screen to perform most attacks.



#7 Orymus3   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 10546

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Posted 05 June 2014 - 12:24 PM

Similar to a CCG / tbs tactical game?

 

I believe there was a board game game called gladiator that did just that (1on1 turn-based tactical with fighting moves).

It lacked a bit of depth, but otherwise managed to make things interesting.

I'll edit if I find the boardgamegeeks link.



#8 facehead1992   Members   -  Reputation: 489

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Posted 05 June 2014 - 01:13 PM

Ya I guess the closest games I can find to describe it are Magic The Gathering and Hearthstone in terms of the fighting mechanics. So picture these two, but instead you have a character with ability animations and they actually move across the screen to perform most attacks.

I wouldn't really say it's anything like Hearthstone (at least, the few days' worth of gameplay I did). The only thing you can do to cause an effect during the opponent's turn is play cards that trigger automatically when the opponent does something specific. In comparison, Magic does have some sense of "reflexes" with "activated abilities" and "instants" that can be used at anytime, so long as the costs can be paid.



#9 Kinitex   Members   -  Reputation: 139

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Posted 05 June 2014 - 03:08 PM


3. RPG elements? Not sure how that could work. I know an earlier Mortal Kombat tried that and failed miserably. I'd like to level up my fighters to unlock all of their special abilities. I also like the idea of weapons, and very few fighters actually use them (though the new Mortal Kombat will!)

 

This is already incorporated. You will have stat lines like STR, INT, Defense, Health, Greed, Luck that you can put points into each level up. Then you can select up to 5 abilities and upgrade each ability up to level 4. So in then end you have 5x4 abilities to use during a fight as each level of an ability has a unique added effect to the previous.

 

It will cost more stamina to use higher level versions of an ability so you must chose wisely.



#10 powerneg   Members   -  Reputation: 1463

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Posted 06 June 2014 - 09:33 AM


What might come close is magic:the gathering, it's turn-based, it has hitpoints,

and it has "instants" which take effect *before* the last played effect, thus giving the best approximation of reflexes in a TB game without making it non-TB

 

As this was mentioned by others, let me add that this works optimal in the physical card game that is M:TG, but less then optimal in the online version;

you see, "instants" are still reactions, in real life you just utter a "i want to to react to this," or "during your upkeep"(sometimes you just want to do something in a certain part of the opponent's turn whether he/she did something or not) or even a "wait a second" if they just need some time to thing.

(they speak and the game freezes/changes, they actually utter spells it seems :P )

Having to wait for your opponent to (not )react for every creature you tap can be quite the nuisance.

 

@Kinitex; maybe you should just write a description of your game instead of revealing parts of it over time in response to posters ?



#11 Murazrai   Members   -  Reputation: 102

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Posted 07 June 2014 - 06:12 AM

The only 1vs1 turn based fighting game that I know is The King of Fighters: Kyo. You might want to refer to that game for some design inspiration.

 

For your questions, I can't answer questions 1 and 2 because I never played them. However, for question 3, I would say simultaneous turn resolution where both players select one move at one time and execute them simultaneously.



#12 GameChanger   Members   -  Reputation: 140

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Posted 08 June 2014 - 09:45 AM

Check out toribash! Insane game when the moves are pulled off correctly.

 

As for a turn based 1 on 1 fighting game I think a good system would be similar to a combat card game, mixed with badminton scoring rules.

 

For example, you cannot score in badminton unless you are serving. If this was used in a fighting game you'd get the first turn (serve) to perform you action, however if the player counters it on their turn they are now "serving" and can deal damage. 

 

For cards, players get 20 hit points and 10 stamina points each, they also get a deck of cards based on their characters move list. Players draw 5 cards on each turn (can have no more than 8 at any time), and continue to cycle until one players runs out of hit points.

 

Example of cards would be:

 

Card 1 = Counter Left Punch / Gain an additional action on turn / Cost 3 Stamina

Card 2 = Right Hook / Damage opponent 3HP / Cost 1 Stamina

Card 3 = Hadouken / Damage opponent 5HP / Cost 5 Stamina

Card 4 = Psych Up / Increase damage on next 5 attacks by 1HP / Cost 1 Stamina

 

The goal would be to create a satisfying system where players feel they are rewarded for clever use of combat cards on their turn.



#13 Osidlus   Members   -  Reputation: 750

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 01:00 PM

rolleyes.gif


Edited by Osidlus, 09 June 2014 - 03:05 PM.


#14 Kinitex   Members   -  Reputation: 139

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 01:07 PM

Thanks for all the input guys, it's certainly helping to hear different feedback. I'm gonna try to get a web based version of the battle mechanic (both real time and turn based versions) for you guys to try for those interested.



#15 Kinitex   Members   -  Reputation: 139

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Posted 27 July 2014 - 05:45 PM

I probably should of mentioned what we're fighting with, as it's not human fist fighting, but 2 fish fighting in a tank. So think Angry Birds Epic turn based fighting, but 1on1 with 20 abilities instead of 5.

 

Aside from the 4 mechanics listed below, there isn't much else to the fighting which is why I originally started this thread. I just feel the fighting is lacking 1 or 2 key mechanics and some better ability balance to round it out. Like if I went Angry Birds Epic style and had 3on3 fish fights that could make things a lot more interesting like which fish should you go for first etc. but trouble is im building for mobile so quite limited to what I can have going on in these fights.

 

4 major mechanics to the fighting:

 

  1. Right now each player(fish) can have up to 5 abilities, each being upgradable to level 4, and each level offering a unique variation of the original level 1 ability. So in total you would have 20 abilities at your disposal in high level fights. There is a variety of abilities from bites, fin slaps, bleeds, blinds, poison, stat buffs, heals etc...
  2. Each turn you gain 1 star that you can spend on a level 2 ability, or you can save your stars by using level 1 abilities which cost no stars to use, and then use all your saved stars on a powerful level 4 ability using 3 stars.
  3. When you use the bite ability for example, your fish will swim over to the other side and perform a bite animation on the other fish and swim back to his side.
  4. You have 3 different stances Top -> Offense (+STR -Defense), Middle -> Neutral (No bonuses), Bottom -> Defense (+Defense - STR) which you can swipe your fish up or down into when its your turn.

Edited by Kinitex, 27 July 2014 - 05:48 PM.


#16 Thaumaturge   Members   -  Reputation: 1544

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 07:55 AM

I don't really play fighting games, and don't think that I've played a turn-based one, but I'd like to suggest Card Hunter as a game that might be worth looking at for inspiration.

 

It's not a one-on-one fighting game, but it does feature combat that is both turn-based and card-based, if I'm not much mistaken: each character has a collection of ability cards, and during each turn of play gets a random selection from those cards as their available abilities for that turn. The cards available to each character are provided by the character's class, race (in the fantasy sense: dwarf, elf, etc.) and equipment: to make up two examples, a club might provide three "simple bash" cards and two "heavy bash" cards while a sword might provide four "single strike" cards and one "parry" card.


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#17 GoCatGo   GDNet+   -  Reputation: 1637

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 08:55 AM


3. If there was one feature you would like to see in a turn based fighter what would it be?

 

Real-time fighting.

 

Hey, you asked.

 

Look, I'm a huge fan of turn-based games.  They are great ways to simulate squad-based tactical combat situations where you control multiple units.  Turn-based is also great for dozens of other types of games.

 

But a one-on-one fighter?  I've probably never seen or played one for a reason.

 

Edited to Add:  Missed some stuff above.  I get the MtG reference, but you lost me at Angry Birds with tanks. 


Edited by GoCatGo, 28 July 2014 - 08:57 AM.

Indie games are what indie movies were in the early 90s -- half-baked, poorly executed wastes of time that will quickly fall out of fashion.  Now go make Minecraft with wizards and watch the dozen or so remakes of Reservior Dogs.


#18 Doboss   Members   -  Reputation: 181

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 09:43 AM

Iam not a huge fan of turn based games, but I found combat in South Park stick of truth really interesting. They brought that reactive system just by the fact that you can reactivly block enemy attack during certain period of time of their attack animation/process which lowers the damage. So in the end despite the fact that its turn based you are forced to reactively block incoming attacks making it more engaging in my opinion.

 

I think something like that would really help make it more fun.


Edited by Doboss, 28 July 2014 - 09:49 AM.


#19 Kinitex   Members   -  Reputation: 139

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 09:49 PM

Iam not a huge fan of turn based games, but I found combat in South Park stick of truth really interesting. They brought that reactive system just by the fact that you can reactivly block enemy attack during certain period of time of their attack animation/process which lowers the damage. So in the end despite the fact that its turn based you are forced to reactively block incoming attacks making it more engaging in my opinion.

 

I think something like that would really help make it more fun.

 

I haven't played SP SoT but just watched some videos on it. The block feature could work. The fight animations are just starting to be introduced into the development so I will have a better idea of how I could implement something like this. Thanks!

 

 

Edited to Add:  Missed some stuff above.  I get the MtG reference, but you lost me at Angry Birds with tanks. 

 

Angry Birds Epic (the new turn based rpg game), but think fish instead of birds fighting in a fish tank.

 

I don't really play fighting games, and don't think that I've played a turn-based one, but I'd like to suggest Card Hunter as a game that might be worth looking at for inspiration.

 

It's not a one-on-one fighting game, but it does feature combat that is both turn-based and card-based, if I'm not much mistaken: each character has a collection of ability cards, and during each turn of play gets a random selection from those cards as their available abilities for that turn. The cards available to each character are provided by the character's class, race (in the fantasy sense: dwarf, elf, etc.) and equipment: to make up two examples, a club might provide three "simple bash" cards and two "heavy bash" cards while a sword might provide four "single strike" cards and one "parry" card.

 

This could work! While it wouldn't make much sense to use cards with fish in a tank, it may still work with offering different types of foods that you could feed your fish during the fight which may make your fish perform a certain special ability, or stat boost etc...



#20 GoCatGo   GDNet+   -  Reputation: 1637

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 06:10 AM

I play a boardgame called Memoir '44.  On your turn you get to choose a card from your hand and play it.  The card often specifies in which section of the battlefield you are permitted to move your various combat units and how many of those units you can move.

 

Now that I understand what you are suggesting, the thought hit me that, like the sections of the battlefield, your cards could have some correspondence to either parts of the character's body or parts of the opposition's body.  For instance:

 

"Devastating Kick:  IF your character has a functioning RIGHT LEG, your character KICKS opponent with crushing damage to the TORSO."

 

Then you discard that "move" or "card" or "ability" (whatever you'd call it) and switch turns.

 

This is the best I can come up with at 5:08am.  I'm just trying to make up for my uninformed "make it real-time" comment. smile.png


Indie games are what indie movies were in the early 90s -- half-baked, poorly executed wastes of time that will quickly fall out of fashion.  Now go make Minecraft with wizards and watch the dozen or so remakes of Reservior Dogs.





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