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I'm Getting Sick of The Same Posts Over and Over


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#1 superman3275   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 2061

Posted 27 July 2014 - 07:21 AM

I left this forum for a few months recently. Here's why:

  • People listing their idea and then asking a couple (shoehorned in) vague questions like "What programming language should I use?"
  • People trying to "recruit" team members. "I'll pay you once it's done. It's totally going to be a hit."

This has got to be at least half of the posts in the For Beginners section (the most commonly trafficked part of this forum). I'm in this cycle of leaving this forum for a few months, coming back (because of the great long-term community), and then leaving again because this seems to be all I can really find. Just listing ideas and asking something like "What programming language should I use?" should be banned. It's been asked many times before, the forum isn't for simply listing ideas (there's a whole other forum for that), and there's been many, many posts written (which all come to the same conclusions) answering the Programming Language question. It's a waste of people's time which could be used, you know, answering real questions.

 

The whole recruiting team members, stealing game ideas, blah blah blah questions should be banned. If people can't use the search function, we shouldn't all have to deal with their question.

 

The main problem is these people listing ideas, and then saying "Yeah, I can't program at all. How do I make this?" It's just so annoying to see this post over, and over, and over, and over again.

 

EDIT:

 

For clarification, I don't want to ban the users who ask these. I want to ban the posts. I think the moderators should delete posts like these and direct them to the FAQ or some of the other times their exact question has been asked.


Edited by superman3275, 27 July 2014 - 11:53 AM.

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#2 Code Fox   Members   -  Reputation: 1808

Posted 27 July 2014 - 07:34 AM

You'd ban a lot of folks who are asking honest questions.

 If you searched this forum for "programming language", you'd get recommendations ranging from C to Ruby .

 

Edit: the official "FAQ" is too narrow.

(

seriously, there are more than 2 game engines in existence for new folks -

Only listing Python and C# for new folks ?

Not giving reference links for new folks to follow ?

Listing XNA as a viable game library - when support was cut ?! List Mono instead !

)


Edited by Shippou, 27 July 2014 - 07:58 AM.

Does Anyone Actually Read This ?
 


#3 SymLinked   Members   -  Reputation: 887

Posted 27 July 2014 - 07:56 AM

If you're getting so sick of reading posts in those particular subforums, why are you frequenting them? There are other areas of the forums with much less noise.



#4 BHXSpecter   Members   -  Reputation: 1675

Posted 27 July 2014 - 08:08 AM

I left this forum for a few months recently. Here's why:

  • People listing their idea and then asking a couple (shoehorned in) vague questions like "What programming language should I use?"
  • People trying to "recruit" team members. "I'll pay you once it's done. It's totally going to be a hit."

This has got to be at least half of the posts in the For Beginners section (the most commonly trafficked part of this forum). I'm in this cycle of leaving this forum for a few months, coming back (because of the great long-term community), and then leaving again because this seems to be all I can really find. Just listing ideas and asking something like "What programming language should I use?" should be banned. It's been asked many times before, the forum isn't for simply listing ideas (there's a whole other forum for that), and there's been many, many posts written (which all come to the same conclusions) answering the Programming Language question. It's a waste of people's time which could be used, you know, answering real questions.

 

The whole recruiting team members, stealing game ideas, blah blah blah questions should be banned. If people can't use the search function, we shouldn't all have to deal with them.

 

The main problem is these people listing ideas, and then saying "Yeah, I can't program at all. How do I make this?" It's just so annoying to see this post over, and over, and over, and over again.

Those who post thread rants about who "should be banned" should be banned. See what I did there? You start banning for weak reasons like those and it opens banning users on a whim just because you didn't like them. Banning should be reserved for users who break rules and constantly continue to break them after repeated warnings. I have to agree with SymLinked though, if you are sick of those kind of threads then simply don't bother reading them.


"Through vengence I was born.Through war I was trained.Through love I was found. Through death I was released. Through release I was given a purpose."


#5 cozzie   Members   -  Reputation: 1770

Posted 27 July 2014 - 08:13 AM

If you turn it around, what's your proposal to fix it? (and still give the yougsters room)
Maybe another grouping of forums?

#6 swiftcoder   Senior Moderators   -  Reputation: 10399

Posted 27 July 2014 - 08:32 AM


The main problem is these people listing ideas, and then saying "Yeah, I can't program at all. How do I make this?"

That's the entire purpose of the For Beginners forum: to help people who have no idea what they are doing get a leg up.

 

If you don't want to see that sort of thing, move on over to the technical forums - you are well past the point of 'beginner' in my mind.

 

 

 


People trying to "recruit" team members. "I'll pay you once it's done. It's totally going to be a hit."

If you see those threads, hit that handy-dandy report button.

 

We created the classified system in order to relocate that sort of thing outside of the main forums, and we tend to be pretty aggressive about closing recruiting posts these days.


Edited by swiftcoder, 27 July 2014 - 08:32 AM.

Tristam MacDonald - Software Engineer @Amazon - [swiftcoding]


#7 Tutorial Doctor   Members   -  Reputation: 1692

Posted 27 July 2014 - 08:32 AM

Hehe, someone just made a post about posts like these.

I am guessing the main thing you are getting at is that if a person wanted to come here as a beginner, it would be hard to find useful information in the "for beginners" due to the fact just about all of the topics there are the same "MMORPG with no programming skill" posts. As well as the "what is the best language" topics.

My answer to the "which language is best is that it depends on what you are doing.

"Just as you don't write essays with Excel, you don't write websites with Python. And some languages are more efficient at some things. It depends."

Now I can save that answer to my notepad, and copy and paste. Hehe. But, I don't really respond to those types of questions much anymore. It has been answered enough here.

All of the good "for beginners" posts are indeed buried underneath repetitive posts.

They call me the Tutorial Doctor.


#8 SeraphLance   Members   -  Reputation: 1457

Posted 27 July 2014 - 09:57 AM

There's always been a mass of this sort of thing, in every gamedev community in existence.  It's been that way since I joined GDNet like 8 years ago.

 

The best response to it is to redirect it to the proper place.  People should only be banned if they do things like advertise for a team repeatedly in the wrong place.


Edited by SeraphLance, 27 July 2014 - 09:58 AM.


#9 Waterlimon   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 2643

Posted 27 July 2014 - 10:42 AM

My interpretation of the OP's intentions was that he didnt want to ban the users but rather the topics mentioned, so that those threads could lets say be locked after a mod pastes in some generic "use the search bar, here you go a link to the FAQ" response.


o3o


#10 BHXSpecter   Members   -  Reputation: 1675

Posted 27 July 2014 - 11:26 AM

My interpretation of the OP's intentions was that he didnt want to ban the users but rather the topics mentioned, so that those threads could lets say be locked after a mod pastes in some generic "use the search bar, here you go a link to the FAQ" response.

I thought that too, until he said this:


The whole recruiting team members, stealing game ideas, blah blah blah questions should be banned. If people can't use the search function, we shouldn't all have to deal with them.

To me that changes the context from the threads to the users.


"Through vengence I was born.Through war I was trained.Through love I was found. Through death I was released. Through release I was given a purpose."


#11 rip-off   Moderators   -  Reputation: 8762

Posted 27 July 2014 - 11:41 AM

I think this is fundamental to a For Beginners forum. Beginners tend to lack the skills necessary to find and evaluate information. Indeed, often they don't understand how to take general advice and fit it to their specific situation. 

 

I think the answers to these questions actually do change, albeit slowly. While there is never a correct answer to "what language should I use", there are languages that you can use today which wouldn't have been realistic five or ten years ago. Something like XNA or Pygame can be the difference between a strong recommendation as a starting language and a more dismissive "sure, if you really want to". FAQs tend not to be maintained as one hopes or imagines.

 

They can be wildly optimistic about the kinds of projects that are feasible, and what a team cobbled together are likely to achieve. I'm not sure how to solve that problem, experience is the most likely deterrent. At least classifying and separating such projects separately helps them from drowning others, and having some kind of barrier to entry (e.g. a mandatory project template) can help prevent that idea a newbie thought of two minutes ago becoming yet another entry on the forum. I've not seen too much of this lately but I don't follow the classifieds, so maybe it is still a problem.

 

No, it isn't fun answering what seems to be the same question over and over. If you don't like it, as others have said, you can ignore them. In any case, during the summer break there is a lot more than the rest of the year, chalk that up to the younger folk having more free time. Kudos to them for using that to try something new!



#12 Waterlimon   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 2643

Posted 27 July 2014 - 11:47 AM


FAQs tend not to be maintained as one hopes or imagines.

 

Something like a wiki might be useful. Not only for common advice as found in FAQs (as an up to date version), but also for anything else worthwhile like rendering techniques or tutorials or links to articles... There would be overlap with the article system though.


o3o


#13 superman3275   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 2061

Posted 27 July 2014 - 11:47 AM

I'm not talking about Banning the users. I'm talking about removing a post which asks these questions and sending the posters a link to one of the many blog posts answering their questions.

 

I feel like the forum would be better if we eliminated this noise and directed people who ask these questions to the FAQ or another resource where their question has already been answered.


Edited by superman3275, 27 July 2014 - 11:52 AM.

I'm a game programmer and computer science ninja ph34r.png!

Here's my 2D RPG-Ish Platformer Programmed in Python + Pygame, with a Custom Level Editor and Rendering System!

 

Here's my Custom IDE / Debugger Programmed in Pure Python and Designed from the Ground Up for Programming Education!

Want to ask about Python, Flask, wxPython, Pygame, C++, HTML5, CSS3, Javascript, jQuery, C++, Vimscript, SFML 1.6 / 2.0, or anything else? Recruiting for a game development team and need a passionate programmer? Just want to talk about programming? Email me here:

hobohm.business@gmail.com

or Personal-Message me on here smile.png!


#14 superman3275   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 2061

Posted 27 July 2014 - 11:50 AM

 

Hehe, someone just made a post about posts like these.

I am guessing the main thing you are getting at is that if a person wanted to come here as a beginner, it would be hard to find useful information in the "for beginners" due to the fact just about all of the topics there are the same "MMORPG with no programming skill" posts. As well as the "what is the best language" topics.

My answer to the "which language is best is that it depends on what you are doing.

"Just as you don't write essays with Excel, you don't write websites with Python. And some languages are more efficient at some things. It depends."

Now I can save that answer to my notepad, and copy and paste. Hehe. But, I don't really respond to those types of questions much anymore. It has been answered enough here.

All of the good "for beginners" posts are indeed buried underneath repetitive posts.

Haha, I write websites with Python :)!


Edited by superman3275, 27 July 2014 - 11:52 AM.

I'm a game programmer and computer science ninja ph34r.png!

Here's my 2D RPG-Ish Platformer Programmed in Python + Pygame, with a Custom Level Editor and Rendering System!

 

Here's my Custom IDE / Debugger Programmed in Pure Python and Designed from the Ground Up for Programming Education!

Want to ask about Python, Flask, wxPython, Pygame, C++, HTML5, CSS3, Javascript, jQuery, C++, Vimscript, SFML 1.6 / 2.0, or anything else? Recruiting for a game development team and need a passionate programmer? Just want to talk about programming? Email me here:

hobohm.business@gmail.com

or Personal-Message me on here smile.png!


#15 Amr0   Members   -  Reputation: 1158

Posted 27 July 2014 - 12:27 PM

How about extending the rating system to include ratings for threads rather than just individual posts? People would rate up a thread which has useful, accurate, rich content, good questions and good answers... etc, and rate down repetitive threads which contain no value except for OP himself?



#16 Servant of the Lord   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 21166

Posted 27 July 2014 - 01:15 PM

 

FAQs tend not to be maintained as one hopes or imagines.

 
Something like a wiki might be useful. Not only for common advice as found in FAQs (as an up to date version), but also for anything else worthwhile like rendering techniques or tutorials or links to articles... There would be overlap with the article system though.

A wiki for game programming and design? That's a great idea! We should create one. Well, actually, we should find an existing one to save us work, bully the owner into letting us use their content, migrate it to our servers, and do nothing with it, then let them fork it and migrate back to their own servers, later merging our content (what little of it we actually created) back into their fork, remove all the links from GameDev.net to the wiki, and then ultimately just redirect wiki.gamedev.net to their original domain name, pretending it never happened.

Ready? Go. 

tongue.png


Edited by Servant of the Lord, 27 July 2014 - 01:26 PM.

It's perfectly fine to abbreviate my username to 'Servant' rather than copy+pasting it all the time.
All glory be to the Man at the right hand... On David's throne the King will reign, and the Government will rest upon His shoulders. All the earth will see the salvation of God.
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#17 superman3275   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 2061

Posted 27 July 2014 - 01:52 PM

I think these remove the focus from the good, instructive questions and lessen the forum's overall worth. If we remove these posts, while directing the Posters to places where their question is already answered, we'll have a better forum. I personally would step up and look through all the new posts in For beginners at the end of each day and remove the ones like I've listed. Then again, I'd probably be a terrible moderator tongue.png.


I'm a game programmer and computer science ninja ph34r.png!

Here's my 2D RPG-Ish Platformer Programmed in Python + Pygame, with a Custom Level Editor and Rendering System!

 

Here's my Custom IDE / Debugger Programmed in Pure Python and Designed from the Ground Up for Programming Education!

Want to ask about Python, Flask, wxPython, Pygame, C++, HTML5, CSS3, Javascript, jQuery, C++, Vimscript, SFML 1.6 / 2.0, or anything else? Recruiting for a game development team and need a passionate programmer? Just want to talk about programming? Email me here:

hobohm.business@gmail.com

or Personal-Message me on here smile.png!


#18 aregee   Members   -  Reputation: 1026

Posted 27 July 2014 - 03:22 PM

I'm not talking about Banning the users. I'm talking about removing a post which asks these questions and sending the posters a link to one of the many blog posts answering their questions.

 

I feel like the forum would be better if we eliminated this noise and directed people who ask these questions to the FAQ or another resource where their question has already been answered.

 

I see your point, but better for whom?  If this forum is for everybody, which I strongly believe, since there is a beginner section at all, then those questions will come over and over.  As rip-off said, "Beginners tend to lack the skills necessary to find and evaluate information", I would like to add they also probably lack the patience to read through the massive amount of information that is thrown at them every time they make such posts to the forum. I also think Servant of the Lord had a lots of good point too.  I like the wiki idea.  When I think about it, my first thought is that a wiki may be working even better than the documentation project that has been going on here for a while.  That means everyone gets to participate to increase the quality of the information.



#19 rip-off   Moderators   -  Reputation: 8762

Posted 27 July 2014 - 03:24 PM

Educating beginners keeps the flow into the community alive. They'll either get help elsewhere, and probably stay there when their questions become more interesting, or not get help at all and possibly give up.

 

It can actually be an interesting challenge to come up with a really good answer for some beginner questions. Trying to balance solving the problem while also explaining the (often arcane) reason for the problem without getting bogged down in the detail, can be tricky. Another balancing act is between giving them enough information to find the answer themselves, without spoon feeding them or seeming dismissive or condescending - all too easy in a text only medium and when the people you're talking may not be fully mature yet.

 

Not technically taxing, but I think my years of practise here has done wonders for my overall communications skills.



#20 Tutorial Doctor   Members   -  Reputation: 1692

Posted 27 July 2014 - 08:57 PM

Bad analogy. Haha!

It's the first one that came to my head.

Do you make powerpoints with Word? Haha

They call me the Tutorial Doctor.





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