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#1 I-Shaolin   Members   -  Reputation: 138

Posted 21 January 2000 - 01:17 PM

Why is there so much animosity here? Recently, I posted a response in one of the topics. I was trying to be helpful, but truthful, and before I knew it, I was being cussed at like I was the walking incarnation of evil. I have no malice toward ANYONE here at GameDev. I try to answer every topic in the forom that I feel I can be helpful on, because I wish to help, nothing more. Yet, it seems that if you don''t tell someone exactly what they want to hear, you are somehow insulting them. Since I know this sounds vague, I will explain. There was a post on the difficulty on getting into the game industry. I mentioned that in today''s world, you can''t expect to get a job with a professional game company if you haven''t fully developed as a programmer. I continued by mentioning that I had spent years developing myself as a programmer and a game programmer. I worked for a degree in CS, I worked with a company developing Windows software for three years, and throughout it all, I have constantly tried to refine my understanding of game programming and theory. For me, this work has been fruitful, and I believe that this is the type of disipline and dedication it takes to get a job in the game industry today. The game industry is no longer the hackers world it used to be. There is too much money involved for most companies to hire an individual who has no proven abilities. If you don''t have previous professional experience, then you are going to have to shine to get into the industry, becuase the compitition for the entry level jobs is fiercer than ever. The point I was trying to make is that if you truly want to get into the industry, then don''t disillusion yourself. It''s going to take years of work, and if you''re not willing to do it, then someone else will. Yet, all I recieved after that post was spite and hatefulness. I could have just said that anyone can walk into the industry with little ablility, or I could have just ignored the post and let the people who are willing to put in the work wander aimlessly around with no one giving them the proper direction. I love game programming. I have loved games and the idea of making games since I was a child. I learned early on that it was going to take this kind of dedication to get into the industry. I had the will, and I had the direction. It paid off for me, and I want everyone who loves game programming as much as I do to have this same chance. I don''t feel that I did anything wrong here. I was just trying to help people who I thought would appriciate the help. I guess I was wrong.

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#2 Vlarr   Members   -  Reputation: 122

Posted 21 January 2000 - 02:22 PM

Shaolin,

I read your original post and I found absolutly nothing wrong with it. When I read it though I could see it was going to gather some mixed emotions. I guess because its human nature to fear wisdom spoken from someone who has actually been there and is telling it like it is. I''m just starting towards a career in game development and no where in your message did I feel like I couldn''t achieve that. I still have a hell of a long road ahead of me but at least I know I''m on the right path. I think if what you said doesn''t apply to a group or such then they shouldn''t be offended. I''ll probably get flamed too now

But the truth is the truth. The thing is, I started out the wrong way. Pretty much the way you pointed out was wrong. I actually was one of those people that started out thinking I could code a game with the limited knowledge of programming I had. (And boy, was I wrong)

Fact is I wish someone would have come along and told me what you stated earlier. It might have saved me a year of pulling my hair out.


~Vlarr
Vlarr@hotmail.com
ICQ # 50607306


#3 Delisk   Members   -  Reputation: 122

Posted 21 January 2000 - 02:32 PM

I belive tham most pepoles who are hard toward pepoles who tell them it is hard to get in the game industry, do it because they want to get in with-out an hard work.

I belive than these pepoles are a bit lazy...or lived in their dreams, and they don''t like when we tell them to get down to earth!

#4 I-Shaolin   Members   -  Reputation: 138

Posted 21 January 2000 - 02:41 PM

Vlarr,

Thanks for responding. I''m glad someone here read what I wrote for what it was intended. Good luck.

There''s a myth about getting into the game industry that''s just not true. If you really want to program games and you are willing to put the work it takes, you can get in. Hell, there''s a shortage of programmer''s as we speak. Obviously, you couldn''t just walk up to Microsoft and start working on Windows if you can barely program C, so why would it be any different to program games?

If you really want to get into professional game programming and you are willing to develop yourself into a professional quality programmer, then you can get it. It''s really that simple.

#5 deadlinegrunt   Members   -  Reputation: 123

Posted 21 January 2000 - 05:31 PM

I-Shaolin, I would have to agree with you completely. All of the talented people I collaborate with do share the same common denominator that you have pointed out as far as how they began and eventually became, myself included.


quote:
If you really want to get into >insert aspiration here< and you are willing to develop yourself into a >insert aspiration here<, then you can get it. It''s really that simple.


Just to get the wheels spinning for anyone else who reads this. The guy gave some good advice, don''t bitch about it, use it.

--another bit pusher
( sorry about rippin'' your quote )

#6 Facehat   Members   -  Reputation: 696

Posted 22 January 2000 - 03:23 AM

I think the key, as Delisk pointed out, is that these people don''t like the fact that they will have to work hard and learn new things. Giving them a reality check is almost as bad as insulting them, because, either way, they will take offense. I guess all I can say is that the if you enjoy programing then learning as much about it as you can is fun. One of the things I enjoy doing most is not just programming games, but also just firing up the compiler and testing out some new theory or technology i''ve learned.

--TheGoop

#7 Dave Astle   Senior Staff   -  Reputation: 2307

Posted 24 January 2000 - 03:15 AM

Hey, I wanted to mention that I read your post as well, and I thought you were spot-on. I''ve said similar things myself many times.

Based on my experience on this and other forums, I think that the responses you got were motivated more by people wanting to get noticed than any particluar animosity toward you. Whenever someone makes a statement that is even slightly controversial, people tend to respond quite emphatically with their opinions. I wouldn''t take what was said too seriously, especially because from what I saw, those opnions weren''t based on real-world experience.

#8 mason   Members   -  Reputation: 128

Posted 24 January 2000 - 12:27 PM

Agreed with what everyone else has said.

I thought I-Shaolin''s post was very good.

Only fools disregard advice from people who''ve been there, done that. The rest of us listen closely.



Mason McCuskey
Spin Studios - home of Quaternion, 2000 GDC Indie Games Fest Finalist!
www.spin-studios.com

#9 Gorky   Members   -  Reputation: 122

Posted 24 January 2000 - 12:45 PM

You shouldn''t pay too much attention to the flamer''s.

You''re one of the most knowledgeable poster''s. There are a lot of people that listen to you.

I do have to ask, "how do you find the time to respond to so many of the posts?"


#10 Stoffel   Members   -  Reputation: 250

Posted 24 January 2000 - 12:51 PM

Hm, well, I didn''t want to bring this up, I-Shaolin, but it''s indirectly my fault. You see... I am the walking incarnation of evil. Somebody must have confused you for me.

Sorry.

#11 LackOfKnack   Members   -  Reputation: 122

Posted 24 January 2000 - 12:54 PM

I agree with everything said here so far, except for one thing:

quote:
Original post by I-Shaolin
...you couldn''t just walk up to Microsoft and start working on Windows if you can barely program C...



... are you sure about that? Sometimes, though, it seems as though that was how it was made...




Lack

#12 msn12b   Members   -  Reputation: 390

Posted 24 January 2000 - 01:01 PM

Re: Getting a job at Micro$oft

DISCLAIMER: The opinions expressed here are my own and should in no way be misconstrued as those of my employer.

To be perfectly honest, if you have the skill to work at Micro$oft, advanced knowledge of a particular language is not an absolute requirement. I.e. if you have natural talent and can demonstrate an ability to learn quickly and effectively, you can get a job with minimal knowledge of any particular language here. However, for the work we do, it''s difficult to learn the issues that arise from application development without intermediate to advanced knowledge of C/C++.

Having said that, don''t expect to get a job here just because you think you''re a kick-ass coder.

MSN

#13 I-Shaolin   Members   -  Reputation: 138

Posted 24 January 2000 - 01:24 PM

To respond to Gorky''s question...

I do have to ask, "how do you find the time to respond to so many of the posts?"

Well, this is a perfect example of insomnia coupled with some free time. I really enjoy posted responses here. It''s nice to be able to help, and it''s also a good way to keep your skills up. After all, the best way to learn something is to teach it.

Sadly, I don''t know how long I''ll be able to keep up this pace. I recently started a new job, and that will soon consume most if not all of my time. I don''t plan to leave the forum however. I just may not be able to be as active in at as I have been.




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