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A Game Engine Question (UDK, Torque, Unity)


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#1 the Almighty Pixel   Members   -  Reputation: 97

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Posted 06 August 2014 - 08:52 AM

Hi all,

So I've been trying to decide what game engine should I use for a game I've been trying to start working on.

I'm attempting to make a game that is a Stealth/Action/Shooter-game, with a third person view.

 

The game would have:

 - Many scripted events

 - Nice special effects, such as "out-of-this-world explosions", etc.

 - Cutscenes (along with a storyline)

 - Stealth mechanics

 - Possibly a few different vehicles

( - A Co-op campaign)

(- A Multiplayer mode, possibly a Versus-mode)

 - The game would mainly be for PC.

 

These are the features I've been planning for the game to have, but what I'd like to know is what game engine could I use to achieve most (or why not all) of these features? Also, I am working on the game by myself, so I guess that's something to throw out there.

 

I've used Unity 4.X for a few months and made a simple game, which was relatively easy, but what I didn't like about Unity is that it doesn't quite have the nice effects my game. Unless you pay $1,500, that is. I know I could make my game for free, but it'd probably end up looking like garbage thrown up by a seagull.

 

I've also looked at Torque 3D, which is open-source (probably has been for a while now), but it was a pain to set up and so I decided to ditch Torque completely.

 

I've also looked at UDK, which pretty much has everything I need. Nice effects, cutscene support, networking, quite a lot of presets for shooter games, and a good documentation (a bit messy to navigate through though IMHO). Also, I don't mind the fact that you'll have to pay royalties to Epic when your game crosses $50K in revenue.

 

So, I'd like to get some help with this; What engine should I use? UDK (which I'm heavily considering atm), Unity or Torque (which I'd rather not use)? Also, time is not an issue.

 

Thanks in advance,

TAP

 



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#2 RaoulJWZ   Members   -  Reputation: 678

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Posted 06 August 2014 - 09:06 AM

May i ask if you know any programming or scripting language, if so, which one?

Because it will be a lot more easy to decide!



#3 ferrous   Members   -  Reputation: 2075

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Posted 06 August 2014 - 09:16 AM

I'd lean towards Unreal4, they've got better effects support at a lower price point, and cutscenes should also be easier.  That said, if this your first game, I might steer you towards Unity, it's easier to use, more examples, and honestly, you shouldn't really be worried about pushing graphics that much on your first game.


Edited by ferrous, 06 August 2014 - 09:17 AM.


#4 the Almighty Pixel   Members   -  Reputation: 97

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Posted 06 August 2014 - 10:06 AM

May i ask if you know any programming or scripting language, if so, which one?
Because it will be a lot more easy to decide!



I know some JavaScript and C#, altough learning a new language wouldn't be bad.

#5 the Almighty Pixel   Members   -  Reputation: 97

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Posted 06 August 2014 - 10:17 AM

I'd lean towards Unreal4, they've got better effects support at a lower price point, and cutscenes should also be easier.  That said, if this your first game, I might steer you towards Unity, it's easier to use, more examples, and honestly, you shouldn't really be worried about pushing graphics that much on your first game.


Thanks for the response!
This would be my first "serious" game project.
Also, I'd rather use UDK for the game than UE4, since UDK is free until I decide to publish the game. And from what I know, UE4 isn't really fully finished. UDK is enough for me on the graphical side and the fact that it's free, makes me prefer it over UE4. Also, about the graphics, I've always been a sucker for great visuals and effects, so I'd like to make my game look really nice.

#6 3Ddreamer   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 3159

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Posted 06 August 2014 - 10:44 AM

Torque 3D has a community and third party art assets that are really good.  The effects offered for Torque are dazzling like you typically see these days.  Unity and UDK also have all that but I feel that they are easier to find, acquire, and use in Torque 3D if you want pre-made stuff.  Of course you may customize what is offered.


Personal life and your private thoughts always effect your career. Research is the intellectual backbone of game development and the first order. Version Control is crucial for full management of applications and software.  The better the workflow pipeline, then the greater the potential output for a quality game.  Completing projects is the last but finest order.

 

by Clinton, 3Ddreamer


#7 Gian-Reto   Members   -  Reputation: 1379

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Posted 06 August 2014 - 11:28 AM

Seeing the big list of features, you working alone and this being your first "serious" project, I really wouldn't worry too much about small details like "that last bit of polish" missing in Unity Free. But anyway, lets asume you will have the skill and time needed to pursue this project without the money:

 

In Unity free are gone lose out on soft shadows, and no Image Effects means no SSAO or stuff like that. AFAIK Deferred is also not possible, if you wanted to go that way.

 

Now, that 1500$ pricetag seems steep, I give you that. And seeing that you are not interested in earning real cash with your product, royalities will most probably not bother you (else you would steer clear of UDK!).

What I don't get: UE4 costs you 20$ bucks for a one month access. You can get the engine in that month and cancel your subscription, keep working with the engine and its totally legal!

So 20 bucks for one of THE Highend Engines on the market currently...

 

 

Most probably you didn't get the thing with the pay 20$, download, cancel, and only care about it when the royalities (5%, much better than UDK) would kick in again.

 

 

Lets do a quick comparison:

 

UDK: out of date now, pretty good for a lastgen engine, but no further development. Price: Free, but 25% royalities over 50k (if that still holds true).

UE4: pretty up to date, actively developed. Price: 20$ (5% royalities)

Unity: Will be pretty up to date again with Unity 5, a little bit dated now without third party packages (but there are a lot of them, some even free).

Price: Free (but with lots of missing features, if you really need them), or 1500$ (no royalities)

 

 

With your budget and your graphical feature list, UE4 looks like the best contender.


Edited by Gian-Reto, 06 August 2014 - 11:32 AM.


#8 dsm1891   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 1434

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Posted 07 August 2014 - 06:23 AM

Torque, torque...

This is me :cool: , this is me burning torque with a flame thrower :cool: < Torque3d .

 

I have had ample experience with torque and have come to the conclusion, you should only use the engine if you want to make a FPS.

 

Torque 3D has a community and third party art assets that are really good.  The effects offered for Torque are dazzling like you typically see these days. 

 

True torque do have a community. HOWEVER trying to get support for your specific version of torque is a mine field. There are lots of forum threads on how to do things, which is great.... unless you are using an up to date version of torque (some forum threads on their website date back since 2008 and less). Because torque changes a lot in, various different ways, with each version they help you will find will most likely be out dated or impossible to implement.

 

And yes, you can easily make a game which looks like a AAA game with relative amount of ease. In fact a couple of years ago I saw someone's game level which was on par with Far Cry 3 (They are partnered with Garage Games). The effects where stunning, and it did look good. . . . . Until you moved, the level ran between 4 and 12 frames per second on mid range machines (i5 6GB ram 2GB graphics card (unsure of the specific specs)). Adding any medium-high poly model to the level kills frame rate, and lighting/water effects only makes it worse.

 

 

At the end of the day my opinion of torque is that it is a poorly optimised engine and often a hard to use one. My advice would be to stay away. Please. It's not worth it.

 

p.s. it may be of your interest to know only 2(ish) games of the 7 year lifespan of the engine have been published (one was frozen synapse)



#9 Dwarf King   Crossbones+   -  Reputation: 1888

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Posted 08 August 2014 - 07:15 AM


And yes, you can easily make a game which looks like a AAA game with relative amount of ease. In fact a couple of years ago I saw someone's game level which was on par with Far Cry 3 (They are partnered with Garage Games). The effects where stunning, and it did look good. . . . . Until you moved, the level ran between 4 and 12 frames per second on mid range machines (i5 6GB ram 2GB graphics card (unsure of the specific specs)). Adding any medium-high poly model to the level kills frame rate, and lighting/water effects only makes it worse.

 

Torque 3D is a fine engine if you understand what you are dealing with. It has its limitations. You will not be able to throw hundreds of particle effects into a level and still use tons of high polygon numbered 3D art and keep huge view distances. Yeah it looks good but hardly makes it playable. Low polygon models and the illusion of being in a huge world can be done(valleys, skyboxes, blocking view etc.). Triggers to spawn AI and trigger particles and effects is the way to go.

 

Unreal 4 is a fine piece of tech as well. But if you take the elemental demo and run it on a pretty good machine you will understand that games with such effects will demand some real killer machines. I ran that demo on my Alienware m17x R2 machine and it had some lags now and then ;)

 

Unity3D is also a valid option.

 

 

 


A Multiplayer mode, possibly a Versus-mode

 

Torque 3D gives you that out of the box. Also you should really download the latest binary version http://mit.garagegames.com/Torque3D-3-5-1.zip

 

Unreal 4 and Unity I have not used much with multi player.

 

 

 


Many scripted events

 

All three mention engines are fine here. Unreal 4 comes with the Blueprint system that is a visual scripting system. You can make your own blueprints with C++.

 

 

 


Nice special effects, such as "out-of-this-world explosions", etc.

 

Well that Unreal 4 can do but you have to tweak the particle system to your will. Torque 3D has a commercial plugin called AFX 2.0(http://www.garagegames.com/products/afx-2.0-torque3d) that gives you a whole new Torque 3D RPG engine with tons of already done special effects that you easily can twist(you work with datablocks and Torque Script). For example you can change the color of the zodiac art(circles with symbols etc.) for a spell in Gimp or Photoshop and twist range, animations etc and then you have new spells.

 

Of course I am kind of biased as I have been using Torque tech more or less full time smile.png

 

The community is utterly strong you can always find a solution to an issue on the website. Torque Script is still used and most solutions from years back can with few twist be implemented in your own game.

 

Torque 3D has some drawbacks:

  • Not yet multi platform but it can more or less run on Linux now and Mac people are working on
  • DX9 support only but DX11 is on its way
  • 65 K polygon import limits(Collada) for models...
  • No fbx support...
  • Many people like to hate the engine...
  • It is no longer supported by Garage Games as such. The community nurse and develop the engine(the Steering community)... okay hardly a drawback as the engine has seen a huge boost in stability and bug fixing since I started use Torque 3D 1.2 back then.

Some positive pros:

  • MIT license(without plugins.. Clean engine)... Free to use it in any way
  • No royalties
  • Access to all the source code(if you need that, some don't)
  • A fine simple C like scripting language
  • Many awesome plugins and powerful techs you can implement or use external

Techs? What techs?

  • AFX-2.0 explosions and storms here and now!
  • UAIK, click drop and you got evil enemies or allies round you.
  • PureLight(a little like Beast in Unity)... kind of expensive, awesome prebaked light. Dynamic lighting can then be used less and better fps performance is then seen when making killer awesome good looking levels/zones/areas.
  • Embed HTML menus in your game? T3D Awesomium  Search youtube for it
  • You do not need to use 3ds Max, Blender will do fine for modelling and the export to Collada

Now then I can sleep well. I feel that with my post Torque tech in the 21st century has gotten a fair review and as such cons and pros of this tech has been presented to all who read this thread. Oh and as a side note I no longer develop in Torque 3D since a few weeks ago my company has moved to another platform. So I am no fan boy. I simply just feel that the truth should be told about Torque tech. 

 

Torque 3D is a fine engine if you know its limitations and capabilities and you find them to fit your needs smile.png

 

If you want to see with your own eyes then this will amaze you:

http://garagegames.github.io/Torque3D/engine/#made-with-torque


Edited by Dwarf King, 08 August 2014 - 07:20 AM.

"The only thing that interferes with my learning is my education"

Albert Einstein

"It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education"

Albert Einstein

 


#10 GoCatGo   GDNet+   -  Reputation: 1637

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Posted 08 August 2014 - 09:11 AM

I've seen a man build a guitar -- an actual, playable, great sounding guitar -- using nothing but an axe, some saws, a few chisels, and a screwdriver.  He started with a tree and limited tools, in the end he had a beautiful instrument.

 

Discussions about tools are pointless.  Make what you can with what you have.  Your limitations are your biggest stumbling block, not your budget or particle effects support.


Edited by GoCatGo, 08 August 2014 - 09:11 AM.

Indie games are what indie movies were in the early 90s -- half-baked, poorly executed wastes of time that will quickly fall out of fashion.  Now go make Minecraft with wizards and watch the dozen or so remakes of Reservior Dogs.


#11 Gian-Reto   Members   -  Reputation: 1379

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Posted 08 August 2014 - 06:45 PM

I've seen a man build a guitar -- an actual, playable, great sounding guitar -- using nothing but an axe, some saws, a few chisels, and a screwdriver.  He started with a tree and limited tools, in the end he had a beautiful instrument.

 

Discussions about tools are pointless.  Make what you can with what you have.  Your limitations are your biggest stumbling block, not your budget or particle effects support.

 

Jap.... take the right input and your game will look good in any engine. Some will need more optimizations than other. But in the end, a well built game will hide all this limitations...

 

And also, just because you start on one engine doesn't mean you are stuck there until the end of the world. Just pick one, get good with it, and if you feel like it, try another one.



#12 rAm_y_   Members   -  Reputation: 454

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Posted 08 August 2014 - 10:24 PM

Are there any open source games made with T3D, including all assests?




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