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Single Combat with the Sword: A Prototype (feedback requested)

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#21 powerneg   Members   -  Reputation: 1463

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Posted 07 August 2014 - 08:31 AM

I noticed if you sidestep several steps, then attack, the charactar side-steps back first to face his opponent.

I suppose it was intentional, but to me(as a competitive player) it doesn't seem like i cannot get the "maximum" out of this feature.

(i havent played the updated version btw, but i didn't see this in the list of improvements so)



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#22 Thaumaturge   Members   -  Reputation: 1563

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Posted 07 August 2014 - 10:28 AM

 

Also i think that when a battle with an enemy starts it should go to a separate battle arena and after the battle ends it could go back to the exploration so that the meaty core of the game isn't changed due to the combat.

In fact, that is exactly what I am doing! ^_^

 

To elaborate, in general (I have a few exceptions in mind), enemies stand still; when the player approaches within a certain distance of an enemy (I intend that this radius be visible to the player), combat is initiated and the game switches to combat gameplay, with the exploration level no longer visible. At the end of battle, the player is returned to the level. I also intend to be somewhat lenient with regards to death: at the moment it simply places the player outside of the enemy's activation radius, still facing the enemy; the player then has the option to try again, or look for something else to do (or reload a save, once that feature is in).

 

 

Oh and i think i may know how to fix the parry mechanic, wouldn't it be a better idea to have button that puts you in a block stance, but still makes you vulnerable  and to parry an attack you have to be in the block stance and swipe the mouse forward while the enemy attacks?

Hmm... That does rather change how the player controls the mechanic--what would be the advantage over the current approach? I'm honestly not sure of what problem this is intended to solve. ^^; If it's for the "universal parry" issue, then I still hope that fixing that should only call for adjustments to the AI (there are a couple of variables that I can play around with).

 

 

I noticed if you sidestep several steps, then attack, the charactar side-steps back first to face his opponent.

I'm not entirely sure that I'm reading you correctly: do you mean that you side-step a few times, then attack, but find that your attack is made in the direction that the character is facing as you start the attack, rather than towards the enemy, potentially leaving you exposed to the enemy? Or do you mean that the character's orientation while side-stepping (but after an attack has finished) is incorrect?

 

If the former, then that is indeed intentional: I originally allowed the character to continue to rotate towards the enemy while attacking, allowing the player to side-step, and then, while still not facing the enemy, attack, allowing the attack to rotate into the enemy. However, I found this to be rather overpowered, and also feel that it makes little sense: turning while lunging would be very awkward indeed, I believe.

 

If I'm mistaking you, could you please elaborate? (I am a bit tired, so I may well be misreading you. ^^; )


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#23 powerneg   Members   -  Reputation: 1463

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Posted 07 August 2014 - 06:58 PM

Disregard my last post, it seems i just wasn't swinging my mouse correct/enough.



#24 Thaumaturge   Members   -  Reputation: 1563

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Posted 08 August 2014 - 08:18 AM

Aah, fair enough.

 

Out of curiosity--and because it may help me to better convey the mechanics to new players--what were you doing? Guessing from your wording, were you treating the mouse motion as a gesture--that is, expecting to simply specify a direction/offset, and then have the attack play out automatically?


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#25 Thaumaturge   Members   -  Reputation: 1563

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Posted 15 August 2014 - 05:50 PM

New version!

Changes:

  • Two new weapons (for the enemies only, I'm afraid): an axe and a mace.
    • The axe deals more damage than the sword, especially to the arm.
    • The mace deals more damage still, albeit in much the same balance as the sword. However, it also stuns the victim briefly.
  • The game is now restarted using the number keys; if I recall correctly:
    • 1 restarts against a sword-wielder.
    • 2 restarts against an axe-wielder.
    • 3 restarts against a mace-wielder.
    • 4 restarts against a randomised enemy. Specifically, this not only randomly selects a weapon, but randomises as set of variables within the AI, potentially altering its behaviour.
  • Various tweaks and alterations to the AI; it should hopefully be improved now.
    • For one, the "universal parry" has once again been undone--please let me know if it manifests any new incarnations!
  • Player input has been tweaked.
    • This includes a change that prevents the player from leading with the back of their sword (as was previously possible).
  • Miscellaneous changes.

Known issues:

  • There is still at least one exploit that I've found; at the moment the only noteworthy idea that I have for countering it is detecting patterns in the player's attacks: doing this once or twice, or at various intervals, should work (it's a valid move, I feel), but exploiting it shouldn't (the AI should see it coming if the player keeps doing it). I hesitate simply because that sort of AI pattern recognition isn't yet one of the arts with which I am familiar.
  • Some physics issues remain. :/

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#26 Zero_Breaker   Members   -  Reputation: 367

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Posted 16 August 2014 - 05:16 PM

Great! I will test this out fully biggrin.png.


Edited by Zero_Breaker, 16 August 2014 - 05:17 PM.


#27 Zero_Breaker   Members   -  Reputation: 367

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Posted 16 August 2014 - 05:33 PM

Feed Back:

 

Overall this version is very well made and a lot of key issues have been fixed however there are still some problems:

 

- When you attack with your sword vertically, sometimes you parry instead of hitting the A.I and sometimes even though the A.I blocked your move you can still do damage to it if you slash vertically even if the A.I blocked it. However, this doesn't happen very often, it probably happens 20% of the time.

 

- The sword swinging feels a lot more slower and sluggish compared to previous versions which felt very crisp and responsive.

 

What I liked:

 

- Fairly challenging A.I.

 

- No Universal Parry.

 

- Different Enemies with different weapons.

 

- Punishment if the player tries to spam too much.

 

- Parrying is a lot more better and requires good accuracy to prevent being hit.

 

What I Think needs to be improved:

 

- Attacking should be more crisp and responsive.

 

- Vertical Slash needs a little work.

 

Overall:

Its certainly a big improvement and works very well. I think after you fix some issues you should polish the animations a little bit. And maybe add some models :D. Just kidding about the models its way too early at this stage. But yes its coming along very well.



#28 Thaumaturge   Members   -  Reputation: 1563

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Posted 17 August 2014 - 09:26 AM

Thank you very much! happy.png

 

 

When you attack with your sword vertically, sometimes you parry instead of hitting the A.I and sometimes even though the A.I blocked your move you can still do damage to it if you slash vertically even if the A.I blocked it. However, this doesn't happen very often, it probably happens 20% of the time.

Hmm... I hadn't spotted these issues; they're now noted for investigation!

 

 

- The sword swinging feels a lot more slower and sluggish compared to previous versions which felt very crisp and responsive.

That's odd--I wouldn't have thought that any of the changes implemented should have caused such a change. Did you try increasing the mouse sensitivity? Has the frame-rate dropped significantly? (I'm especially concerned about the latter, as the mechanism by which I interpolate the bone-rotations of the models is affected by the frame-rate, I believe; however, at high frame-rates the difference should, I think, not be too noticeable...)

 

 

I think after you fix some issues you should polish the animations a little bit.

Quite frankly, the models and animations alike are none of them intended to be final at this stage--there's a decent chance of their being redone entirely before a (hoped-for) full release!


Edited by Thaumaturge, 17 August 2014 - 09:28 AM.

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#29 Zero_Breaker   Members   -  Reputation: 367

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Posted 17 August 2014 - 12:59 PM

Glad to know its going well :D!  Oh and i did increase the mouse sensitivity but when i attack and swipe the mouse the sword takes a bit more longer for the sword to move than the previous version. I will play any updated version of your game so expect more updates from me when you release a new version wink.png .



#30 Thaumaturge   Members   -  Reputation: 1563

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Posted 18 August 2014 - 09:46 AM

Ah, I think that I may have found the cause of the control-response issue: in short, I had changed the range of the "virtual mouse cursor" that's used for input; since the input is later normalised before being interpreted for control of the arm, points outside of the normalised circle may map to the same normalised point, incurring a short delay before the mouse re-enters that circle. I've reverted back to a normalised range for the "virtual mouse cursor", and it does seem better. (There are one or two other changes that may also have been involved, and that have also now been changed.)

 

In the meanwhile, I discovered (and have hopefully fixed!) another issue that caused the player-character's arm to suddenly point straight up into the air if the player moved the mouse in particular way.

 

 

I will play any updated version of your game so expect more updates from me when you release a new version

Thank you very much--your feedback is much appreciated. ^_^


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#31 Thaumaturge   Members   -  Reputation: 1563

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Posted 04 September 2014 - 09:39 AM

New version!

Changes:

  • Difficulty levels!
    • Open the options menu and select the "Combat" tab; the difficulty settings should now be available there.
    • These settings are still somewhat nascent, and so may be somewhat unbalanced.
  • Further tweaking of the player-input mechanism.
  • Back-stepping has been added; press 's' (as with normal WASD controls) to retreat.
  • Further alterations to the AI.
  • The floor now works properly.
    • This is a feature that I believe that I failed to mention in the post for the previous version: the player should no longer leave the "circle of light" as a result of manoeuvring. It was also broken in that version, but should now be working properly.
  • It seems that the previous version included an oversight that allowed one to do damage with parts of a weapon that should have been harmless; this should now be fixed.
  • Miscellaneous changes.

Known issues:

  • As a result of changes to the internal handling of the options menu, that menu's "done" button no longer works in this prototype (although it does, I believe, work in the main game). Pressing "o" to dismiss the menu should, however, still work.
  • Physics issues still remain.

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#32 Thaumaturge   Members   -  Reputation: 1563

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Posted 18 December 2014 - 10:58 AM

I've had a few pieces of feedback that seem to indicate that the loss of control when an attack either lands or is blocked is unintuitive. As a result, I'm trying a slightly different control mechanism, and I'd appreciate feedback on it.

 

Download link (Win32 installer)

 

The controls are outlined in the game, as before, but the major change is in how one attacks: instead of direct control, the player now presses the left mouse button to initiate an attack, and swipes the mouse to indicate the line that the attack should follow.

 

This version additionally features slightly better models, additional animations, and music, I believe.

 

Otherwise, I've started work on a potential replacement mechanic; I may end up starting a thread for that sometime soon.


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