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#21 kiki443   Members   -  Reputation: 137

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Posted 14 July 2016 - 08:33 AM

now when we solved a copyright problem at least I think that we are so once again thank you for helping me.

 

And now I want to know more about trademark law because you said that I need to know because they can sue me if I disrespect the trademark law but make sure that I did everything about copyright.

 

So trademark Is just another problem to solve.

so what is the exact difference between trademark and copyright or is it the same?

And what trademark involves, so that I make sure I dont disrespect that law and I didn't offend game companies at all.

 

And I still want to base a movie on my idea.

What should I do with that idea?



#22 Kylotan   Moderators   -  Reputation: 3756

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Posted 14 July 2016 - 09:15 AM

The short version of trademark law is: don't use any names or titles or logos or distinctive marks of anything that is already used, unless it's a generic term or you're using it in a completely different industry.

#23 kiki443   Members   -  Reputation: 137

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Posted 14 July 2016 - 09:26 AM

That is not my intention as I said I wont use anything

#24 kiki443   Members   -  Reputation: 137

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Posted 14 July 2016 - 11:00 AM

One more thing lets say that my idea is already used, as far as I know its not.
But if it is used somewhere (i dont know in another movie or book or game) and I didnt know about that movie or book or etc. And than I used my idea for my movie can they sue me even if I didnt know anything about them or their movie or book?

#25 frob   Moderators   -  Reputation: 38993

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Posted 14 July 2016 - 11:35 AM

That is not my intention as I said I wont use anything


You don't have to use the elements directly, even indirect use is enough to get in trouble for various forms of IP infringement.

In the opening post of the discussion you wrote:

I have recently come to an idea that I make movie based on video game.


Because it is based on another product many IP laws apply that say you need permission. No matter how loose the connection is, if you admit it is based on another product then yours is a derivative.

There is a more difficult area, where you claim you didn't know about the other stuff or didn't base your work on theirs, then the other group has to convince a judge that you really did. But that doesn't apply here. You readily admit in your first post that you want to make a derivative work. Therefore, you need permission.

Games Workshop is not going to give you permission to work with their brand without a truckload of money and some ironclad contracts. That brand represents most of their company value, they protect it vigorously.

Check out my book, Game Development with Unity, aimed at beginners who want to build fun games fast.

Also check out my personal website at bryanwagstaff.com, where I occasionally write about assorted stuff.


#26 kiki443   Members   -  Reputation: 137

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Posted 14 July 2016 - 11:55 AM

I see that they wont give me permission because i have no much money.

so I may forget about my Idea and movie based on it.

But my last question has nothing to do with my first opening question.

So lets forgett previus answers.

 

I just want to know if I may came to Idea that  accidentally crosses someones else work and I didnt know that I accidentlly break the law because I didn't even know about that work.

 

One more thing lets say that my idea is already used, as far as I know its not. But if it is used somewhere (i dont know in another movie or book or game) and I didnt know about that movie or book or etc. And than I used my idea for my movie can they sue me even if I didnt know anything about them or their movie or book?


#27 Josh Petrie   Moderators   -  Reputation: 10309

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Posted 14 July 2016 - 12:04 PM

I just want to know if I may came to Idea that  accidentally crosses someones else work and I didnt know that I accidentlly break the law because I didn't even know about that work.

 

You are still liable for infringement of the intellectual property. Ignorance isn't protection from the law. 

 

Chances are you'll get a cease-and-desist or some other form of contact from the IP holder of a property you have infringed upon (accidentally or otherwise) before they actually take you to court. At that point you can address the violation (removing the offending aspects of your project or cancelling your project), try to negotiate a deal, or ignore them and continue the violation. But you've been made aware of your violation so continuing to do so puts you right back in the same position as if you knew about it beforehand. In fact it may make it worse.



#28 kiki443   Members   -  Reputation: 137

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Posted 14 July 2016 - 12:39 PM

So they will warn me before taking me to court. That is Ok because I can remove my project peacefully.

 

And that way I know that I am jeopardizing someones IP.

 

I thought that before making anything I would have to read every single existing book and watch every single existing movie.

 

thanks



#29 Josh Petrie   Moderators   -  Reputation: 10309

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Posted 14 July 2016 - 12:45 PM

So they will warn me before taking me to court.
 

 

I mean in theory they could directly sue you, but they probably wouldn't as it is unlikely to benefit them.

 

That is Ok because I can remove my project peacefully.

 

 

Consider what this means, though. It means the project is dead, gone, and over. It's not an issue of "removing the project" from somewhere and putting it back up somewhere else and getting another free pass in terms of another C&D. C&D means cease and desist. If enough of your project is tangled up in infringing IP that you can't just remove the infringing parts, you have just wasted all that time and effort on that project. I'm not sure you're really thinking about how damaging and demoralizing that can be



#30 kiki443   Members   -  Reputation: 137

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Posted 14 July 2016 - 12:54 PM

I know that once the project is gone every effort and all invested money is lost and that is damaging.

 

so that means before making anything I should spend few years of reading books and watching movies just to make sure that no one used simillar Idea before?



#31 Josh Petrie   Moderators   -  Reputation: 10309

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Posted 14 July 2016 - 01:54 PM

No, not years. There's a difference between wasting years and years consuming "all" media to make sure you don't infringe on anything and doing a little bit of due diligence in the area you're going to be working, running trademark searches, and so on. And certainly a big difference between any of that and willfully going in to a project knowing some aspect of it may be infringing.

 

The whole thing has a lot of subjectivity to it. Don't intentional use somebody else's stuff, create your own things, and you'll probably be okay.



#32 kiki443   Members   -  Reputation: 137

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Posted 16 July 2016 - 03:41 AM

what if I admit that the movie is derivative work

so in the opening text or in credits I write "this movie is based on warhammer 40k story"

does this mean any difference? I mean can this sentence change anything for example if they sue me can this lower the charges or if I ask permission can this lower the price of licence?, or is it the same ike I didn't write anything?



#33 Josh Petrie   Moderators   -  Reputation: 10309

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Posted 16 July 2016 - 08:56 AM

Yes, that changes things. It demonstrates you were aware of what you were doing, so it makes things worse for you. It provides zero legal protection and only underscores the crime.

#34 kiki443   Members   -  Reputation: 137

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Posted 16 July 2016 - 09:03 AM

ok but if I offer to Games workshop this, can I get the licence without spending a lot of money?



#35 Josh Petrie   Moderators   -  Reputation: 10309

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Posted 16 July 2016 - 11:30 AM

I don't represent them, so I can't say. 

 

Chances are that it doesn't matter to them and they'll still want you to enter into a license agreement, which will involve payment and restrictions on what you can and cannot do with the story and depiction. 



#36 frob   Moderators   -  Reputation: 38993

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Posted 16 July 2016 - 12:14 PM

It seems you are only considering this from your position, the position of a fan of their work.

Consider it from their position.

They have invested all of their careers, their lives, they have built this brand. It started as nothing, it started as ideas that they had, and they invested everything to turn it in to a successful brand. Now that they have built a successful product, a full world of creative growth, other people are coming in and forcing them to change their own stories. Fans write their own fan fictions, and soon more and more people accept it as part of the world. Even when the product's creators and owners didn't want to go that direction, those external works force a direction. Fans may cry "tell more of this", or "make it more like this book", forcing the product's creators to change the ideas they were working on.

At the highest risk those fan-created works can completely destroy the company. A badly-timed fan release immediately before a product launch can sour the launch, or make the world less receptive to the products. Fan-created works can ruin a story line or a product idea that has been planned for years. Fan created works have the potential to increase the product's value, but they also compete with the product and have the potential to destroy much of the value. Fan-created products are dangerous.

Most big brands will quietly ignore the tiny fan fictions and small fan products that stay within the fan community because as long as they are small they are mostly a positive influence, increasing brand awareness and keeping the fans active among themselves. They are never fully acknowledged or made legitimate, because someday a fan-created product may do something that goes against the product creators plans. The fan's works may someday become popular in their own right and grow beyond the fan community. The fan's works may start to eclipse the real product, the fan's work may take away value from the original work. And when that happens the product owners need to step in and say: "No. You cannot do that. This is our product, our ideas, our worlds, our creations. You cannot have them."

If you approach them as a fan, telling them that you are going to make a product using their product lines, you are presenting yourself as a threat. They will shut that down. Such fan-created products threaten to destroy what the product owners have invested their lives to create. The product owners (correctly) see it as a huge risk to their very core with practically nothing to gain from permitting it to grow.

However, when businesses approach as a business opportunity to help build and expand on their products and product lines, there is a chance the company will listen. They will probably shut the proposal down and say "no", but there is a chance they will listen, perhaps finding a way to work it in with their plans, and perhaps eventually say "yes". The more power or creative control granted to the product owners the more likely a deal can be struck. Normally this includes a truckload of money and a contract that says the product owners get final say on all creative aspects, they get a say in all marketing, in all branding, and in all other uses of their product. In exchange, the other company can build around the product to make their own money while supporting and building up the brand.

The people over at Games Workshop have invested roughly 30 years turning their ideas into an enormously valuable product line. They have turned their ideas into a product with a brand equity in the hundreds of millions of dollars, perhaps a brand equity reaching to billions of dollars. (Note that brand equity is very different than a company's cash value or stock price.) There is no way they are trusting this incredibly valuable brand to someone unless that someone brings something of incredible value back.

Check out my book, Game Development with Unity, aimed at beginners who want to build fun games fast.

Also check out my personal website at bryanwagstaff.com, where I occasionally write about assorted stuff.


#37 kiki443   Members   -  Reputation: 137

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Posted 17 July 2016 - 09:53 AM

so nothing without money .



#38 kiki443   Members   -  Reputation: 137

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Posted 17 July 2016 - 10:01 AM

I gues than I will have to create my own races names planets and movie

 

 

thanks for help once again!



#39 Tom Sloper   Moderators   -  Reputation: 14488

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Posted 17 July 2016 - 12:36 PM

I gues than I will have to create my own races names planets and movie


Yes! The light dawns! :)
-- Tom Sloper
Sloperama Productions
Making games fun and getting them done.
www.sloperama.com

Please do not PM me. My email address is easy to find, but note that I do not give private advice.

#40 JohnnyCode   Members   -  Reputation: 1020

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Posted Yesterday, 03:22 PM

In the movie one of allien races will be called Orcs. Is that right because as far as I know there is dozens of movies and games that use orcs as their race name and they are all almost the same.

 

Literaly, if you use something very exclusive of something you got inspired by, it is trouble, but, if you use something that is not exclusive to the forgery, you are all set at the very basic sense totaly.

 

Orcs are not exclusive, even Ogres are not exclusive (to Tolkien, etc). But as it has been mentioned, Klingons are exclusive subject, originaly defined and described in Star Trek series.

 

If some of situations and happenings get similiar to some other happenings and situations, this is out of question too I'd very strongly assure- there is no patent for being hit, stolen from, or blowen the monastery from :)

 

You should explore the exclusivity of things you wish to have. But in general, 100+ years existence of a thing, means it is not copyrighted or authorized, wheather it is Davinci's Michelangelo, or the Basilic of St. Peter, etc., (though catholic church may get uncomfortable by some iritating usage, but since we are not in any fundamental society, it'd be imposible to persecute you in any legal manner)







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