Uhh... CRPG''s haven''t been improving "at all" lately, except what Baldurs Gate just showed that CRPG can have beautiful graphics. Still, I believe that MUDS are the closest game that do have somekind of adventuring in big and interactive world, but there are some problems: 1) Hard to get into (I still haven''t, after trying half year) 2) Missing graphics cause the player not to get good picture about other characters ect. 3) Only online Nethack has been more close to what I might consider "perfect" crpg, because the new version FINALLY added tilegraphics, and it''s pretty complicated game after all. Now, I have been just wondering that what kind of game would make next step on dynamic CRPGS. I had this idea about "Infinity" engine, which would be module system... The engine would be freeware, and basically it would be JUST engine which loads additional maps/worlds into it. Everyone could make their own rooms (just like in muds) and the wouldn''t play multiple different games, just only one: There would be one ready made world, which would be the standard place to start playing. Then, players who programm their own rooms, could expand this world with their creations, and so on. OK, so I''m just talking about another mud ? Nope. What I would hope to see in this engine, would be that it would have some basic bitmap loading features, and so characters, monsters, scenery, (scroll)maps, and ect. could be throwed up, to help player to get better view about whats happening. There would be no "rules" of creation, except that the game world would have some preferrations like that rooms have to be related to fantasy world. This would cause players to creater really bizzarre adventures and so on Would be just cool... just an idea. Any comments ? I''m talking about kind of Nethack / Mud game, but with graphics, and not-so-linear game play. I HAVE actually played this kind of game, and it''s called "Legend Of Red Dragon" -> Download the server file, throw 100 different additional user made packets, and computer simulated human players, and you have really complicated and fun hack''n''slash rpg

OK, you've hooked me. If I weren't knee deep in a large and exciting project already (and way understaffed too!) I'd go out and code this one in a three week nonstop frenzy! Anyway, I am, so I can't However, if you'd like to take the lead, I'd love to get involved in coding a project like this... If you're interested, contact me

novalis@technologist.com

PS: If you're not, I may just steal this idea and do it on my own a few months down the line!!!

Edited by - novalis on 3/3/00 11:56:08 AM

Yeah that sounds like a great idea!
i''d be interested in helping out if you''re serious about starting a project.


_________________Gecko___
Gecko Design

So, let''s see... Just some thoughts...

Everything in the game that the players can interact with is an "object". So the game doesn''t make any distinction between rooms, monsters, chairs, daggers, gold, ...etc.

Each object is "run" by a script that defines how it behaves when given certain stimulus. Stimulus inputs can be things like being looked at, being kicked, being picked up, ...etc.

So, because everything is controlled by scripts, the base program should never really need to change. This allows users to continually add whole new realmss of monsters, rooms, NPCs, and objects just by creating new scripts for them.

Does that sound right on?

Novalis: You need to look at the source code for any LP based MUD. MudOS and MUDLib for the basis of what you are talking about. You will be suprised what you can accomplish with that paradigm. Enjoy. BTW, your competition for a game like this would be EverQuest and all the graphical muds out there. Your interaction using graphics is severly complicated by the ability to load and unload graphics on a users video card. Even Neverwinter Nights is going to face the graphics problem. Customizable graphics is ver difficult because it is something local on the clietn therefore you have to manage it.

Just a few thoughts on the idea. Good luck with your project.

Kressilac
ps I have programmed muds since 1990. If you want any advice about things email me.

If you are going to do this project you should get a tools programmer to program a simple map editor that also has a script editor in it. You could say make a point on a map. Give it a Character characteristic and click the point then drag it around the screen, everywhere you dragged it that NPC would go in game. You could give it a list of random respones and maybe, if you wanted to get really complicated, you could have the character look for hot words.. for example if your mission was based on finding and killing a dragon you could ask the NPC something to the effect of "Have you seen a dragon around here?" the NPC''s code would pick out the word Dragon and reply with "A dragon you say? Why yes, there is a dragon in the cave in the north-eastern part of town."

Just an idea. I''d like to help but I too am knee deep in a project.

- Zeke Templin

I''ll be darned ! Honestly, I didn''t know that Baldurs Gate uses Infinity engine, it just came into my mind as good name for infinite gaming (or maybe I heard about Infinity before, but I didn''t remember it clearly, and it just haunted in my mind)

Hmm... didn''t Nethack get tilegraphics just three years ago ? I might be wrong...

OK, to clear some mistakes that I probably caused with my sloppy english: Game would NOT have online game feature (atleast originally), because the game engine would simulate other heroes in the game. Because the game would be 100% turn based, this wouldn''t eat lots of resources even after 200 "players" are emulated at one time.

The reason why I would choose this kind of "hardcore" textbased system, is that it IS the only way to create complex RPG without getting any profit ! Also it is the only way to create complicated RPG... uh... not... well, Ultima Online has made it pretty well, even after the graphics are great
Still, 100% textbased rpg doesn''t draw players to play the game that much, and the reason is simply that it''s too hard to into the game. This is why I would like to have engine, which is 50/50 textbased, and graphical based engine. For an example, player is playing game, and goes for maze... After 10 hours of playing the game, he FINALLY gets out of the maze. Now, he wants to draw a map, how to get out from there, because the game didn''t include the map anywhere.
He draws the map with PSP/Photoshop/whatever, and imports it as 320x200pcx 256 drawing (for an example), and creates variables & scripts for the map. Then, when another player finds the map, he can buy it, he can look picture from the inventory, and so on...
The example is little stupid because 1) game wouldn''t have online option (atleast originally), and 2) I''m talking about world that can be upgraded freely, but this kind of "download this, and you will get map for dungeons, that can be found at shop in the middle of nowhere" doesn''t make anyone to download the patch

MAYBE, the game should have online update system ? It would always check the server (I''m getting 256k lightcabel, hint hint for new OFFICIAL patches, that are created by users, but added by sysop, and then it would just patch the game. Again, this is just an idea.

LORD was actually fun singleplayer game, because there was no reason to play it. The only reason to play it online, was to get into #1 in top list of players, but for some reason, the SP-mode (after numbers of addons) kept me playing for couple of days, just for a fun
Then, there was new game: Dink Smallwood, and I was amazed: new game by the creator of LORD, and it can be modified and people can create new quests, COOL ! Err.... not exactly, and this is why the game like Dink never became such a big thing as LORD: yes, it had better graphics, no, it wasn''t as easy to modify as lord... or maybe it was, but it IS slow to create bitmap worlds, point. Too bad, but there are only about 10-20 popular usermade quests, and each time the realm changes 100%, it doesn''t just patch.

Hmm... after thinking this game, maybe somekind of online thingy might be good, but I cannot just imagine in my mind really well... It seems to be, that after all this kind of game that doesn''t have linear levels, doesn''t have any changes to become fun, like LORD where you TRY to become the best of the best
But creating online game... what does it do to the game ? Answer: it becomes just another mud, and probably not even popular one, because it cannot be played with any telnet client, but needs own client program.

The King Of Dragon Pass has been popular game (even after it''s complex system), because it is still linear, and there is clear goal. Actually, to understand why this project wouldn''t be fun to play, just try this:
Buy license for Ultima Online, and install it on your machine. Then spend two years to create AI heroes on the world, and after that play it by yourself for maybe a couple of hours..... Hard, isn''t it ? It''s not fun to play alone ! Fun "openwide" crpg needs a good and complicated plot, but then it easily becomes a linear ! And what about Baldurs Gate ? Baldurs Gate is big, but compared to this what I''m trying to "desing", it''s just an average size.

The game, BTW, should have a parser system, I think, even after it would be little poor... I don''t mean that it would throw the game back to Ultima 3 level, but like in Leisure Suit Larry 7, it would just help the game to become more complicated, even after there are already things like moving with arrowkeys, and so on. Still, to make game like this complicated enough, and even more important, FUN ENOUGH, it needs own communication system with creatures&players. This might be a simple ABC choosing system, or maybe even something more complicated, but absolutely nothing like nethacks "you talk to DOG, DOG says "wuhwuh""... It''s pathetic in my opinion, but afterall, Nethack doesn''t have plot (as far as I know, if we don''t count the MAIN GOAL as a plot

Then, if we state that this kind of game isn''t fun, and online version is, how can this online version be created ? What kind of style ? OK. My 20 cents would be that it should be 2D-version of an Alphaworld-virtual reality. Then there should be quests, but for MUD element, there should be still change to create scripted actions (and lots of those). The Virtual-World element would guarantee that players can create own house and so on, and there would be no actual "Big Plot", but the game would be just a "hang around and look for usermade quests", after all, this works for MUDS

Again, more and more, this "project" (that I never started, and maybe I''m never going to start ! Who knows...) becomes like a MUD, and that IS NOT what I want ! You might think that I have some "problems" about telling what I want, and yes, I DO ! Shortly: I want to create game that includes MUDS, Virtual Worlds, and Nethack, but I DON''T WANT that it becomes MUD, Virtual World, or another Nethack. I don''t want that it becomes a hack''n''slash, I don''t want that it becomes a simulation, and I don''t want that it becomes boring ! ... "heh, sure, easy, when do we start coding ?"

I have to say, I DO HAVE ideas, but now we would need Sid Meier to tell us "how to make a boring game a fun one".