i keep buying games and they're not what i expected

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86 comments, last by Norman Barrows 7 years, 7 months ago

nobody seems to get it...

you don't want to sell games to people, you want people to subscribe to your games!


It's a big strech to suggest 'nobody' seems to get it. I'm from the MMO world, where people understand subscriptions. But a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush, and you need to sell your current game now, not your next one. When it takes you years to make them, that's the main concern.

not having to process returns? less bad press? no thinking "oh! we're rich!", only to discover that have to give a lot of it back?


Distributors process their returns. There wasn't much bad press, just whining in reviews. And the amount of money refunded (not given back - they won't have even seen it in their account, given how distributors work) is very small compared to the overall revenue.

demos can make use of a limited subset of assets. with the rest of the assets not included


You missed my point. It's a procedurally generated game. Most of the assets are in the code.

sounds like they just didn't make a good demo.


The original Deus Ex demo was bad. But that's an extreme outlier where the demo was bad but the game was great. Normally the gap in quality is much closer; and all the demo serves to do is turn off some potential buyers who were originally on the fence. The big companies have done the numbers on this and they're very sure about how it works.

It may well be different for a lesser-known game, where you need the publicity. But well-publicised games aren't in that position.

a solid reputation is critical to long term success in any industry.


In an ideal world, every game we ship is exactly what we wanted it to be; but that's not always possible. So some games will be a bit disappointing. Releasing demos won't make the end game any better, but it does make the developer more likely to go out of business. There might be some less disappointed players as a result, but I don't think that's a price worth paying.
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If so then hopefully you have more people that come around to liking your game than the ones that don't like it and are disgusted at having paid for it.

you don't want people to "come around to liking your game". that's a marginally qualified sales lead at best. of course if you've already taken their money, it doesn't matter then, unless you get the "no mans sky" type backlash.

The one that I heard was that you should sell services, not products.

that's for regular IT.

what you want is to be like Kubrick, or John Ford, or Cecil B Demille, or any big draw actor like Carry Grant or John Wayne. folks seek out your product due to your reputation.

half-life, warcarft. these products have a reputation for delivering a high quality gaming experience of a specific type. so folks are interested when bungee or blizzard makes a new game.

"sell services" is the valve and steam route. them that can - make games, them that can't - sell them. lot more money and a lot less risk than making games.

you have to remember that games are an art form, like film, books, music, etc. merchandising is the "sell services" way to make money on artworks. just look at Star Wars.

Norm Barrows

Rockland Software Productions

"Building PC games since 1989"

rocklandsoftware.net

PLAY CAVEMAN NOW!

http://rocklandsoftware.net/beta.php

The preferred modern day way to do this, over providing demos, appears to be to use videos of gameplay.

it does have certain advantages. possibly less work, you can showcase just what you want, nothing to hack.

but from a user perspective its still not quite the same as a real playable demo. think about it, we'd all probably rather have a demo than a video, or better yet, both a video, and a demo.

having a demo would probably help push fence sitters over to your side.

Norm Barrows

Rockland Software Productions

"Building PC games since 1989"

rocklandsoftware.net

PLAY CAVEMAN NOW!

http://rocklandsoftware.net/beta.php

You missed my point. It's a procedurally generated game. Most of the assets are in the code.

turn off the code. same idea as not including the 3d model file.

The big companies have done the numbers on this and they're very sure about how it works.

how it works - for them.

its really a difference of outlook on how one should conduct business. building long term relations, vs smash and grab. for big companies like EA, the're just in it for the money, not the art, they'd be just as happy making oven mits or taco sauce if it was as profitable. so they don't worry too much when folks say "EA = evilsauce!" as long as their earnings per share are ok. there are always other users, games, and dev studios to take advantage of. they just have to make sure they don't p*ss off the whole world at the same time.

Norm Barrows

Rockland Software Productions

"Building PC games since 1989"

rocklandsoftware.net

PLAY CAVEMAN NOW!

http://rocklandsoftware.net/beta.php

You missed my point. It's a procedurally generated game. Most of the assets are in the code.


turn off the code. same idea as not including the 3d model file.

That's not how procedural generation works.


The big companies have done the numbers on this and they're very sure about how it works.


how it works - for them.

its really a difference of outlook on how one should conduct business.

No, it's about measuring results. They know that demos lose them sales, and they know that there's nothing to be gained from being the company that consistently offers demos beyond positive comments from people like yourself. Disappointed customers won't be coming back anyway, whether it was the demo they disliked or the game.

This isn't just for the EAs of the world, it's for any professional developer of a reasonable size.

I already said that it can be different for smaller companies who need a way to get promotion, but that's a separate issue.

I already said that it can be different for smaller companies who need a way to get promotion, but that's a separate issue.

quite true. playable demos are an excellent "Guerrilla Marketing" tool. ; )

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guerrilla_marketing

i actually first heard that term used in some quote by Philippe Kahn of Borland

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philippe_Kahn

i stared with MS basic, then Borland pascal, then Borland C++, then Watcom C++, then MS C++. always was a big fan of Borland.

Norm Barrows

Rockland Software Productions

"Building PC games since 1989"

rocklandsoftware.net

PLAY CAVEMAN NOW!

http://rocklandsoftware.net/beta.php

You missed my point. It's a procedurally generated game. Most of the assets are in the code.

turn off the code. same idea as not including the 3d model file.
That's not how procedural generation works.

You could still turn off code for whole subsystems and still have a playable game demo though.

"This demo features only three types of planet and these types of lifeform. Want 100 planet variations and 50 lifeforms? Buy the full version of no persons space now!"

It can work, you'd just need to nerf the algorithms in the demo...
You could still turn off code for whole subsystems and still have a playable game demo though.

right now the demo for Caveman includes all mesh, model, and texture assets for all ~50 monster types in the game (i have yet to strip them out), but only initializes the stats for perhaps 3 types of monsters, and uses separate encounter tables that only include those monsters. so the assets are still in there for the moment, but the code to initialize and encounter the monster types is turned off.

the game also has two different routines for generating a game world map, one that generates a random 2500x2500 mile world, and a second one that generates a hard coded 100x100 mile island in a 2500x2500 mile ocean for the demo version. the demo version does not include the code to generate a full world. link time code generation rocks! turn off the high level code with a #ifdef, and all the low level stuff only used by that code automatically gets stripped out at link time. leaving nothing to hack, and no unused code to download.

Norm Barrows

Rockland Software Productions

"Building PC games since 1989"

rocklandsoftware.net

PLAY CAVEMAN NOW!

http://rocklandsoftware.net/beta.php

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