Rogue, Hack,
I kind of get where sleepwalker''s coming from - since i started programming games, i always end up going through how events could be done in my head on a basic scale, with every game i play.
Sleepwalker, I think your a bit off here. The programmers, the logical people, are not usually the designers of the game. They''re the implementors. Most games have designers who dont program the games.
That said, I''d also like to add that I think it''s a bad idea to have someone who doesn''t know how computers design the game. Why? Because they wont have the abitlity to actually figure out whats feasible to do.
--TheGoop
That said, I''d also like to add that I think it''s a bad idea to have someone who doesn''t know how computers design the game. Why? Because they wont have the abitlity to actually figure out whats feasible to do.
--TheGoop
Well, you are only partially right...
The designers say what they want to have,
and the developers see if it''s feasible.
If it''s not they MAKE it feasible.
I think the new Ultima is an example for that...
It''s quite a memory hog...hungrier than jaws himself...
They should have worked on that some more...
- Sleepwalker
The designers say what they want to have,
and the developers see if it''s feasible.
If it''s not they MAKE it feasible.
I think the new Ultima is an example for that...
It''s quite a memory hog...hungrier than jaws himself...
They should have worked on that some more...
- Sleepwalker
they *did* spend a lot of time on it...it was 5 years (i think) in the making, with a 2-year hiatus to make ultima online.
(correct me if that''s wrong...well, i''m sure you would anyway)
i think it''s pretty impressive, but you need nutty hardware to really run it well...that''s why i have so much respect for console programmers...they don''t have a rapidly-moving hardware industry to play with, yet they still manage to make more impressive games with better engines, more depth, better graphics, etc.
the crash bandicoot series is a perfect example of this.
aaron
-----------------------------
LeChuck! GRRRRRR.
(correct me if that''s wrong...well, i''m sure you would anyway)
i think it''s pretty impressive, but you need nutty hardware to really run it well...that''s why i have so much respect for console programmers...they don''t have a rapidly-moving hardware industry to play with, yet they still manage to make more impressive games with better engines, more depth, better graphics, etc.
the crash bandicoot series is a perfect example of this.
aaron
-----------------------------
LeChuck! GRRRRRR.
gameplay is definitely everything.. what are games for if not to play them?
sleepwalker, are you a game programmer putting down carmack? you must certainly be headed for the inner-most circle of hell
but seriously, good graphics can add alot to the gameplay, increase the immersion factor. of course, they shouldn''t replace the rest of the gameplay.
to say quake has no gameplay, though, i think is unfair. it has no plot, granted, but it''s more addictive than heroin. i think that, and the following it has, proves that it must have good gameplay.
sleepwalker, are you a game programmer putting down carmack? you must certainly be headed for the inner-most circle of hell
but seriously, good graphics can add alot to the gameplay, increase the immersion factor. of course, they shouldn''t replace the rest of the gameplay.
to say quake has no gameplay, though, i think is unfair. it has no plot, granted, but it''s more addictive than heroin. i think that, and the following it has, proves that it must have good gameplay.
Think about this....
Imagine Moria (That''s the only Roguelike ascii game I ever played, but I played it to death) in it''s full beauty with all the visual and audible splendor of Q3 or UT.
That''s what every Game developer should ultimately aspire to, the perfect blend of gameplay and game presentation. The best games these days strike an excellent balance between just these two elements. We should never promote either one of these elements at the grave expense of the other.
Imagine Moria (That''s the only Roguelike ascii game I ever played, but I played it to death) in it''s full beauty with all the visual and audible splendor of Q3 or UT.
That''s what every Game developer should ultimately aspire to, the perfect blend of gameplay and game presentation. The best games these days strike an excellent balance between just these two elements. We should never promote either one of these elements at the grave expense of the other.
is it possible that one of the reasons that those games were so much fun is that we needed imagination to get into them?
i certainly don''t think that gameplay and graphics are mutually exclusive, but as a previous poster pointed out, Q3 and UT would be terrible without the beautiful presentations. with FPS you don''t need imagination; in fact, sometimes it can take away from the experience. i don''t need to imagine a marine firing rockets at me from across the room; i can see him right there, along with the smoke trails, explosions, etc.
with rogue on the other hand, all you see is the little ASCII 2 character (i think that''s what it was) on the screen, running from k''s and b''s and such...not very easy to get into or enjoy unless you imagine that you really *are* being chased by a kestrel and that it''s life or death depending on how well you fight (or run).
i guess it comes down to what kind of imagination is required to get into a game, if any. pretty soon we won''t *need* any imagination...we can just `Plug and Play''.
does anyone agree or am i on crack?
-----------------------------------------
Look behind you! A three-headed monkey!
i certainly don''t think that gameplay and graphics are mutually exclusive, but as a previous poster pointed out, Q3 and UT would be terrible without the beautiful presentations. with FPS you don''t need imagination; in fact, sometimes it can take away from the experience. i don''t need to imagine a marine firing rockets at me from across the room; i can see him right there, along with the smoke trails, explosions, etc.
with rogue on the other hand, all you see is the little ASCII 2 character (i think that''s what it was) on the screen, running from k''s and b''s and such...not very easy to get into or enjoy unless you imagine that you really *are* being chased by a kestrel and that it''s life or death depending on how well you fight (or run).
i guess it comes down to what kind of imagination is required to get into a game, if any. pretty soon we won''t *need* any imagination...we can just `Plug and Play''.
does anyone agree or am i on crack?
-----------------------------------------
Look behind you! A three-headed monkey!
Actually what I was referring to is Ultima 9 or 10 or 11 (the new one anyways) and not UO.
I agree that Quake and UT can be very addictive, although they don''t have a gameplay. It''s just fun to run around killing other avatars, and watch them gibs fly, splattering red liquid everywhere. It''s FUN but it''s not gameplay I think.
And I didn''t say tat Quake and friends was bad just ecause they use technology. Like theRaskell said, we should have both, and it is a saddening fact that although there are experts on both fields (technolgy and gameplay) and that they can''t bring their skills and ideas together to make a game with kick-ass graphics and gameplay.
If the moria (or any other roguelike developers) would team up with the UT team (or any other technology developers) they could make an awesome game. I think this would be the next generation of games.
Enough ranting...
(Hey a weird thought: What about having TWO computers playing Q one and Rogue on the other? Ooops, forgot I only have two hands...I''ll have to fix that)
- Sleepwalker
I agree that Quake and UT can be very addictive
, although they don''t have a gameplay. It''s just fun to run around killing other avatars, and watch them gibs fly, splattering red liquid everywhere. It''s FUN but it''s not gameplay I think.And I didn''t say tat Quake and friends was bad just ecause they use technology. Like theRaskell said, we should have both, and it is a saddening fact that although there are experts on both fields (technolgy and gameplay) and that they can''t bring their skills and ideas together to make a game with kick-ass graphics and gameplay.
If the moria (or any other roguelike developers) would team up with the UT team (or any other technology developers) they could make an awesome game. I think this would be the next generation of games.
Enough ranting...
(Hey a weird thought: What about having TWO computers playing Q one and Rogue on the other? Ooops, forgot I only have two hands...I''ll have to fix that
) - Sleepwalker
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