Multiple battles in same place

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9 comments, last by Acharis 9 years, 3 months ago

I have this problem, there are various races (factions) and they can move ships over systems to fight. But it gives me a headache a situation when more than 2 parties are involved.

I don't want a complex multi sides battle system, I really don't want it. The typical situation is 1 vs 1 battle and that's what will be happening most of the time. But sometimes 2 conquerors might move on the same defended planet and... yeah, what then? Who attacks whom?

Note: that battles can take more than one turn so a trick where we ressolve a battle fully after each race's move won't work.

Note 2: the game is assymetrical, 1 player and X computer opponents and their rules don't need to be the same (battle rules for computer could be different - actually in some cases these will be different for immersion purposes), so we are not limited by traditional turn order or anything like that

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Well, one solution might be to avoid the problem: claim that the large accumulation of faster-than-light drives, shields and energy weapons prevents further ships from jumping in via whatever FTL mechanism you have; whoever arrives second to the battlefield is left in hyperspace/Alcubierre bubble/whatever until the battle is resolved and the attendant interference has subsided, at which point they pop into space and give battle themselves.

Another, similar--but more drastic--idea might be to decide that the accumulation of faster-than-light drives, shields and energy weapons outright destroys any further ships that jump in: the last party to the battle loses by default. (Which might have some interesting effects. For example, the player orders an attack on planet X, with a fleet due to arrive in three turns. Ubeknownst to them, an AI has already ordered an attack on X; two turns later, the AI fleet shows up and battle is joined. The player now has to hastily call back their ships--presuming that they notice the battle and don't lose the fleet to inattention--losing the initiative and leaving a portion of their forces unavailble in hyperspace/Alcubierre bubble/whatever while they return to base.)

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Since this is multiplayer, your heuristics should assume that the player always fights in the first wave. This creates consistency for the player, and makes them understand that, ultimately, THEY are the bigger threat. It also minimizes the amount of enemies fighting one another when facing off these types of scenarios (which might result in an undeserved win for the player that fights off against scraps).

Assuming an encounter of 3, including the player, the player would need to fight against one of these opponents, and the victor (player or AI) would fight off the other AI.

Now, how to determine the AI the player will confront? I would suggest always fighting the dominant force first. It makes sense from a theme standpoint and it should also make more sense when fighting off the 2nd weaker opponent with your remaining forces.

With the given scenario (two attackers independently attacking the same planet) I would have the attackers fight each other, then the survivor fights the planet. This gives an advantage to whoever owns the planet itself, and mirrors a bit of history - occasionally two independent armies WOULD go for the same fortified place at the same time, and when that happened they would often tear each other to pieces over the "right" to take the planet, weakening themselves past the point of actually being able to take it.

So for any fortified or otherwise conquerable area, that's how I'd do it. If the fight lasts more than one turn, the fortified area fights no one - unless they choose to specifically attack one fleet, maybe?

For three different fleets meeting out in space somewhere (assuming that is possible in your game), you can try to decide on other factors (do fleets have a "speed" attribute of any kind? If so, the two fastest fight first), or have the game try to guess what will give the player the most fun - and what THAT means is entirely up to you. As battles can last more than one turn, you may need to have a system where either defeated fleets "flee" a short distance or multiple hostile fleets can actually occupy the same tile, even if only two can fight each other at a time.

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what happens if two lions seen a gazelle? They have only two options: fight each other (probably, and good for the gazelle) or form an alliance.


Well, one solution might be to avoid the problem: claim that the large accumulation of faster-than-light drives, shields and energy weapons prevents further ships from jumping in via whatever FTL mechanism you have; whoever arrives second to the battlefield is left in hyperspace/Alcubierre bubble/whatever until the battle is resolved and the attendant interference has subsided, at which point they pop into space and give battle themselves.
The problem is a battle can last for 10 turns in some cases (two weak parties sending reinforcements every turn and got locked in a stalemate - while your wastly superior fleet that could wipe them both is waiting and can't do anything because it arrivied late).

But I like the idea of "arrived first - something", or another arbitrary rule. Maybe give each race an initiative value and they fight based on this?


Another, similar--but more drastic--idea might be to decide that the accumulation of faster-than-light drives, shields and energy weapons outright destroys any further ships that jump in: the last party to the battle loses by default.
It would make coding AI routines a hell :) So the cure worse than the disease I suppose :D


your heuristics should assume that the player always fights in the first wave. This creates consistency for the player, and makes them understand that, ultimately, THEY are the bigger threat. It also minimizes the amount of enemies fighting one another when facing off these types of scenarios (which might result in an undeserved win for the player that fights off against scraps).
Yeah... With asymmetric gameplay the player could/should be special.


the fortified area fights no one - unless they choose to specifically attack one fleet, maybe?
A slight problem, my planets are quite agressive, they have system wide weapons and they attack passing by fleets (sort of defending the planets in the interior of the empire). So a planet should always attack by default (no choice).

Note: how about sightly different rules for space combat and ground combat? Like the planet attacks all fleets orbiting it, but on the ground it only defends passively?

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Yeah... With asymmetric gameplay the player could/should be special.

I've just realized your battles could last longer, which means the third (and possibly fourth) faction would stand there waiting while others shoot at one another in orbit of their base/fleet. Not very ideal.

Might want to apply that idea sequentially then:

Every round, player fights one opponent, than the other. The opponents would also get to fight one another given either wouldn't be dead.

Sequence:

Player vs AI 1 (strongest)

Player vs AI 2 (weakest)

AI 1 vs AI 2

(rinse and repeat on next round)

With more AIs

Player vs AI 1 (strongest)

Player vs AI 2 (middle...)

Player vs AI 3 (weakest)

AI 1 vs AI 2 (strongest against next strongest)

AI 1 vs AI 3

AI 2 vs AI 3

(rinse and repeat)

Scout parties should investigate crash landings.


Player vs AI 1 (strongest)
Player vs AI 2 (weakest)
AI 1 vs AI 2
Well... It should work... It would mean more than one battle per turn per planet (but that's OK I suppose), also there might be problems with "consumable" weapons (like missiles). But yeah overall it should work... (but if someone has a better idea I'm all ears)

I think I will also use a trick in the AI code. The compurer race will have a 50% chance to resign from the moving to a target planet if there is a battle going on there already (which also is logical and benefitial to that race most of the time). Should reduce the number of occurences like multiple battles.

But I also have another question. Let's say there is a ground combat in progress. Race A invaded the planet. Now, race B send transports with troops to that planet as well. Should race A try to shoot down the incoming transporters or let them land?

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You know, when we are not talking about Star Trek styled pleb science, the wars in space take a whole another shade. Space war is more like a gigantic stealth submarine skirmish campaign, only that there are hundreds of submarines on both sides. This would happen in reality and reality is kinda boring, but pleb science may insult anyone who knows even a little about science, but it is very awesome to watch. So there must be a compromise between entertaining pleb science and sweet realism.

For that you should develop a an event based engagement mechanic. Basically the entire battle is reduced to ticks. Ticks are instant events within the battle engagement where the honey is located. One event could be where your forces engage enemy head on in very close range. Another event could be a firefight of scouting spy ships. Another event could be an ambush. As far as events are concerned, the edge of the universe is your limit. Event is basically a single battle within a greater battle. After each single battle, forces retreat to plan their next move. The time between the ticks creates the impression that the the sides plan and do their positioning for the next battle during that.

You could also tie in more than two sides. Just take your two sided events and let them happen to any two sides of engagement. Enemy 1 vs Enemy 2. Enemy 1 vs Enemy 3. Enemy 3 vs Enemy 18. Etc. You can also write events that happen when when three sides are present.

This opens up the ability to issue war doctrines. Doctrines would make certain battle events more likely. If your empire is all about boarding, you could issue a boarding doctrine. Your troops would suffer less damage from boarding and the boarding event would happen more likely. Yet again, if player's enemy issued anti-boarding doctrine, player's specialization would be useless and player would have to change one's doctrine...or the player could just churn more cannon meat at the enemy.

This would also enable sides to retreat from battles. Of course this would make an opening for the escape events.

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