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I'm Getting Sick of The Same Posts Over and Over


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#21 jefferytitan   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 2246

Posted 27 July 2014 - 09:53 PM

I think it's important to accommodate newbies, and yes some of the questions are eye-rolling material. But if it's not your cup of tea, skip it. I do. ;)

 

My thought (and I never push too hard when it comes to making forum changes) is to perhaps leverage the tagging system better. A moderator could tag repetitive new posts accordingly and give the OP links to the appropriate tagged pages. If you could have pinned topics per tag it would be a good way to channel similar people together with good answers. Bonus points for "exclude this tag" for the grumpy amongst us. ;)



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#22 ISDCaptain01   Members   -  Reputation: 1443

Posted 28 July 2014 - 02:53 AM

We all were noobs at one point and asked those questions. What if you got scared off by the same elitist attitude? You might not have even been where you are now. Something to think about.


Edited by ISDCaptain01, 28 July 2014 - 02:53 AM.


#23 superman3275   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 2061

Posted 28 July 2014 - 06:09 AM

I think it's important to accommodate newbies, and yes some of the questions are eye-rolling material. But if it's not your cup of tea, skip it. I do. ;)

 

My thought (and I never push too hard when it comes to making forum changes) is to perhaps leverage the tagging system better. A moderator could tag repetitive new posts accordingly and give the OP links to the appropriate tagged pages. If you could have pinned topics per tag it would be a good way to channel similar people together with good answers. Bonus points for "exclude this tag" for the grumpy amongst us. ;)

This is a great idea. Moderators could tag posts like I mentioned and add a button to the for beginners forum which filters all those posts out (for the people that can't figure out how to do it themselves). That way these people can get their questions answered, but those of us who'd like more constructive discussion aren't being bombarded with the same posts.


Edited by superman3275, 28 July 2014 - 06:10 AM.

I'm a game programmer and computer science ninja ph34r.png!

Here's my 2D RPG-Ish Platformer Programmed in Python + Pygame, with a Custom Level Editor and Rendering System!

 

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Want to ask about Python, Flask, wxPython, Pygame, C++, HTML5, CSS3, Javascript, jQuery, C++, Vimscript, SFML 1.6 / 2.0, or anything else? Recruiting for a game development team and need a passionate programmer? Just want to talk about programming? Email me here:

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#24 swiftcoder   Senior Moderators   -  Reputation: 10440

Posted 28 July 2014 - 06:28 AM


This is a great idea. Moderators could tag posts like I mentioned and add a button to the for beginners forum which filters all those posts out (for the people that can't figure out how to do it themselves). That way these people can get their questions answered, but those of us who'd like more constructive discussion aren't being bombarded with the same posts.

And there we go again, taking a system that should just add additional information, and converting it to something horribly elitist.

 

Is it really so hard to use the other forums, that you need to ruin For Beginners for it's intended audience?


Tristam MacDonald - Software Engineer @Amazon - [swiftcoding]


#25 Stormynature   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 3422

Posted 28 July 2014 - 06:42 AM

Whether you choose to interact with a thread of "dubious" or "naive" content is up to you. If you choose to involve yourself in such content then expect to meet with behaviours and/or replies that might not be the "norm" in other threads. Most importantly though, don't troll yourself by engaging in such a thread. It is a choice.



#26 smr   GDNet+   -  Reputation: 1682

Posted 28 July 2014 - 07:40 AM

I have been a gamedev.net member for... wow! Over a decade! That's nearly one third of my entire life! And I've never been bothered by beginners asking beginner questions. I just scroll past them if I'm not interested, just like with any other forum topic. 

 

If this is something that really bothers a lot of people, why not enable users to include and exclude topics on their view of the New Content page? If I feel my time is too valuable, or that I'm too good to be arsed with scrolling past questions from people who haven't got a clue, I can just open the list, remove the check next to "For Beginners," and call it a day. Maybe we already can do this? It's not something I've looked into.

 

Edit: It turns out that we can. Just follow the "Filter by forum" link on the left side of the topic list then check all the forums you care about. Leave For Beginners unchecked. Done!


Edited by smr, 28 July 2014 - 07:46 AM.


#27 KnolanCross   Members   -  Reputation: 1369

Posted 28 July 2014 - 08:19 AM

Well, maybe we could update the FAQ, with a part per language, because A LOT of the posts I have seen since my almolst two years here have been "where do I start", "What language should I learn" and "What is the best engine". I would write the C part. It would age, but there is not much we can do about it.

 

Also we could have a stick saying:

 

"IF YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU NEED TO CREATE A MMORPG, YOU ARE NOT READY TO MAKE ONE!",

 

bold and red color would be a plus smile.png


Currently working on a scene editor for ORX (http://orx-project.org), using kivy (http://kivy.org).


#28 phantom   Moderators   -  Reputation: 7593

Posted 28 July 2014 - 08:34 AM

Also we could have a stick saying:
 
"IF YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU NEED TO CREATE A MMORPG, YOU ARE NOT READY TO MAKE ONE!",
 
bold and red color would be a plus smile.png


People ignore stickies (and FAQ) because often they can't tell that their little precious snowflake of an idea/question/query is precisely the same as all the other instances it has been asked; they simple often lack the knowledge to make that connection so there isn't a great deal which can be done about it.

This is why you get post which start "I've seen all the other posts, but here is my situation..." - as yet they can not see that the other situation is basically the same as their own.

#29 ShadowFlar3   Members   -  Reputation: 1258

Posted 28 July 2014 - 08:35 AM

It's not obligatory for a beginner to make those kind of posts. They COULD just read the FAQ / pinned posts / search forums which cover the usual questions and do more of "lurking" in lack of a better word before they start posting.

 

I'm not sure how to handle the fact that we still get so many posts of this kind. But I'm sure that taking more actions on the extremely repetitive topics isn't going to reduce the flow of new blood on the site. It's going to (hopefully) block some 101's posting but in those cases the chances are they weren't going to climb any higher with such effort / motivation anyway.

 

Indeed what I am more worried about with the phenomenon more is along the OP's lines and also there has been another topic on this subject recently. Seeing the same stuff asked day after day is not easy on the people that want to help. How many times have we re-iterated the answer to "which language should I use?" Where are those people now? Are they here among us, helping the new users? The gut feeling I have tells me that for most part they've come and they've gone regardless on the answer.



#30 KnolanCross   Members   -  Reputation: 1369

Posted 28 July 2014 - 08:51 AM

 

Also we could have a stick saying:
 
"IF YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU NEED TO CREATE A MMORPG, YOU ARE NOT READY TO MAKE ONE!",
 
bold and red color would be a plus smile.png


People ignore stickies (and FAQ) because often they can't tell that their little precious snowflake of an idea/question/query is precisely the same as all the other instances it has been asked; they simple often lack the knowledge to make that connection so there isn't a great deal which can be done about it.

This is why you get post which start "I've seen all the other posts, but here is my situation..." - as yet they can not see that the other situation is basically the same as their own.

 

 

Maybe we could force new member to watch the posting and you?

 

On a serious note, with an update FAQ, we could simply link it and answer most of the questions.


Currently working on a scene editor for ORX (http://orx-project.org), using kivy (http://kivy.org).


#31 smr   GDNet+   -  Reputation: 1682

Posted 28 July 2014 - 09:10 AM

I don't really see this as a problem. Not every beginner has the same project in mind, and not every beginner will ask the same questions. Also, an active conversation is more engaging and more effective for many than reading a FAQ. If the goal of For Beginners is to connect beginners with experienced developers /who want to help them/, and other learners who can help each other, then we should encourage dialog, not discourage it.

If you do not fall into the category of experienced developer who wants to help beginners, then filterthe forum from your hot topics list and don't go into the forum. Simple as that.

#32 superman3275   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 2061

Posted 28 July 2014 - 10:08 AM

I just had a thought: Mentors!

 

What if older members of the community (Crossbones+) could opt-in to become "Mentors". New members posts would have to be approved by a "mentor", who would have to do a quick review of the new members post before it was made public. The "mentors" would be able to send them a PM answering their question (if it was something like "What programming language should I use"), and the For beginners section wouldn't be flooded with these questions over and over again.


I'm a game programmer and computer science ninja ph34r.png!

Here's my 2D RPG-Ish Platformer Programmed in Python + Pygame, with a Custom Level Editor and Rendering System!

 

Here's my Custom IDE / Debugger Programmed in Pure Python and Designed from the Ground Up for Programming Education!

Want to ask about Python, Flask, wxPython, Pygame, C++, HTML5, CSS3, Javascript, jQuery, C++, Vimscript, SFML 1.6 / 2.0, or anything else? Recruiting for a game development team and need a passionate programmer? Just want to talk about programming? Email me here:

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#33 ShadowFlar3   Members   -  Reputation: 1258

Posted 28 July 2014 - 10:29 AM

What with the Crossbones+ system being kind of fuzzy (is this still the latest on the matter?) I'd figure maybe something else...

 

-> it's kind of like moderating, you view it and approve or not for publishing and only moderators see the posts...

 

-> the moderators are actually pretty much all the site frequenters (except who don't want to participate) so really it'd be like the beginners were the only people who didn't see it.

 

-> it's like an own subforum for beginner questions that is only visible to experienced users before they're published in the beginner area

 

-> beginner posts would be more visible for experienced users and less visible to beginners who'd think "nobody seems to ask which language I should use!" since they get moderated out.

 

-> this doesn't make any sense.



#34 superman3275   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 2061

Posted 28 July 2014 - 05:23 PM

What with the Crossbones+ system being kind of fuzzy (is this still the latest on the matter?) I'd figure maybe something else...

 

-> it's kind of like moderating, you view it and approve or not for publishing and only moderators see the posts...

 

-> the moderators are actually pretty much all the site frequenters (except who don't want to participate) so really it'd be like the beginners were the only people who didn't see it.

 

-> it's like an own subforum for beginner questions that is only visible to experienced users before they're published in the beginner area

 

-> beginner posts would be more visible for experienced users and less visible to beginners who'd think "nobody seems to ask which language I should use!" since they get moderated out.

 

-> this doesn't make any sense.

Except I thought beginners were incapable of figuring out what language to use from the old posts. At least, that's what you guys have been saying.


Edited by superman3275, 28 July 2014 - 05:23 PM.

I'm a game programmer and computer science ninja ph34r.png!

Here's my 2D RPG-Ish Platformer Programmed in Python + Pygame, with a Custom Level Editor and Rendering System!

 

Here's my Custom IDE / Debugger Programmed in Pure Python and Designed from the Ground Up for Programming Education!

Want to ask about Python, Flask, wxPython, Pygame, C++, HTML5, CSS3, Javascript, jQuery, C++, Vimscript, SFML 1.6 / 2.0, or anything else? Recruiting for a game development team and need a passionate programmer? Just want to talk about programming? Email me here:

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or Personal-Message me on here smile.png!


#35 slicer4ever   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 3988

Posted 28 July 2014 - 05:24 PM

I just had a thought: Mentors!
 
What if older members of the community (Crossbones+) could opt-in to become "Mentors". New members posts would have to be approved by a "mentor", who would have to do a quick review of the new members post before it was made public. The "mentors" would be able to send them a PM answering their question (if it was something like "What programming language should I use"), and the For beginners section wouldn't be flooded with these questions over and over again.

Actually....this idea sounds rather interesting. It'd defiantly help cut down on the amount of redundancy that crops up from most beginners.

However their would have to be some limits, such that only this level of moderation occurs to members that are very new(less than 72 hours would probably be a good barrier). the system should not hide these posts if they are easily solved, but instead auto-post the thread/"mentor" response into a mega sticky thread in the beginner forum so that all of the information can be publicly viewed. and if no one responds to one of these posts within say 4-6 hours(or if a "mentor" says it's OK to post this.) it should be auto-posted. at least this is my opinion of how it could appropriately work.
 
in short, the mentor has no moderation control over the thread, they simply help facilitate a faster/more appropriate response.
 

What with the Crossbones+ system being kind of fuzzy (is this still the latest on the matter?) I'd figure maybe something else...


as far as i'm aware this is still the status, but truthfully i suspect if you pm any mod saying you'd like to contribute to the forum by being a cross-bone member, they'd gladly make you into one.

 

-> it's kind of like moderating, you view it and approve or not for publishing and only moderators see the posts...

-> beginner posts would be more visible for experienced users and less visible to beginners who'd think "nobody seems to ask which language I should use!" since they get moderated out.

I disagree, in no way would it be moderating, in my opinion all the information should still be publicly visible, it'd just be emplacing a potential delay on the poster.

 

-> the moderators are actually pretty much all the site frequenters (except who don't want to participate) so really it'd be like the beginners were the only people who didn't see it.

I disagree with the idea that the moderators are the only site frequenters. plenty of people lurk this site daily, and many of us sit in chat regularly. 
 
also, their are a crap ton of moderators whom no longer seem to be apart of this site. just look at the listed moderator for the lounge: http://www.gamedev.net/user/13498-ravuya/ last active over a year ago now.
 

-> it's like an own subforum for beginner questions that is only visible to experienced users before they're published in the beginner area

a sub-forum might be a decent way for this to work, but in theory all posts should still become publicly visible, it's just this sub-forum would allow filtering redundant/unrealistic posts into a mega-thread that doesn't cause other posts to fall down in visibility because someone once again came in with a "where do i start?" "what language should i use", etc. the beginner forum is practical in terms of beginner level questions, but should it really be flooded with trivial questions that have been asked/answered a billion times. their's a major beginner level difference between a question like "how do i move a paddle in pong?" and "what language should i choose?" both of these questions are beginner level, and yes, both have been answered a bunch of times. but one is a specific problem to programming.

edit: as of this post, there are 6 posts on the first page of for beginners that in my opinion would fall under this mentor system:

http://www.gamedev.net/topic/659100-i-want-to-make-a-prototype-game/
http://www.gamedev.net/topic/659040-moba-where-to-start-feedback-appreciated/
http://www.gamedev.net/topic/659076-where-to-start-for-life-simulation-game/
http://www.gamedev.net/topic/658625-i-want-to-learn-to-make-games-what-is-my-path/
http://www.gamedev.net/topic/659240-getting-started-from-almost-complete-scratch/
http://www.gamedev.net/topic/659094-game-engine-that-will-meet-my-requirements/

Edited by slicer4ever, 28 July 2014 - 05:53 PM.

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#36 swiftcoder   Senior Moderators   -  Reputation: 10440

Posted 28 July 2014 - 07:28 PM

-> it's like an own subforum for beginner questions

What the hell do you guys think the For Beginners forum is, if not that?

Edit:
I also think that this thread is a little rich, given that the OP has this thread, followed by this other thread, within his first 10 threads on the forum.

 

I usually wouldn't stoop to digging through a user's ancient posting history, but I think this nicely demonstrates the truism that "we were all beginners at some point", and on the basis of that, we probably shouldn't try and ruin it for the next guy.


Tristam MacDonald - Software Engineer @Amazon - [swiftcoding]


#37 superman3275   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 2061

Posted 28 July 2014 - 08:21 PM

 

-> it's like an own subforum for beginner questions

What the hell do you guys think the For Beginners forum is, if not that?

Edit:
I also think that this thread is a little rich, given that the OP has this thread, followed by this other thread, within his first 10 threads on the forum.

 

I usually wouldn't stoop to digging through a user's ancient posting history, but I think this nicely demonstrates the truism that "we were all beginners at some point", and on the basis of that, we probably shouldn't try and ruin it for the next guy.

 

Yes, I fully agree that I was a beginner once. And I wholeheartedly feel that I would have walked away feeling that I'd got better answers with the proposed system implemented.


Edited by superman3275, 28 July 2014 - 08:22 PM.

I'm a game programmer and computer science ninja ph34r.png!

Here's my 2D RPG-Ish Platformer Programmed in Python + Pygame, with a Custom Level Editor and Rendering System!

 

Here's my Custom IDE / Debugger Programmed in Pure Python and Designed from the Ground Up for Programming Education!

Want to ask about Python, Flask, wxPython, Pygame, C++, HTML5, CSS3, Javascript, jQuery, C++, Vimscript, SFML 1.6 / 2.0, or anything else? Recruiting for a game development team and need a passionate programmer? Just want to talk about programming? Email me here:

hobohm.business@gmail.com

or Personal-Message me on here smile.png!


#38 ShadowFlar3   Members   -  Reputation: 1258

Posted 29 July 2014 - 07:31 AM

 

-> it's like an own subforum for beginner questions

What the hell do you guys think the For Beginners forum is, if not that?

 

It was my freaking point. This system is already virtually there. I was against this. God. Way to read and then lash at the only person highlighting the fact for the likes of you.


Edited by ShadowFlar3, 29 July 2014 - 07:32 AM.


#39 superman3275   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 2061

Posted 29 July 2014 - 07:49 AM

 

 

-> it's like an own subforum for beginner questions

What the hell do you guys think the For Beginners forum is, if not that?

 

It was my freaking point. This system is already virtually there. I was against this. God. Way to read and then lash at the only person highlighting the fact for the likes of you.

 

You're completely missing the point of the whole system.


I'm a game programmer and computer science ninja ph34r.png!

Here's my 2D RPG-Ish Platformer Programmed in Python + Pygame, with a Custom Level Editor and Rendering System!

 

Here's my Custom IDE / Debugger Programmed in Pure Python and Designed from the Ground Up for Programming Education!

Want to ask about Python, Flask, wxPython, Pygame, C++, HTML5, CSS3, Javascript, jQuery, C++, Vimscript, SFML 1.6 / 2.0, or anything else? Recruiting for a game development team and need a passionate programmer? Just want to talk about programming? Email me here:

hobohm.business@gmail.com

or Personal-Message me on here smile.png!


#40 ShadowFlar3   Members   -  Reputation: 1258

Posted 29 July 2014 - 08:49 AM


 
ShadowFlar3, on 28 Jul 2014 - 7:29 PM, said:
What with the Crossbones+ system being kind of fuzzy (is this still the latest on the matter?) I'd figure maybe something else...

as far as i'm aware this is still the status, but truthfully i suspect if you pm any mod saying you'd like to contribute to the forum by being a cross-bone member, they'd gladly make you into one.

How is begging for a decorative title after your name "contributing"? 

 


ShadowFlar3, on 28 Jul 2014 - 7:29 PM, said:
-> it's kind of like moderating, you view it and approve or not for publishing and only moderators see the posts...
ShadowFlar3, on 28 Jul 2014 - 7:29 PM, said:
-> beginner posts would be more visible for experienced users and less visible to beginners who'd think "nobody seems to ask which language I should use!" since they get moderated out.
I disagree, in no way would it be moderating, in my opinion all the information should still be publicly visible, it'd just be emplacing a potential delay on the poster.

"I disagree your view posted hours ago accurately describes this system I just made up and typed in this very same post" No, quite surprisingly I was commenting on OPs proposition that actually existed by the time I posted.

 


ShadowFlar3, on 28 Jul 2014 - 7:29 PM, said:
-> the moderators are actually pretty much all the site frequenters (except who don't want to participate) so really it'd be like the beginners were the only people who didn't see it.
I disagree with the idea that the moderators are the only site frequenters. plenty of people lurk this site daily, and many of us sit in chat regularly. 

I didn't state that frequenters were explicitly moderators. By moderators I was referring to OPs mentoring system moderators, which would have been obvious if you read my previous sentences that you quoted just above.

 


ShadowFlar3, on 28 Jul 2014 - 7:29 PM, said:
-> it's like an own subforum for beginner questions that is only visible to experienced users before they're published in the beginner area
a sub-forum might be a decent way for this to work

Wow, look at you! Despite all the stumbling and getting lost you still arrive where I was leading you. We have the beginners-subforum already where the "problem" is more or less contained with adequate results/effort ratio.

 


You're completely missing the point of the whole system.

You're suggesting:

- make current "for beginners" subforum only visible to some group of "sub-moderators" (I'm not going to use the word mentor, I don't find it accurate in the system you describe) making it some kind of "secret forum"

- make a new "for proper beginners" subforum that is identical to the above closed subforum where proper posts are moved

- beginners only see the good posts on the "for proper beginners" subforum and aren't exposed to the trash their kind is responsible of (that they really need to see)

- most people opt to become "sub-moderators" so they can see and act on the posts on the exciting "secret forum"! and will be exposed to the trash. Everybody wants to see them and nobody wants to try to answer them.

 

=> duplicate beginner forums, new fuzzy sub-moderator group to manage and for what? So that beginners will be spared from the unwanted content while only the most experienced selected few carry the burden to single handedly answer every iteration of spam type posts by PM. Because the noobs can't even see that certain stuff like programming language gets asked a lot they will ask it a lot more. Who's up?






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