With hundreds of forums and blogs reviewing the death battle out come, I figure I post a thread about it too an point some stuff out too:

http://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/battles-7/gym-leader-challenge-sora-vs-link-1758106/

http://board8.wikia.com/wiki/Cloud_Strife_vs_Link_vs_Mario_vs_Samus_Aran_vs_Sephiroth_vs_Solid_Snake_2006




But it seems there are alot of people who disagree, and think cloud should have won. So do you think death battle should do a round 2 with both all their items like they did recently with their superman vs goku 2 and include more stuff?




Who do these two characters resemble?

Cloud resembles Captain america:


Cloud/Cap's similarities

- Both Have their powers from a super serum (mako energy)
- Fast
- Powerful
- Can jump real high

Link resembles Thor:


- Both have hammers (Link has megaton hammer)
- Like thors belt of strength (link has his power gloves)
- Both can call forth storms (song of storms and thunder medallion)
- Both can fly (Link fairy spell)
- Both can time travel (Hero of time/ocarina)

Along with alot of other things too that are similar. But the biggest thing that most people who supports cloud say is, cloud is ridiculously stronger. Physical strength and power go hand in hand, and dont necessarily mean the same thing, I have searched all of clouds, movies, mangas, games, spin offs and yet to see a cutt scene or it written down anywhere that he is above 1 ton, cutting falling concrete debris in advent children is powerful, but then again, humans have karate competitions breaking concrete blocks with their hands. If any one does find a strength feat, please post it.

So lets to a fast show case of links strength, I know these are just fictional things, but death battle did a interesting size comparison/estimation, and it seemed accurate:

This huge boulder (it weighs one ton) ended up being a table in an outdoor living area we’re currently creating in Pasadena…and we didn’t even know we needed a table in this space. -

http://www.pottedstore.com/tag/sunburst-decorative-rock/

What a 1,000 ton stone looks like:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1333403/Brute-force-Huge-1-000-ton-boulder-carried-mountainside-power-Icelandic-volcano.html

Links strength: Pushing/grabbing/throwing/pulling



- At base 10 tons (moves blocks and throws gorons)
- Titan mits 50 tons
- Power bracelet 100 tons
- Silver gauntlets 500 tons
- Golden gauntlets 1,000 tons (or strength to move mountains)
- Giants mask 20,000 tons (throws twinmold who is longer than godzilla)

Lifting ten tons over his head


four twelve year olds pushing 100 ton objects


Adult link pushing 100 tons with no enhancers


Kid link lifting a 100 tons over his head


Silver gauntlets pushing 500 tons


Golden gauntlets lifting and throwing 1,000 tons


Twinmold:



Punching/smashing/crushing/slicing



+ Experts ring makes links punches equivalent to a bomb
+ Toss ring doubles the gloves strength (thats two mountains)
+ Red ring doubles links sword power
+ Hammer and magical hammer busts boulders larger than link
+ The handy glove ups links power breaks blocks and busts through shields
+ Slices a metal 100 ton 8 armed monster to pieces

http://zeldawiki.org/Magic_Ring







So in comparing their strengths:

- Cloud = 1 tonner at best due to the mako enhancements
- Has no hand to hand or punching feats
- Has memories from zack, but was never in soldier
- Rely's solely on his sword with out it he has no feats

+ Link at base is 10-100 tonner, enhanced hes 500-1,000 tonner
+ Link has the experts ring which make his punches equal to a bomb
+ Has training from various teachers, from gorons/swordsmen/knights/
+ Fights 90% of average foes and bosses solos

So I think cloud might be out gunned in the physical strength department.

Its a shame technology and graphical power wasn't invented in zeldas prime years of its first creation out of the 2 bit era, heres some of the original art of link which showed back in his day he would have been seen similar to that of Kratos:

(Nintendo powers original concept art of link back in the late 80s)















Link might look tooney in wind waker, soft in spirit tracks, and a regular in skyward sword, but link in his prime years was a monster butcher'er like god of war in his 2 bit days of legend of zelda and links adventure.

Cloud doesnt seem all that durable, he is suspect to being cut open by what looks like a sword 7 feet long, but only about 2 inches in width:


Although impressive and powerful. The entire final fantasy cast actually isn't durable to the contact of swords, angeal gets put down by only a piece of a sword a foot long breaking ricocheting and cutting his arm:

- Sephiroth is imapaled, and killed by several sword slashes
- Aeirth is killed by being imapled by this same 2 inch thick sword
- Cloud is impaled by it
- Gensis is cut open by s weaker sword

Cloud was also rescued by Vincent valentine from nearly being killed. And cloud is actually not the strongest in his universe, in final fantasy tactics, his soldier class is weaker than the holy/dark knights, temple knights, arc knights, rune, ect and would lose in a 1 on 1 against agrias izlude, gafgarion, agrias, beowulf and killed 10/10 times by thunder god cid. If we go even further out to his multiverse of Final fantasy, cloud ranks much lower compared to Terra, squall, tidus ect.

Cloud also needs help from his team when Link goes into 100s of battles solo. While in links universe, he is the uncontested but still goes up against reality warpers like zant, the magician, majora, ganon ect.

So in the durability department, link is quite a bit better as well, he does afterall have almost every immunity just from his 50+ different rings to magical attacks like ice/fire/water/earth/ along with having the other rings which amplifys his attack power 10 folds, and increases his defensive durability another 10 folds:



So to where cloud is sort of only a one trick pony with his sword:


Link has quite the defensive power combo with his gear:


Cloud does have a variety of swords, but none really differ in enchantments, they just range by increasing his weapon strength or adds more slots for materia, links swords on the other hand have a massive range of purposes and mystical enhancements, from calling hundreds of life restoring faeries, to swords that kill phantoms and other undeadly beings, to razor sharp, super big, strength enhanced and even the power to split link into four separate foes to tag team his enemy:


Cloud carries around a set of different materia and a sword, to where link carries around an arsenal of weapons and defensive items in his reality size warping bag. Links super soldier mako poising movements, in jumping high and basic materia can be matched by links basic spells he knows as well:


Link has so much in his arsenal, he probably has more than bat man and iron man combined. So durability wise:


- Cloud gets cut sliced/impaled/bleeds by a 2 inch width sword
- Link never bled, has a shield and sword that can deflect and reflect magic

Both have capabilities of breathing under the water, link has the blue tunic and the zora ring, and cloud has a materia that allows him to breath under water, but is he any good under water? His swimming is novice at best, while links gear besides just protecting him, he has a vast variety of all weather/terrain gear, hes a good fighter on land and his zora armor makes him a under water ninja:



To even a water demon that has a impenetrable shield:


A white armor formed by the red ring which amps his defense:


A fire tunic to sheath against fiery temputures:


And walk through lava with his goron mask:


To a mirror shield that reflects magic back at his foes:




To a temporary indestructable armor:



So because of his massive defensive inventory:

- Has the advantage of in the water
- Has the advantage of wrestling him into lava
- In a hit for hit competition can absorb more damage
- Has better durability, endurance, recovery and stamina if hit
- Tank all his physical shots and magic with shields


So physical strength, and durability goes to link

Who do you all think will win?

Long range, I dont see cloud doing much damage, since his equipment is just a sword, he will have to rely on magic alone, which the only use of his materia is green materia:


http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Magic_Materia_(Final_Fantasy_VII)

Which the only offence he has with long range spells is, fire/ice/earth/lightning...all four which are not effecting link because of his holy rings which nullifys elemental base attacks, and will be reflected back to cloud by his spell reflect, or by the mirror shield. Ultima/gravity/commet, can all be guarded with the staff of byrna and somaria:


1 does a impenetrable shield around link, and the other makes a giant indestructible block of energy in which link can stand behind. The rest of the green materia are only recovery effects, and not offence long range attacks on link, in which links combos of defense, pretty much makes the little 8 spells of clouds useless. As for link, he has various long range methods of attack, he is an expert bow man:



Fire/ice/light/harpoon/silver/bombs:





Which the bomb arrows were basically medieval rocket launchers of its time, Link also has 3 medallions that cause lightning storms, fills an entire radius with bomb explosions, and earth quakes which also polymorphs:



Link has 4 other rods, the fire rod, ice rod, water rod and sand rod, with the power to control sand:




He could literally command sand and water to be rushed into any opening of clouds face, filling his body with so much sand/water that he implodes.

For mid range link has the boomerang, deku nuts for stunning, sling shot and hook shot for retrieving, getting to higher places, and offence. Toped in with dins fire along with all the rods, another mid range item he can use the ball and chain:



Along with several variations of wind/gust boomerangs, magical gust pots, and other gadgets of mid range weapons:
http://www.mtv.com/news/2019040/legend-zelda-items-ranked/

So it kinda shows that cloud with a few green orb materias and his only other weapon sword have no basis or mid to long range against link which is another disadvantage.

Its basically this:


vs

All of this:


Which means:

- Long range link has the advantage of killing cloud about 40 different ways
- Mid range link has the advantage of killing cloud in about 30 ways
- Close range link has the advantage being physically stronger/durable

But long range wise, cloud could technically use his green materia and heal him self with, cure/heal/recovery ect, but these take up alot of magic, even his ethers and elixirs will run out far before links arsenal does. Link too has recovery potions too if some miracle damage was inflected upon link, he needs but one ring, the heart ring:


Which as long as hes alive his health steadily restores, like a auto regen. If his magic runs low, link can always use the romanis magic milk, which gives link unlimited magic for 3 days, which I dought the fight will last longer than an hour. Unto the last of their spells, cloud has, haste/stop/slow/death...death never works on bosses and has less than 50% rate on enemies, his time magic last but only a turn or two, which are only temporary, and if not weak because they only can be casted close range and on 1-3 people at a time. Link has similar time magic or mystical powers, his ocarina is so powerful if he plays these ancient songs the time magic effects the entire world, from slowing it down, or speeding it up, useful in both maintaining cloud at a slower pace, or if cloud has heavy damage and is bleeding much like sephiroths fight, speeding up time can make cloud bleed out in a matter of seconds.

Again, clouds haste/slow ect is temporary in two ways, one being it last for only a moment, and secondly he can run out of magic. Links time or speed enhancing doesn't have this problem his bunny hood which doubles his speed and agility last as long as hes wearing it and doesn't consume magic:



Fast as cloud is as a bullet timer, link faces a foe name beamos in every game that shoots lasers, hence dodging laser beams would take alot more dexterity and agility


Along with the Pegasus boots x roc feather, rocs cape, jump spell and hoover boots link can be an aerial fighter like cloud is in advent children:

Pretty much the cape allows for much farther jumps and gliding, if matching clouds jumping movements wasnt enough, link can go one step further and fly using the fairy spell. So...

- Jumping, aerial fighting advantage goes to = Link
- Magic and mystical enchantments in recovery goes to = link
- Speed, agility and maneuverability goes to = link

Finally the summons, cloud has a variety of summons, but these things are actually killable in almost all final fanatsy games, kefka kills the espers in 6, in 7 cloud kills bahamut sin, 8 squall defeats ifrit and seifer kills odin, in 10 all the aeons are killable. Hence link can kill them with the right combo of defence and attack.

Ifrit wont do anything to the goron mask, as gorons live in valcanoes, walk through and tank lava, and get shot out of vulcans 100s of miles away and live under water. Since gorons are made of rock, ramuhs lightning has no effect on rock base attacks. So the goron would punch ifrit and ramuh to death much like he punches boulders to nothingness.

Goron >>> Ifrit and ramuh

Same with leviathan, the zoras mask could swim right through its tidal wave and then kill leveithan with its impenetrable shock aura.

Zora >>> Leviathan

The three bahanmuts, regular bahamut, zero and nero, would all attack at once 3 beams to the mirror shield and the mirror shield will focus a much stronger attack of it back at them, killing them all in one counter attack.

Mirror shield >>> 3 Bahanmuts

Shiva and Titan will be burned to death as both ice and earth is weak to fire.

Fire rod/dins-fire/bombo-medallion >>> Shiva/Titan

The chocobo summon can be countered with calling both epona and the giant owl, a horses kick is much more effective than a birds peck...and the owl will be distracting the moogle at the same time.

Epona > Chocobo

Alexander can be killed with the giants mask, and megaton hammer, alexander is basically a castle that shoots beams, gaint link will be demolishing this castle to rubble.

Giants mask >>> Alexander

The one shotters, odin and hades, odin was killed by siefer without even moving, link can kill him with any of his holy swords and link is protected by death from various light defense, byrna is a mystical light Light>> dark/evil, he also has the cross and light arrows to kill either or.

Light arrows/byrna/cross >>> Odin/hades

And for clouds rest if he wants to call all his summons at once, link can summon as well, the four giants, who are so large they can jump over a mountain in one leap, something not even godzilla can do. They are so strong they can hold up a moon for several hours.



They would kick around clouds summons like foot balls. The heaviest hitter in FF7 is the knights of the round, legend sin the making...but that still falls short of links fierce deity's mask, which a deity is a god, and

A male deity is a god
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deity

fierce
firs/
adjective
having or displaying an intense or ferocious aggressiveness.
"as women, we need to accept that we can be fierce, cunning, and predatory"
synonyms: ferocious, savage, vicious, aggressive More
(of a feeling, emotion, or action) showing a heartfelt and powerful intensity.
"he kissed her with a fierce, demanding passion"
synonyms: aggressive, cutthroat, competitive; More
(of the weather or temperature) powerful and destructive in extent or intensity.
"fierce storms lashed the country"
synonyms: powerful, strong, violent, forceful; More

Link is a fierce god.
https://www.google.com/search?q=fierce+deity+link+cuts+the+moon+in+half&biw=1270&bih=625&source=lnms&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjP2fKp2v3MAhXBLmMKHZgJDjcQ_AUIBSgA&dpr=1#q=fierce

Who fierce deity link pretty much takes out every boss in majors mask in two shakes, and kills majora a reality warper like nothing. His powers all over zelda history is near planet buster.

- Links summons vs Clouds summons Winner = Link

- Cloud = 1 tonner at best due to the mako enhancements

This is combat, not a weight-lifting contest.

- Has no hand to hand or punching feats

In FF7 he does play some boxing minigames.

- Has memories from zack, but was never in soldier

He's a genetically created super-soldier using Sephiroth's genes.

- Rely's solely on his sword with out it he has no feats

...and he can shoot lightning, not to mention summon dragons from space.

Cloud would curb-stomp Link.

+ Link at base is 10-100 tonner, enhanced hes 500-1,000 tonner

Which is of no use against lightning.

+ Link has the experts ring which make his punches equal to a bomb

Great. Lightning.

+ Has training from various teachers, from gorons/swordsmen/knights/

And a single Cloud-based Omnislash would be too hard and too quick for Link to block.

+ Fights 90% of average foes and bosses solos

That's only because there's hardly any competent allies in Hyrule. Link only seems impressive because Hyrule is filled with a bunch of weaklings who are scared of Deku Scrubs and hand over the entire kingdom whenever a clown-haired court-jestor like Gannondorf begins playing his organ and laughing maniacally.

Even then, Link is so bad at killing bosses, that he's had to fight the same people over and over.

So I think cloud might be out gunned in the physical strength department.

To quote an ancient Greek papyrus, "Those who depend on on muscles alone are unused to facing spiky-haired super-soldiers riding six-winged space dragons."

Two further statements:

1) I actually like Link better, but comparing the two in combat doesn't make sense. I put my money on the mako-wielder.

2) You signed up just to post this?

- Cloud = 1 tonner at best due to the mako enhancements

This is combat, not a weight-lifting contest.

I understand that, but one has power (Cloud) and one has power...and...strength..(Link)

Could you show an extension of clouds destructive power to match this?

Lets compare destructive power:

Punching boulders to bits:





Blow up 1,000 ton stone walls just as big as the debris cloud is cutting with bomb arrows:


Slicing a building sized stone to pieces with his sword:


Physical strength, throwing a a 20,000 ton monster:



Fierce diety killing twin mold:

- Has no hand to hand or punching feats

In FF7 he does play some boxing minigames.

Which he usually gets punched more times than he lands anything, also lacks any power and strength as he hits them more than several times, links punching power can put cloud down in one punch.

- Has memories from zack, but was never in soldier

He's a genetically created super-soldier using Sephiroth's genes.

Yet but an all powerful being with no feats, is still a being with no feats. Cloud is not sephiroth nor has been shown doing the things sephiroth can do.

Half of clouds life as a kid he was in an orphanage:

Half of links young life he was already killing 100 ton monsters

Young link has a record of killing at-least 30 different bosses and hundreds of random battles before cloud even picks up a sword.

- Rely's solely on his sword with out it he has no feats

...and he can shoot lightning, not to mention summon dragons from space.

This comes from clouds materia, canonically he doesnt use it, but since this is composite link, its only fair to let him use all of it...which cloud still loses because all of them are close range base. Unlike link who can kill cloud from a 100 feet out. And the summons can be killed, bahamut is killed by cloud. Dont see how cloud is carrying around alot of his items either, canonically cloud has no item shrinking device, he cant even carry all the materia in the movie, yufi has to carry them in a large chest. So cloud wont have accesses to any of his eithers, elixirs, and hero drinks to restore his magic. Link has all his stuff because his old school version showed how he kept his inventory in a size reality warping bag:

Hence link can have over a hundred items in his small bag, 2 foot bows, 3 foot shields, bombs, swords or anything.

Cloud would curb-stomp Link.

+ Link at base is 10-100 tonner, enhanced hes 500-1,000 tonner

Which is of no use against lightning

.+ Link has the experts ring which make his punches equal to a bomb

Great. Lightning.

Curbstomp would need a hefty amount of advantages to say the least, link can kill cloud over a 100 different ways having a hundred different things in his arsenal, cloud can only kill link several different ways aside from his sword. And lightning? Link has holy rings that absorbs lightning, and a mirror shield that can bounce it back, and a goron which is rock element that can nullify it, and a much more powerful lightning medallion that covers a farther radius.

Plus link could just dodge it, cloud is portrayed fast by dodging bullets, but link dodges arrows, plasma, lightning and lasers.

Aghanim and Yuga shoot lightning at link which he dodges and in every game the enemy beamos shoots lasers at him which link dodges. Lasers are as fast as light, light is the speed in any form and is constant. Cloud hasnt that much speed, probably a little faster than the fastest human, but most of his movements are agility and dexterity based, which allows him or atleast zack to dodge bullets and bullet time.

Link without the bunny hood is still around 30 mph at full speed and jumps 30 feet in the air:

The roc's feather make link jump 3x the nromal distance:

The jump spell can make link jump 3x as high:

Slap on the pegasus boots, roc feather, roc cape for gliding and jump spell, and you can triple those base stats.

http://zelda.wikia.com/wiki/Roc's_Cape

So link is now able to keep up with the superhuman movements of cloud. One could argue cloud is slightly the farther jumper, but link has the fairy spell which allows him to fly, in game you can fly over 100's of feet worth over lava:

So no matter what terrain, link can travel any distance or height. unlike cloud who is limited to height, he couldnt even jump high enough to each bahamut sin, the team had to catapult him up.

+ Has training from various teachers, from gorons/swordsmen/knights/

And a single Cloud-based Omnislash would be too hard and too quick for Link to block.

A omnislash is just cloud focusing all his speed and agility into a consecutive attack of repetitive blows, nayrus love, staff of byrna, magic armor, and the hylian shield all can deflect it. Link has a similar move, the tri force slash. Unlike clouds move where the person isnt really paralyzed, links move makes the opponent unmovable:

http://www.ssbwiki.com/Triforce_Slash

+ Fights 90% of average foes and bosses solos

That's only because there's hardly any competent allies in Hyrule. Link only seems impressive because Hyrule is filled with a bunch of weaklings who are scared of Deku Scrubs and hand over the entire kingdom whenever a clown-haired court-jestor like Gannondorf begins playing his organ and laughing maniacally.

Even then, Link is so bad at killing bosses, that he's had to fight the same people over and over.

I'm pretty sure some of links allies would give cloud a run for his money, like gorons:

- Darunia a ten ton goron who can smash and tunnule through mountains thick rock

- Impa a super assassin

- Midna a reality warper

- Zelda a power house wizard and ninja

Its not so much that they are weak, its villains like zant, majora, ganandorf and others are either reality warpers or deity's and demi gods who cant be killed unless they have specific weapons of holy stature to defeat them, if you dont have kryptonite, red sun or magic, theres almost no other way your gona beat superman. Unlike FF7 bosses, who if they are just continually attacked they can be killed with no divine like weapons needed, via sephiroth is killed by just one ordinary sword combo landing on him, genesis gets almost put down by a piece of a sword brushing against him, zack gets killed by a large platoon.

I'm pretty sure its a fact most games differ in bosses and enemies:

http://zelda.wikia.com/wiki/Boss

Link fights mostly all of them solo, if he wasn't good at it, he would not have triumphed, if cloud didn't have his allies he would have not a have triumphed, Vincent valentine is proof of that.

So I think cloud might be out gunned in the physical strength department.

To quote an ancient Greek papyrus, "Those who depend on on muscles alone are unused to facing spiky-haired super-soldiers riding six-winged space dragons."

Nice quote, but link has:

- The muscle (10-100 ton without any enhancements moving blocks in every carnation)

- The brains (tactical fighter constantly looking for his enimies weaknesses)

- The will power (tri-force of courage)

- The arsenal (over a 100 useful things in combat)

- The variety (can kill cloud better in more places than land, via in lava, under water, in the sky ect)

- Has the experience and skill ( was actually trained and defeated bosses solo more often)

Two further statements:

1) I actually like Link better, but comparing the two in combat doesn't make sense. I put my money on the mako-wielder.

2) You signed up just to post this?

1.) Take away the mako, and take away all links arsenal, and link is still vastly stronger and has wits, I back the hyrulian farm boy with crazy strength.

2.) Liked reading of the game creativity here and thought it could be spruced up with one more cool thread.

- Cloud = 1 tonner at best due to the mako enhancements

This is combat, not a weight-lifting contest.

- Has no hand to hand or punching feats

In FF7 he does play some boxing minigames.

- Has memories from zack, but was never in soldier

He's a genetically created super-soldier using Sephiroth's genes.

- Rely's solely on his sword with out it he has no feats

...and he can shoot lightning, not to mention summon dragons from space.

Cloud would curb-stomp Link.

+ Link at base is 10-100 tonner, enhanced hes 500-1,000 tonner

Which is of no use against lightning.

+ Link has the experts ring which make his punches equal to a bomb

Great. Lightning.

+ Has training from various teachers, from gorons/swordsmen/knights/

And a single Cloud-based Omnislash would be too hard and too quick for Link to block.

+ Fights 90% of average foes and bosses solos

That's only because there's hardly any competent allies in Hyrule. Link only seems impressive because Hyrule is filled with a bunch of weaklings who are scared of Deku Scrubs and hand over the entire kingdom whenever a clown-haired court-jestor like Gannondorf begins playing his organ and laughing maniacally.

Even then, Link is so bad at killing bosses, that he's had to fight the same people over and over.

So I think cloud might be out gunned in the physical strength department.

To quote an ancient Greek papyrus, "Those who depend on on muscles alone are unused to facing spiky-haired super-soldiers riding six-winged space dragons."

Two further statements:

1) I actually like Link better, but comparing the two in combat doesn't make sense. I put my money on the mako-wielder.

2) You signed up just to post this?

If I could give you a +1, I totally would.

Lets compare Apples and Oranges, because WHY THE HELL NOT? Next, Teletubbies vs Kratos. Teletubbies win, because they have never been defeated in their TV Shows!

@ Smoooth:

You signed up just to post this?

- Cloud = 1 tonner at best due to the mako enhancements

This is combat, not a weight-lifting contest.

- Has no hand to hand or punching feats

In FF7 he does play some boxing minigames.

- Has memories from zack, but was never in soldier

He's a genetically created super-soldier using Sephiroth's genes.

- Rely's solely on his sword with out it he has no feats

...and he can shoot lightning, not to mention summon dragons from space.

Cloud would curb-stomp Link.

+ Link at base is 10-100 tonner, enhanced hes 500-1,000 tonner

Which is of no use against lightning.

+ Link has the experts ring which make his punches equal to a bomb

Great. Lightning.

+ Has training from various teachers, from gorons/swordsmen/knights/

And a single Cloud-based Omnislash would be too hard and too quick for Link to block.

+ Fights 90% of average foes and bosses solos

That's only because there's hardly any competent allies in Hyrule. Link only seems impressive because Hyrule is filled with a bunch of weaklings who are scared of Deku Scrubs and hand over the entire kingdom whenever a clown-haired court-jestor like Gannondorf begins playing his organ and laughing maniacally.

Even then, Link is so bad at killing bosses, that he's had to fight the same people over and over.

So I think cloud might be out gunned in the physical strength department.

To quote an ancient Greek papyrus, "Those who depend on on muscles alone are unused to facing spiky-haired super-soldiers riding six-winged space dragons."

Two further statements:

1) I actually like Link better, but comparing the two in combat doesn't make sense. I put my money on the mako-wielder.

2) You signed up just to post this?

If I could give you a +1, I totally would.

Lets compare Apples and Oranges, because WHY THE HELL NOT? Next, Teletubbies vs Kratos. Teletubbies win, because they have never been defeated in their TV Shows!

@ Smoooth:

You signed up just to post this?

So one has to lose to be comparable? Nah, was just surfin through and felt like being a part of it, you know...if you check the lounge, theres some 100's of threads made that went unanswered or no replys, perhaps you could spruce all of there threads up as well and ask them why did they post there...surely it will aid their questions in a categorize section called... the lounge...but if it bothers you that much, you can ask the mods to shut it down. Wouldnt bother me...what I find interesting is, the other poster ended with a note of...

comparing the two in combat doesn't make sense. I put my money on the mako-wielder.

How does that work? You cant compare them, yet you wanna state one is superior to the other? That to me doesn't make sense, it just sounds as if the one you want to win, doesn't really have a argument in how it supersedes the one you want him to win against.

So one has to lose to be comparable? Nah, was just surfin through and felt like being a part of it, you know...if you check the lounge, theres some 100's of threads made that went unanswered or no replys, perhaps you could spruce all of there threads up as well and ask them why did they post there...surely it will aid their questions in a categorize section called... the lounge...but if it bothers you that much, you can ask the mods to shut it down. Wouldnt bother me...what I find interesting is, the other poster ended with a note of...

Na, but if you start comparing characters from different universes, following different "laws of physics" or "magic systems", using sometimes utility gear as an indicator of combat power (never seen link smash any enemy in link to the past with his super gloves, how do we know it is even usable in combat?), we get into an "everything goes zone" that makes silly statements like mine... well, less silly.

Fact still stands that the telletubbies never lost to an opponent in open combat (and I guess not many people on this forum would have been able to stand to watch the mindboggling stupid tubbies long enough to find an episode that proves me wrong (probably one of the tubbies got beaten by a squirrel in one of them :))).

If you want a less silly, and more to the point comparison that shows how pointless this whole thing is:

A Jedi vs Indiana Jones. Jedi uses normal Jedi gear, so only lightsaber as weapon. Fight start at a distance. Fight is on earth...

Indiana wins (given his trusty revolver does not fail him).

If we shorten the distance, and take away Indis revolver, it is more of a fight. Still quite open.

Reason:

Lightsaber doesn't work without Star Wars physics. That is not how light works in the real world. The Force doesn't work in this universe. The Star Wars technical explanations retconned into the universe tried to explain the weird physics in the movies by stating "its a different universe"... which makes the star wars laser blasters more awesome if used in this universe (the light-"bolts" are now travelling at the speed of light), but most other things non-working.

So all the Jedi is left with is his fists and physical abilities (if you discount using that useless lightsaber as a short club...). Indie has his revolver and a whip which work just fine on earth.

You can add to that the fact that Indie is the main hero of its movies, and thus cannot loose unless the script says so, and cannot die, while there are many Jedis that get thrown under the bus with every movie, the Jedi has lost by default anyway as long as he is not one of the main characters. Even then, Darth Vader got killed, Obiwan got killed, many other main characters die in Star Wars.

But this is now getting as far fetched as using the force or weird-physics driven tech on earth. Lets just say 6 bullets and a whip will beat some non-force-enhanced martial art tricks and a disfunctional lightsaber grip.

Now, that is totally silly. Given how Jedis are portrayed in THEIR universe, they should beat Indie everyday. But by transferring heros into the real world (what you did with your strength measurements), a lot of these story related powerlevels get messed up.

Given how Link is just an average guy in at least the Zelda Games I played, just with more guts than the average citizen, as well as some magical gimmicks, and Cloud is portrayed as some kind of enhanced supersoldier, who just gets overshadowed by even more ridicolously powerful beings running around in his universe, I'd say servants post is quite accurate with declaring cloud the winner.

Different universes follow different laws of physics. If a guy can lift 100 tonnes in one, and nobody bats an eye (because your average dude lifts 50 tonnes without problems), and a guy lifts 0.5 tonnes in a universe with a more realistic physics outfit, the guy lifting the 0.5 tonnes would clearly be stronger COMPARED TO THEIR UNIVERSES AVERAGE, because the average dude would struggle lifting 0.1 tonnes.

What happens when you throw them together? Which universes rules are now active? Do they mix? How? How do characters function under a different universes rules?

I think most people responding where not offended at all by your posting... just as astonished as me how long a post you made about such a subject. :)

comparing the two in combat doesn't make sense. I put my money on the mako-wielder.

How does that work? You cant compare them, yet you wanna state one is superior to the other? That to me doesn't make sense, it just sounds as if the one you want to win, doesn't really have a argument in how it supersedes the one you want him to win against.

You look at all Link's strengths, and none of his faults, all Cloud's faults, and none of his strengths.

For example, you claim:
A) Cloud doesn't get to benefit from Zack's useful military memories, because you say so.
B) Cloud DOES get to suffer from Zack's wasted childhood memories, because you say so.
(The scene where Cloud is sitting as a kid talking to Tiffa - that's Zack's childhood memories with Cloud inserting himself retroactively, IIRC - I might be mistaken, though)

I didn't say one was "superior" to the other (as mentioned, I like Link more), I said it doesn't make much sense to compare them because they are incredibly different, from entirely different game worlds, and different worlds of fiction have extremely different . Games are balanced within themselves, but not balanced between each other. So it's fun to think about, but nothing you can make a real argument out of.

Never the less, I always place the bet on the magic-user, because I prefer magi-warriors myself. As Cloud, I could kick Link's butt. But that's not saying anything, because as Link, I could kick Cloud's butt. But I'd prefer to play Cloud in that matchup, 'cause magic, which Link only has a few magic-abilities. Any comparison between the two is entirely subjective.

comparing the two in combat doesn't make sense. I put my money on the mako-wielder.

How does that work? You cant compare them, yet you wanna state one is superior to the other? That to me doesn't make sense, it just sounds as if the one you want to win, doesn't really have a argument in how it supersedes the one you want him to win against.

You look at all Link's strengths, and none of his faults, all Cloud's faults, and none of his strengths.

I did point out his strengths, he can cut debris, he also can endure alot of punishment before going down. Fast in movement ect. But soo that as enoug to beat someone who has more advantages.

For example, you claim:
A) Cloud doesn't get to benefit from Zack's useful military memories, because you say so.
B) Cloud DOES get to suffer from Zack's wasted childhood memories, because you say so.
(The scene where Cloud is sitting as a kid talking to Tiffa - that's Zack's childhood memories with Cloud inserting himself retroactively, IIRC - I might be mistaken, though)

Memories is one thing, experience is another.

I didn't say one was "superior" to the other (as mentioned, I like Link more), I said it doesn't make much sense to compare them because they are incredibly different, from entirely different game worlds, and different worlds of fiction have extremely different . Games are balanced within themselves, but not balanced between each other. So it's fun to think about, but nothing you can make a real argument out of.

Never the less, I always place the bet on the magic-user, because I prefer magi-warriors myself. As Cloud, I could kick Link's butt. But that's not saying anything, because as Link, I could kick Cloud's butt. But I'd prefer to play Cloud in that matchup, 'cause magic, which Link only has a few magic-abilities. Any comparison between the two is entirely subjective.

The magic is useless in clouds case, because link has various combos of defensive artillery that nullifies almost 90% of his magic, and link has his own magic which cloud is not immune to.