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#41   Members   

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Posted 24 July 2016 - 05:02 AM

OK the question I am about to ask has  nothing to do with copyright or trademark but I wont create another topic for that question.

 

I am still making a project (movie), as I said I will create my own movie however I am concerned about something.

 

what about real personal names, so for my movie I need actors and I need names, what if I accidentally use already existing name, I mean someones name can He/She do something against me?



#42   Moderators   

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Posted 24 July 2016 - 07:31 AM

what about real personal names, so for my movie I need actors and I need names, what if I accidentally use already existing name, I mean someones name can He/She do something against me?


It's unlikely that anyone would sue you for defamation or whatever if you used a name that coincidentally
was his or her name, especially if the character in your movie bears no resemblance to the individual and
doesn't have the same job or characteristics as the individual. If you created an evil rapist character,
depicted him as fat and freckled, and named him Gill Bates, it's unlikely that Bill Gates would think you
had chose to use his name, thinly disguised. But if you created a character who headed a software mega-
lopoly and then went into philanthropy, depicted him as nerdy with glasses, and named him Gill Bates, then
Bill Gates would think you had created the character after him. He might not sue you for that, unless you
then made your character an evil rapist multibillionaire.

If you created a character named Tom Sloper, no matter what your character did, I'd assume you did it
intentionally, because my name is not that common and we have had this conversation, so I know you are
aware of my existence. Would I sue you for that? I don't know - depends on a lot of things.

I'm going on too far afield with this question. In general, you can make up random names in safety, since
there are so many people with similar names and it's unlikely that someone could prove malicious intent
on your part in using the name.

I am not a lawyer, and this is not legal advice.

Edited by Tom Sloper, 24 July 2016 - 07:33 AM.

-- Tom Sloper
Sloperama Productions
Making games fun and getting them done.
www.sloperama.com

Please do not PM me. My email address is easy to find, but note that I do not give private advice.

#43   Members   

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Posted 28 July 2016 - 03:56 AM

So I may use names that are same as someone's real name.

 

But what about company names and different other names like using name microsoft or etc.

or using an agency names like CIA or FBI or even NASA for my movie becouse there will be some CIA agents.

 

so my question is do I need permission from them to use that names (can I use agencyes like FBI without FBI's permission)?



#44   Moderators   

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Posted 28 July 2016 - 08:33 AM

So I may use names that are same as someone's real name.

 

You may not use a specific "someone", but you may use an arbitrary "someone".

 

When the Jack Ryan character was created there were likely people in the world with that name, but it wasn't anyone in particular.

 

When the Jason Bourne character was created, when the Homer Simpson character was created, when the James Kirk character was created, there were likely people in the world with those names but it wasn't anyone in particular.

 

BUT.... If you name your character Jack Ryan, or Jason Bourne, or Homer Simpson, those names now ARE someone in particular, so you're likely to get in trouble with them if you use them.

If you open up a book of names, or an (archaic) phone book and use that to pick a first name and last name that sound good together, that's fine.  But if you pick an existing famous name you are asking for a lawsuit.

 

But what about company names and different other names like using name microsoft or etc.
 

 

No. Company names are trademarks and their names are owned by the companies.  You need permission from the company or you are asking for a lawsuit.

 

or using an agency names like CIA or FBI or even NASA for my movie becouse there will be some CIA agents

Get approval before using their names, logos, buildings, or any other distinctive elements, or be prepared for a lawsuit. 

 

do I need permission from them to use that names (can I use agencyes like FBI without FBI's permission)?

 

YES.

 

If you did not imagine it into existence you need permission to use it.  

 

The concept really shouldn't be that difficult to grasp.  You need permission to use EVERYTHING that  you did not create yourself.  

 

For movies that includes permissions for the furniture, wall hangings, even the distinctive clothing.  If you pay attention to TV and movie characters an extremely high number of them wear generic clothing with no logos, no distinctive stitching patterns on pants pockets, no logos on shirts, and typically plain color clothing. They generally need permission for the buildings they incorporate, creators of any distinctive landscapes. They've got standing licenses to record and publish the pictures of vehicles.  EVERYTHING NEEDS PERMISSION.

 

In games this means making items that are unique to the game. Games either license real-world vehicles or make their own designs for general boxes-on-wheels. Games either license real-world weapons or make their own designs for handheld tube-shaped bullet-throwers. Games either license real-world uniforms and armor or make their own designs for character costumes.  

License it or make up something new and distinctive.  This is true for all things.  

It shouldn't be a difficult concept to grasp, and is normally taught starting with toddlers and earliest childhood:  If it is not yours you need permission to use it.


Check out my book, Game Development with Unity, aimed at beginners who want to build fun games fast.

Also check out my personal website at bryanwagstaff.com, where I occasionally write about assorted stuff.


#45   Members   

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Posted 28 July 2016 - 03:35 PM

No. Company names are trademarks and their names are owned by the companies. You need permission from the company or you are asking for a lawsuit. kiki443, on 28 Jul 2016 - 11:56 AM, said: or using an agency names like CIA or FBI or even NASA for my movie becouse there will be some CIA agents Get approval before using their names, logos, buildings, or any other distinctive elements, or be prepared for a lawsuit.

I am not sure, FBI, CIA are public subjects, I think something too different from Microsoft. There is no single representative to demand damage from a usage of those in manner of copyright or authorship.

 

So I may use names that are same as someone's real name.

 

Just honestly look into yourself before you do, and if you agree of no violations inside yourself, of your own personal justice, use it without hasitation.



#46   Moderators   

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Posted 28 July 2016 - 04:07 PM

I am not sure, FBI, CIA are public subjects, I think something too different from Microsoft. There is no single representative to demand damage from a usage of those in manner of copyright or authorship.

 

 

Just because the FBI is a government organization does not mean they or their intellectual property are public domain. The use of the seals and names of the FBI and CIA are very tightly controlled by US federal law (see the CIA Act of 1949 for one such example). The FBI actively polices unauthorized commercial use of its name.


Edited by Josh Petrie, 28 July 2016 - 04:07 PM.


#47   Members   

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Posted 28 July 2016 - 05:23 PM

Just because the FBI is a government organization does not mean they or their intellectual property are public domain. The use of the seals and names of the FBI and CIA are very tightly controlled by US federal law (see the CIA Act of 1949 for one such example). The FBI actively polices unauthorized commercial use of its name.

 

It is not possible to violate their usage from copyright-authorship manner.

Yes, you can get yourself a confirmed ultimate punishment for treason, or, any other! Again, no authorship and copyright damage to be ever claimed. You can get jailed for missusage, or, even ultimately punished. No copyright/authorship claim in this though...


Edited by JohnnyCode, 28 July 2016 - 05:34 PM.


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Posted 28 July 2016 - 05:49 PM

I have been Taught that western law is based on rights, not on ordinances.

If it is based on ordinances, you are right, and following movies must have been simply exclusively pardoned:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_House_Down

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Force_One_(film)

 

If we omit privilaged ordinance usage, since the public subjects were the protagonists in the movies, there are also piles of cheap movies where subjects belonging to public were mere antagonists.

 

Were they privileged too, or is this a basic precedental law to use them in fiction?

Do you realy insist on copyright claim from public?

 

If those forgeries damaged the public, by usage of subjects that belong to the public, then yes, you could persecute the creators. But thaty has nothing to do with authorship of those public subjects.


Edited by JohnnyCode, 28 July 2016 - 05:53 PM.


#49   Moderators   

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Posted 28 July 2016 - 10:40 PM

The companies get permission to use them. That permission is not free. This also applies to government organizations, including the FBI.

A quick search on Google should show you how back in 2010 the FBI sued Wikipedia for unauthorized use of their logo. Wikipedia did the legally-required thing and obtained permission to use the logo.

TV and movie studios still need to get permission to use their trademarks, even from federal agencies. A few seconds on Google shows you need to contact the office of the director of the FBI for licensing information. Permission is easy to get for a funded production, I believe they operate on FRAND terms so they allow any production that wants it for a relatively small fee. Standard forms, some lawyer signatures, and a checkbook are all you need.

Check out my book, Game Development with Unity, aimed at beginners who want to build fun games fast.

Also check out my personal website at bryanwagstaff.com, where I occasionally write about assorted stuff.


#50   Members   

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Posted 30 July 2016 - 06:11 AM

The companies get permission to use them. That permission is not free. This also applies to government organizations, including the FBI

Becouse it takes their time to confirm the usage, and inspect the intended usage definition.

 

I understand you cannot put FBI logo on a car, cannot put Sheriff logo on your web page, cannot put a "Department of Agriculture" on some badge of yours even in words.

Again, this has nothing to do with authorship infrigement, but a protection of executive symbols against missusage and - even display. 

 

Any usage of those must be confirmed, and for movies or games it is easier, since an intent to abuse observers of those symbols is clearly too unexistant.

 

The trouble extent is uncomparable between a copyright violation, and an executive symbol missusage, it is more serious than falsificating a legal document.

 

I will quote myself now

It is not possible to violate their usage from copyright-authorship manner.


#51   Moderators   

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Posted 30 July 2016 - 11:25 AM

It is not possible to violate their usage from copyright-authorship manner.

 

 

It absolutely is possible.  I'm not sure why you keep saying that, as global treaties have made copyright and trademark laws uniform across nearly all the globe.

 

If you made a slightly modified version of their logo then your logo is derived from theirs and similar to theirs. Distributing the derivative logo would violate copyright laws.  Using the derivative logo in a product would violate trademark laws. You must either have permission to use it or face the possibility of lawsuit.


Check out my book, Game Development with Unity, aimed at beginners who want to build fun games fast.

Also check out my personal website at bryanwagstaff.com, where I occasionally write about assorted stuff.


#52   Members   

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Posted 30 July 2016 - 12:07 PM

It absolutely is possible. I'm not sure why you keep saying that, as global treaties have made copyright and trademark laws uniform across nearly all the globe.

 

Maybe this confusion I and you have, stems from fact, that yes, all those symbols and graphics are well defined, protected, and identifiable, while being even more protected from derivatives than other commercial TMs.

 

But that is not due to someone's authoring right over them, and violation of the usage does not fall under copyright infriguing being investiagted and punished.



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Posted 30 July 2016 - 02:15 PM

But that is not due to someone's authoring right over them, and violation of the usage does not fall under copyright infriguing being investiagted and punished.

 

I'm curious where you are getting your information from.  It certainly is not from things like the modern WIPO Copyright Treaty, the TRIPS treaty, or even the Berne Copyright Convention that has been in place since the 1880s. 

 

Authors' Rights are precisely how the protections are granted.  The author (or creator) of a work is automatically granted a list of primary rights over the thing they have created.  One of those rights is the right to create and distribute derivative works.


Check out my book, Game Development with Unity, aimed at beginners who want to build fun games fast.

Also check out my personal website at bryanwagstaff.com, where I occasionally write about assorted stuff.


#54   Members   

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Posted 30 July 2016 - 05:18 PM

The author (or creator) of a work is automatically granted a list of primary rights over the thing they have created.

Possible creators of those (assets of facting products) have been employed by the public body- and since that- the creations belong to the public body.

 

And those creations are controled by appointed authority (by public) to control them ever since (with restrictions still, crossing too far by manager appointed still).

 

I am just trying to have appointed the diference and reasoning behind their usage or display, not based upon the authorship- that may have resulted in a serious crime if proven intentional.

 

Please frob , save me, I am no more responding.



#55   Moderators   

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Posted 30 July 2016 - 07:06 PM

But that is not due to someone's authoring right over them, and violation of the usage does not fall under copyright infriguing being investiagted and punished.


I agree that copyright is not necessarily the form of IP involved (insofar as FBI and CIA are concerned).
-- Tom Sloper
Sloperama Productions
Making games fun and getting them done.
www.sloperama.com

Please do not PM me. My email address is easy to find, but note that I do not give private advice.

#56   Members   

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Posted 31 July 2016 - 12:35 AM

BUT.... If you name your character Jack Ryan, or Jason Bourne, or Homer Simpson, those names now ARE someone in particular, so you're likely to get in trouble with them if you use them

 

ok I didn't intended to do that.

I know that if I use already created characters from another stories I will be sued for copyright or trademark.

 

If you open up a book of names, or an (archaic) phone book and use that to pick a first name and last name that sound good together, that's fine. But if you pick an existing famous name you are asking for a lawsuit.

 

I have intended to use that method to pick random name and random surname from somewhere and than combine them together, but of course I wont pick famous name.

 

No. Company names are trademarks and their names are owned by the companies. You need permission from the company or you are asking for a lawsuit.

 

just as I thought, company names, logos, etc. are part of the trademark rights and therefore I need permission.

 

YES. If you did not imagine it into existence you need permission to use it. The concept really shouldn't be that difficult to grasp. You need permission to use EVERYTHING that you did not create yourself. For movies that includes permissions for the furniture, wall hangings, even the distinctive clothing. If you pay attention to TV and movie characters an extremely high number of them wear generic clothing with no logos, no distinctive stitching patterns on pants pockets, no logos on shirts, and typically plain color clothing. They generally need permission for the buildings they incorporate, creators of any distinctive landscapes. They've got standing licenses to record and publish the pictures of vehicles. EVERYTHING NEEDS PERMISSION. In games this means making items that are unique to the game. Games either license real-world vehicles or make their own designs for general boxes-on-wheels. Games either license real-world weapons or make their own designs for handheld tube-shaped bullet-throwers. Games either license real-world uniforms and armor or make their own designs for character costumes. License it or make up something new and distinctive. This is true for all things. It shouldn't be a difficult concept to grasp, and is normally taught starting with toddlers and earliest childhood: If it is not yours you need permission to use it.

 

so that means that I have to obtain permission even for recording my movie in particular city?

 

Get approval before using their names, logos, buildings, or any other distinctive elements, or be prepared for a lawsuit.

 

ok I dont know if I will use their buildings or logos.

what I meant is that I want to use the word FBI or CIA 

becouse there will be some CIA agents.
  so do I need permission for using the word CIA?

#57   Moderators   

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Posted 31 July 2016 - 07:49 AM

1. so that means that I have to obtain permission even for recording my movie in particular city?
2. so do I need permission for using the word CIA?


1. Yes. It's called a filming permit.
2. I don't know. How are you planning to use it? How are you portraying the CIA? In your story, is the CIA "the good guys" or are they "agents of Satan"? What's your movie's budget? Not much, I guess, since you can't afford to consult a lawyer for one hour...
-- Tom Sloper
Sloperama Productions
Making games fun and getting them done.
www.sloperama.com

Please do not PM me. My email address is easy to find, but note that I do not give private advice.

#58   Members   

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Posted 01 August 2016 - 09:16 PM

so do I need permission for using the word CIA?

If you want to use genuine executive symbols/references of U.S public institutions ...yes :)

 

Have your entire set-up involving it very ready and defined/described.

 

Get redy to pay 3 month sallary of a single person at least to do so, +, add up some other compensation since it will have to occupy even some higher competent person time.

 

40 000 dolars is not too much- movies/games are all welcome.



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Posted 01 August 2016 - 09:31 PM

For examle, "Taking of Pelham 123" had to use none of federal institutions agreements, but the Major of N.Y. City.

Super movie, watch it! A movie Travolta was eager to shoot. since Travolta is a spoiled actor.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KcMGwXM0n2w



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Posted 04 August 2016 - 05:44 AM

This question is for Tom Sloper.

 

when I asked my first question you give me a link to http://www.sloperama.com/advice/faq61.htm

 

I read this "I'm not a lawyer, but I've been in the game industry a long time" so you can answer me to the following question.

 

I am not asking for a legal advice just for short explanation.

 

Sorry that I didn't ask this earlier.

 

recently I read a few EULA documents from some games and other programs and movies.

under copyright information I found something like this: c copyright limited 2004-2008. or copyright limited 2006. or something like that.

 

I am asking you this since you have been in a game industry so you should be familliar with this "limited copyright"

 

can you help me understend this better because as far as I understand it the copyright has expired in 2006 or so.

therefore I can maybe use something without perrmission (or not).

 

however I just asking A short explanation what is this mean when its say LIMITED COPYRIGHT.






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