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## RPG Games For Girls!!!

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Posted 04 December 2001 - 11:18 AM

I suppose I''m obligated to reply to this, seeing as how Mooglez has pointed a big neon arrow at me. *chuckle*

Hmm, how to attack this topic...

1) Girls are not that different from guys, really! We are certainly not incomprehensible - If I can understand both girls and guys, you should be able to to, with a little study of gendered fiction and sociology of gender roles and stuff.

2) Girls are a little different from guys, and the differences are fairly predictable. Girls are raised to think they are socially obligated to be pretty/stylish/fashionable, while all humans are naturally creative, this tends to be discouraged in boys. Female creativity is what all you poor guys would have had you not grown up in a gender-stereotyping society that treats women as more ornamental than men. To answer the question of how many hairstyles/clothes/etc would satisfy a girl, I think if you had a thousand possibilities (for all the categories together) that would be sufficient. Mush more practical to design into an MM game than a singleplayer, but any game can use a color selector to let the player customize things.

3) Girls tend to be more extroverted (people oriented) then boys, I''m not sure whether this is nature or nurture. So girls like games where NPCs have strong and dramatic personalities, and the player is asked to make choices that have social value, like dialogue choices. Japanese ren''ai games are the place to look for examples of this.

4) Girls are taught that some of the worst thing you can be are callous, indiscriminately violent, unfeeling, etc. This is one reason girls tend to react poorly to games where the player must slaughter monsters or aliens, or games where there are scream sfx and blood splatters. There''s also the fact that monster battles are really boring because they have no social or artistic element at all, and very little strategic element.

5) Girls are taught to be mothers. What do mothers do? They fix problems and injuries, give gifts, provide comfort and advice, create various things (meals, clothes), arrange things (laying out a garden, interior decorating). Look to Harvest Moon and Microsoft Bob, as well as most adventure and pattern/puzzle games for ideas about things like this.

6) The one demonstrable way that girls are naturally different from guys is their taste in people''s appearances. Get a female artist to design some of your characters. Look at one of the characters so popular with women that many have written fanfics about him: Sephiroth from FF7. Women generally like bishounens (pretty boys), sparkly things, fluffy things, slinky things (e.g. a siamese cat), and dramatic color displays (e.g. a peacock). Women also seem to be more sensitive to fractal-type things than men - examples are feathers, flowers or just petals, lightning bugs, clouds, ripples in water, spiral patterns like in a seashell or a DNA, the rainbows an oil spill makes. Shoujo anime is the area to study to learn about this.

7) It is not true that girls are completely non-violent. Girls can find violence appealing if it is individualized, romanticized, poetic justice, or creative revenge with an element of humor involved.

Did I miss anything?

### #22GalaxyQuest  Members

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Posted 04 December 2001 - 11:40 AM

First, i gotta say some of you sound like 13 year old BOYS with the pink and fluffy nonsense.

The STAR TREK series often had worlds where only women ruled, also, Buck Rogers had many roles where women where the leaders, such as that HOT N SEXY brown haired queen in the huge space ship (queen amadala??), along with planets where the women where in control and the men were the sissy's.

MMRPG's include female roles to play, such as in everquest and others. They make kick ass wizards or whatever. Although, I havnt seen much attempt to bring them together. There are a lot of female characters in everquest, at least in character!

Maybe to bring the women together, introduce women leaders(such as a queen for the empire as NPCs), where to be a royal guard, you must first be a women, then secondly an expert in protection(spells, melee, etc). Men also protect the queen. Just take a look at history.

Another idea, as I mentioned, is to define a planet, a guild, or a region of territory, where the women can begin playin there characters TOGETHER. Hopefully, this would spawn more women, in game, and out, to play.

But yes, it hasnt been done correctly, probably because most, if not all, developers and project managers and corporate  is run by men who havnt thought about the other half and what to do with them.

Edited by - GalaxyQuest on December 4, 2001 6:42:16 PM

Edited by - GalaxyQuest on December 4, 2001 6:43:55 PM

### #23MSW  Members

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Posted 04 December 2001 - 01:16 PM

Question: From a female perspective, what role would female players like to play in an singleplayer RPG?...I don''t meen a typical D&D type midevil fantasy basied RPG...but a RPG that takes place in a more current setting...

here is a idea for a RPG:

Imagine a singleplayer RPG that takes place in Chicago around 1923-24...Players control a young female school teacher...in a time when women had recently been granted the right to vote...in a time when Jazz was king and silent movies only cost a penny to watch...lots of interesting story, charactor and setting potential.

The young students in the players class would..in a way...represent the players ''stats''...the better the students are doing the higher the related stat...thins would allow for some ''side quest'' elements...like "why is Timmy doing so poorly?" and the such...allowing players to express some of thier mothering insticts...

Then add in the larger setting where America is just starting to come to grips with how women fit into society as the industrial age is in full swing...again lots of potential

### #24Drizzt DoUrden  Members

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Posted 04 December 2001 - 01:43 PM

quote:
I suppose I''m obligated to reply to this, seeing as how Mooglez has pointed a big neon arrow at me. *chuckle*

Hmm, how to attack this topic...

1) Girls are not that different from guys, really! We are certainly not incomprehensible - If I can understand both girls and guys, you should be able to to, with a little study of gendered fiction and sociology of gender roles and stuff.

I agree that understanding the other gender should not be hard, but I guess for some people it just is. Those who believe it is too hard to understand usually are those who are unwilling to understand it.

quote:

2) Girls are a little different from guys, and the differences are fairly predictable. Girls are raised to think they are socially obligated to be pretty/stylish/fashionable, while all humans are naturally creative, this tends to be discouraged in boys. Female creativity is what all you poor guys would have had you not grown up in a gender-stereotyping society that treats women as more ornamental than men. To answer the question of how many hairstyles/clothes/etc would satisfy a girl, I think if you had a thousand possibilities (for all the categories together) that would be sufficient. Mush more practical to design into an MM game than a singleplayer, but any game can use a color selector to let the player customize things.

Is that hinting that you like Baldurs Gate''s character creation ability Are you giving away the secrets of what makes games that females enjoy!? lol.

quote:

3) Girls tend to be more extroverted (people oriented) then boys, I''m not sure whether this is nature or nurture. So girls like games where NPCs have strong and dramatic personalities, and the player is asked to make choices that have social value, like dialogue choices. Japanese ren''ai games are the place to look for examples of this.

I like games where NPC''s have "strong and dramatic" personalities, and I am sure other guys do, too. I don''t think this can be limited to females.

quote:

4) Girls are taught that some of the worst thing you can be are callous, indiscriminately violent, unfeeling, etc. This is one reason girls tend to react poorly to games where the player must slaughter monsters or aliens, or games where there are scream sfx and blood splatters. There''s also the fact that monster battles are really boring because they have no social or artistic element at all, and very little strategic element.

This also can not be limited to females. I hate games like Rainbow Six and Counter Strike, or other games the promote terrorism, etc. I do, however, like to kill Orc and Ogre''s and Ogrillons. So I don''t know

quote:

5) Girls are taught to be mothers. What do mothers do? They fix problems and injuries, give gifts, provide comfort and advice, create various things (meals, clothes), arrange things (laying out a garden, interior decorating). Look to Harvest Moon and Microsoft Bob, as well as most adventure and pattern/puzzle games for ideas about things like this.

Guys are taught to be fathers. Watch football, work, drink beer, order their wife and kids to do things for them, etc. Every once in a while a boy will break out of that fatherly teachings and become something more.

quote:

6) The one demonstrable way that girls are naturally different from guys is their taste in people''s appearances. Get a female artist to design some of your characters. Look at one of the characters so popular with women that many have written fanfics about him: Sephiroth from FF7. Women generally like bishounens (pretty boys), sparkly things, fluffy things, slinky things (e.g. a siamese cat), and dramatic color displays (e.g. a peacock). Women also seem to be more sensitive to fractal-type things than men - examples are feathers, flowers or just petals, lightning bugs, clouds, ripples in water, spiral patterns like in a seashell or a DNA, the rainbows an oil spill makes. Shoujo anime is the area to study to learn about this.

??? Are you saying that I am a girl because I like clouds, and Sephiroth from Final Fantasy 7 I mean, these things are just more stereotypes of what these guys think girls are. I guess it is just because all the girl-friends (like friends that are girls, don''t get the two confused ) I have like everything I like, and do most of the things I do. (The ones who I am not friends with wake up at 3 A.M. to put on the makeup needed for school at 7).

quote:

7) It is not true that girls are completely non-violent. Girls can find violence appealing if it is individualized, romanticized, poetic justice, or creative revenge with an element of humor involved.

Did I miss anything?

See thats more like it. What you said in the beginning: "Girls are not that much different than boys, really!" was enough. There are too many different types of personalities, and so many different types of people, noone can really say what is different.

Some people do, some people don''t.

That statement is as general as it gets.

Everyone should note that that statement doesn''t say:

"Some girls do, some girls don''t." or "Some guys do, some guys don''t."

It says people. People are general.

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Posted 04 December 2001 - 02:37 PM

quote:
Original post by MSW

Question: From a female perspective, what role would female players like to play in an singleplayer RPG?...I don''t meen a typical D&D type midevil fantasy basied RPG...but a RPG that takes place in a more current setting...

Hmm... A school teacher could work. If it''s the ''20s... how about the costume designer for a club with showgirls. The costume designer acts as a mom to the girls, and defends them from the boss and customers, and manages gangsters so they don''t destroy the club...

Drizzt - I was trying to convey the idea of a statistical difference between males and females, you know, when there''s a curve representing males and a curve representing females and the 2 overlap by 70% but you can still tell that the mean, median, and mode are all further to the right for one gender than the other.

### #26Eight  Members

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Posted 04 December 2001 - 08:53 PM

quote:
Original post by digitaldirt
Not at all. But that is the attitude of a "guy" developer. They are ignorant of the famale audience in games, as they are in relationships i suppose. who knows...

I think there is a lot you can do, without resulting to "Pink" and "My Little Pony".

Sorry, was being sarcastic to highlight that the age old sexist views are still hanging around (Mary Kate & Ashley games for a start).

I don''t think the female''s lack of interest in games has anything to do with the content. Rather, society has told them (and all of us) that computer games are for little boys. Time is changing that for everyone as they become more mass-market anyway.

E

### #27Hase  Members

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Posted 04 December 2001 - 09:26 PM

I think a lot of you are still going about this from the wrong angle. You´re trying to guess at what girls want, and then create that.

1) It´s not about the main character, or the representation of that character. Male players have no problem playing female characters and vice versa.

2) It´s not only about catering to the "female skills" (at least this is what it sounds like when you describe them), the things female players go for are usally things which male players can enjoy just as much.
To create a good game you don´t have to go out of your way to include the mothering instinct or whatevery you consider to be a typically female trait.
Similarly, attacking the "female pride", as eng3d describes it won´t work. If you print on your box "GUYS ONLY", the potential female customers will think something along the lines of "what do i care" and pass it by. As chance has it, most products in our society which are labelled "guys only", are usually interesting to or primarily bought by guys alone.

3) I think the games girls are traditionally bad at have been stated pretty correctly above, but that distinction is NOT due to some inherent difference between men and women (someone suggested motor control, i think that´s bs, no offense intended), but because these games (2D platformers, FPSs, RPGs and martial arts games / beat ´em ups) are games which are the least attractive to the casual gamer, which women in nine out of ten cases are.
In order to be good at Quake Deathmatch you have to have a lot of 3d experience, quick reflexes and lots of practise. In order to be able to play a beat ´em up well you have to know a lot of moves.
Its not that women CANT be good at those games, I think they don´t want to, because they usually lack the background in those genres which equals the fact that they lack the training, which in turn makes those games too hard. The same thing goes for games with a high degree of realism (especially management sims), these (as the others mentioned) are hard to get into, and require a lot of time to be learned properly.
On a personal note: I´ve had a lot of fun playing games like SoulCalibur and Tekken with girls, but it only works when you pick up the game together (=start at more or less the same point of the learning curve), or find some way to bridge the skill gap.

For those of you who are really interested: THere is already a lot of literature in the field of media studies / gender studies, so it might be a good idea to pick some of those up at the local university library.

### #28digitaldirt  Members

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Posted 04 December 2001 - 10:40 PM

The whole naked women ruling the planet while the men are sissies, show girls, buck rogers and so on. are guy ideas or possibly fantasies. i don't know. but yeah, someone said it right when they said "you guys sound like a bunch of 13 year old boys".

I brought this subject up, and I thank the ones who have replied with thoughtful responses, instead of ignorant "i don't undersand them." remarks. Its very interesting to see how the online game community see's the opposite side of things. I've been holding study groups with women of different ages, with presentations and content brainstorms, and so far i've held 32 groups of 16 women. From my studies, Women don't want to "see what little timmy is doing".. they want more worldly plots, not just "womens rights/voting". They really enjoy the fantasy genre more than the futuristic genre, but they have nothing against that genre. its been a 80/20 split. I've been using all of this in my game design for a new title.

It is my hope that we are making more strides to grow the female audience in interactive entertainment.

Edited by - digitaldirt on December 5, 2001 5:42:35 AM

### #29MSW  Members

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Posted 05 December 2001 - 12:10 AM

Haste - Ever heard of "chick flicks" and romance novels? Arn''t those aimed more at females then males?

I''m not saying a female isn''t going to be interested in guy type forms of entertainment (or vice versa)... or that certain examples in entertainment cannot "cross over"...but there are some very general stories, ideas, concepts, characters, and themes that attract females more then men (and vice versa).

Games being a form of entertainment are no different...nor should they be...

Digitaldirt - I''m just throwing ideas up to see what sticks...It''s good that you''ve included females in your brainstorming sessions, it really is...But, from your postings, you seem to be giving them two different game settings to chose from...fantasy and futuristic...Has the potential for a more modern game setting been brought up? something that doesn''t fit into the common cliched RPG game settings?

I''m also curios about the "different ages" of females you have included in your groups...what are the age ranges? do any have kids, families? in school? single, married, divorced? grandparents? teens?

### #30Sandman  Members

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Posted 05 December 2001 - 01:13 AM

Yay, another games for girls thread

I agree with Hase here. You don't have to target women particularly. Funnily enough, just like men, women like different things. Some girls might like playing My Little Pony's Adventure In Happy Fun Land, others enjoy Quake III.

You could argue that there are two types of women gamer:

1: Regular Gamers. These play the same games as men through choice, and are therefore unlikely to even consider My Little Pony's Adventure In Happy Fun Land unless they get to frag some guys in it. I believe there are women only quake clans dedicated to fragging blokes.

2: Occasional Gamers. Most women I know fall into this category. These people generally don't play games, since they often have 'better' things to do, but that doesn't mean they are completely opposed to playing games. They certainly don't spend much money on games, preferring to play on their boyfriends/brothers/fathers computer. Thus they are very unlikely to play My Little Pony's Adventure In Happy Fun Land since it is very unlikely that any guy will be seen dead with it installed on his computer. They tend to prefer games which don't take a long time to play and relatively simple controls. In otherwords, stuff which you can pick up and play very quickly. Violence isn't really an issue, neither is big boobs. For example, my girlfriend likes Kill 'em All (a missile command style game where you shoot cute bunnies with parachutes) Lemmings, Tetris, Tekken 3, stuff like that. Half of the games she likes could be written in an afternoon.

In short, by writing a game like My Little Pony's Adventure In Happy Fun Land, you are not only alienating the male gaming population, but you also alienate most of the female gaming population too.

In other words, just write the game how you like. Some women will like it, some women will hate it. Some men will like it, some men will hate it.

Edited by - Sandman on December 5, 2001 8:18:22 AM

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Posted 05 December 2001 - 01:21 AM

quote:
Original post by MSW
Hase - Ever heard of "chick flicks" and romance novels? Arn''t those aimed more at females then males?

But I can enjoy a good "chick flick" now and then too! SPECIALLY with my girlfriend.

I''ve been reading this thread, and what comes to mind most clearly in the whole guys vs. girls, nature vs. nurture thing is that perhaps, on the whole, girls are simply discouraged from playing computer games AT ALL.
A good game will appeal to female gamers. But it is VERY difficult to design a computer game that will actually bring more women to the PC to play games. I take my sister as an example: she''s nearly computer illiterate - knows just enough to get on the Internet and use the word processor to type out her reports and things. She plays "Spider" (a silly card game) and "patience" while she''s working sometimes, but I don''t see her ever getting into a game that requires full attention. I don''t think I could convince her to play a full game.

People might not remember what you said, or what you did, but they will always remember how you made them feel.

### #32 Anonymous Poster_Anonymous Poster_*   Guests

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Posted 05 December 2001 - 01:21 AM

quote:
Original post by Drizzt DoUrden
[...]and the girls around here spend more than 14 hours a day on making themselves look like the girls on the Jay Rule video or whatever the hell that dumb-shits name is.

God, And I thought that was only my town. I now fear for all of humanity. I know many girls who dont act this way, and respect them for that. Everyone else... Hey, if you want to act stupid, be my guest.

Z.

### #33 Anonymous Poster_Anonymous Poster_*   Guests

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Posted 05 December 2001 - 01:32 AM

quote:

Original post by Hase

but because these games (2D platformers, FPSs, RPGs and martial arts games / beat ´em ups) are games which are the least attractive to the casual gamer, which women in nine out of ten cases are.
In order to be good at Quake Deathmatch you have to have a lot of 3d experience, quick reflexes and lots of practise. In order to be able to play a beat ´em up well you have to know a lot of moves.

I would be interested to know why the 2D platform genre does not get acceptance among women. Do these not count as a subset of the problem solving genre which traditionally appeal to women?

### #34Fox Mc Cloud  Members

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Posted 05 December 2001 - 01:34 AM

quote:
Original post by Hase
1) It´s not about the main character, or the representation of that character. Male players have no problem playing female characters and vice versa.

Well, maybe for single-player games, but when it comes to an online game you don''t want to fool the others by looking like a girl / a girl doesn''t want the other players to think she''s a guy.
I know I wouldn''t take a female character in an online game, and my girlfriend always takes female characters too (in Darkstone, Soldier of Fortune, Quake3...). She wanted to play CounterStrike and was getting quite good at it but dropped it because she was annoyed that there''s no female character...

But again, in a single player game, I don''t mind and I don''t think girls do either.

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### #35Hase  Members

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Posted 05 December 2001 - 02:06 AM

@MSW:

I´m familiar with the term "chick flicks", and I think that there might come a time when computer games along those lines could work. One of the problems is that this genre of novel or film relies heavily on characters, not actions. I think what we´re talking about here is a soap game (the sims?), which would create big problems in the way of interactive storytelling. Also the genre of the classical adventure games is as good as dead, so I wouldn´t consider doing a game like that. I also think that creating games along the lines of "chick flicks" are not what the market needs right now. It is a very specialised form of entertainment geared towards the female audience, and while it may work reasonably well with films and books, I don´t think it´s wise to make games like that right now, because usually female gamers DONT want to be classified as the rosamunde-pilcher reading stereotype.
Maybe you can integrate some of the themes into a game, but you have to be very, very careful there as the line between good narrative and cliché is extremely thin with games. And before you go for the stereotypes *again*, you´d better not do it at all.
Another consideration is the current market situation. Nobody can afford making a triple A title which is geared for an audience which is as unpredictable and unreliable as female casual gamers (even if they´d like it there´s no guarantee they´d buy it - there are only very few marktet studies... etc.)

So, while I think that there may come a time when games like that are possible, I doubt that it will be within the next few years. I´m talking about full retail titles, not some cheap budget games - There would probably be an option there, but personally I wouldn´t want games to go that way. If we make games for girls, we should do it to the best of our abilites, not some crap which sells because it´s pink and has ponies in it.

@Sandman

agreed on all points, especially alienating the audience.

Sure you can enjoy a chick flick with your girl, but the situation is a bit different. If you have a game then you want someone to actively buy and play it, not consume it passively.

So maybe all we can do is make the games we would make anyways, and just make them a little bit more attractive for girls?

@AP (2)

The 2d-platform genre is as good as dead anyways (at least on the PC), so I don´t think it would be very fruitful to pursue that path. I don´t think that these games are a subset of the puzzle solving genre, as you don´t have to really solve anything, if at all, the puzzles are more about finding the right location, with a lot of running around in between. The puzzles women tend to go for are more immediate and direct, there is no context or environment you have to put it in.

@Fox Mc Cloud

I don´t think that it´s much of a problem in online games, as its all about playing a role. If someone wants to be a barbarian, you can do that and nobody will be upset if your gender doesn´t correspond with that of your character. It´s true, the deeper the immersion goes (MMORPGS), the more the players tend to choose characters which share traits with them. But including the options of female player characters isn´t really that much of a bother, and putting some gender-related gameplay issues in won´t make that much of an extra effort.

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Posted 05 December 2001 - 02:13 AM

quote:
Original post by Hase
So maybe all we can do is make the games we would make anyways, and just make them a little bit more attractive for girls?

I think that''s indeed all we can do. Perhaps get some female programmers on our teams, some female testers, artists, etc.
And ALWAYS keep in the back of your mind "what would my sister/girlfriend/wife/mother think about this feature?". Doing it that way, you will simply create a good, enjoyable game that is not blatantly sexist and therefore doesn''t scare off the female players.

People might not remember what you said, or what you did, but they will always remember how you made them feel.

### #37Fox Mc Cloud  Members

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Posted 05 December 2001 - 02:33 AM

quote:
Original post by Hase
Also the genre of the classical adventure games is as good as dead, so I wouldn´t consider doing a game like that.

That nearly no new adventure game is being developed doesn''t mean it wouldn''t be a good idea... I miss those games so much ! why doesn''t anyone make games like these any longer? Sam And Max and Day Of The Tentacle must be my favorite games ever
The latest (major) adventure game must be Grim Fandango from LucasArts (THE masters of the genre)... Any others apart from that?
I think it''s a genre that suits female well too.

(by the way, my girlfriend''s favorite games are real-time strategy... Total Annihilation, Total Annihilation Kingdoms etc... I guess girls rely more on reflexion than us and our "me-see-me-kill" quake-likes )

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### #38digitaldirt  Members

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Posted 05 December 2001 - 03:05 AM

btw: "Chick-Flick" is just another ignorant guy term. Say a new movie is a love story, like "Serendipity"... oh no... another chick flick. Its not marketed as a chick flick. thats kinda just a slang term that has appeared by beer drinkin, football watching, guys... (I must point, those 2 examples are also stereotypes..)

The reason Fantasy and Fiction are so pleasing, is becuase they are "unknown" and that appeals to a lot of people, to discover a new land... If you did an RPG game based in a normal everyday society and the year is 2002... well... first off, try to create that world will ya... too big. In fantasy realms, the artists can really do whatever they want to do, making for a more intersting story, landscape and characters. as apposed to a suburban neighborhood and your main character is a skateboarder who has to steal homework from jimi''s house and work up the urge to ask a girl across the street to a dance. not too fun for guys or girls. just silly, like that powerranger pop-star idea. (not saying its bad, just not too fun.)

Space Quest and Kings Quest were even fun and they were both on the opposite ends of the RPG genre. excellent games though.

Btw: A genre of game that is equally enjoyed by both male and females is side-scroller games like super mario brothers, commander keen, and so on.

### #39Sturm  Members

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Posted 05 December 2001 - 04:28 AM

Okay I just want to add a little personal note on this one.

(I''m jusing man/woman here)

Okay I''ve tried to write something here, but came up short since it all sounds like it came from a beer drinkin, football watching, guy, and if these one thing I ain''t then its that (I don''t drink and sport is something you do not watch on TV, if I had one).

You say that Commander Keen is fun or at least enjoyable, but who want to make/play those any more. I mean they were great for their time but that''s more than a decade ago.

If I should create a game that was made with women as the target group, I would ask them what they want to play. After reading through the responces I would properly come to this conclution:

A multi path adaptive story, with a dynamically changing environment that focused on character interaction and nonviolence (Or at least without all the blood and body parts)conflicct solving, using realistic situations. (Actually sounds interesting)

Where as íf I asked a male group:

Monsters, Great FX, fast.

I could do the first thing, but that would take me like a decade to write that, or the second, which could be done in less than a year.

The problem isn''t that it can''t be done, it''s just that it''s too complex.

Well that was just my thoughts on that.

-- Sturm

P.S.
What is a good game for women, in your oppinion?

---------------------------------------------------
Life after death? No thanks, I want to live NOW
--- Sturm 2001

### #40digitaldirt  Members

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Posted 05 December 2001 - 05:35 AM

Yes I agree with you very much. the football/beer thing is a classic american depiction... thats all it is.

Commander Keen and Super Mario Brothers will always be fun games. The problem is, The big companies who make video games don''t see a point in making games like that, becuase even if you did, they wouldn''t sell for very much or even make the company money. You ask any new game company what they are making and no matter what genre, they all want "cut scenes"... those magical movie-like character building "cut scenes". And just by adding this little movie-isque feature into your game, you can sell it for atleast 39.99 upon initial release. Blizzard is perhaps one of the most successful companies at the whole cut-scene cinematic escapes.

But if you look at your options, everything has been done. I rack my brain for ideas of a new genre of game, and fall short. Ever since 3D came out, we''ve boxed ourselves in this reality that says... "ok... it has to be 3D, becuase its new and ''state of the art''". The whole 2D-sprites thing has also been done a million times over.

If you look at it in the whole picture of things. All industries are like this. They reach a peak in their development, where they cannot go any higher, just faster, more effects. It depends on the platform. We have yet to see a game that is fully rendered 3d action. I''m not talking about the texture, light, smoke and blood effects of the Quake III engine or Unreal2. I''m talking about serious movie quality 3D Rendering. Close to life, such as what ''Square Pictures'', did for that Final Fantasy flick.
Even that, could use a lot of improvement. But it depends on the hardware. If we all had Cray Systems or SGI setups, then we might stand a chance. But we''re stuck with our puny 2Ghz systems. hehe.

Anyway, I just wanted to further thank everyone who has been involved in this topic/discussion. It has been an interesting ride, and appreciate all the input. This posting gamedev.net community is awesome. Despite a few posters who post the outright dumbest things, this has been a wonderful community to be apart of.

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