Author
Reading the thread with everyone''s age and how they got into programming was great! But now I want to know ... how many of us are female?
not me 
but i know my girlfriend is into computers, she doesn''t do game programming though. all she knows is how to make webpages. lol
but i know my girlfriend is into computers, she doesn''t do game programming though. all she knows is how to make webpages. lol
I''m a guy -- I think you''ll find that 99% of game programmers are guys, because they are the ones who tend to play games to begin with.
www.gamecenter.com always does articles on female gamers. Unfortunately, it seems that they are few and far between (which is why even less program games)
-Chris
---<<>>---
Chris Rouillard
Software Engineer
crouilla@hotmail.com
www.gamecenter.com always does articles on female gamers. Unfortunately, it seems that they are few and far between (which is why even less program games)
-Chris
---<<>>---
Chris Rouillard
Software Engineer
crouilla@hotmail.com
We already did this here:
http://www.gamedev.net/community/forums/Topic.asp?topic_id=7497&forum_id=11&Topic_Title=&forum_title=General+and+Game+Programming+Discussion
and yes, I''m female.
-fel
http://www.gamedev.net/community/forums/Topic.asp?topic_id=7497&forum_id=11&Topic_Title=&forum_title=General+and+Game+Programming+Discussion
and yes, I''m female.
-fel
Most girls don''t like games and think they are childish...
-Trev
P.S. Few are geeky enough to know otherwise
hehehe
I compare the number of females that became programmers to the number of times my sister said yes when I tried to get her interested. Virtually nil. I think that many females have better ideas and social skills than most of us cave dwellers here. How I know? Well, I think I remember talking to a few of these rare to be seen in the programming field species in my highschool many, many moons ago. Uga Buga err... I mean Cheers
Author
Well, I read the other thread and see that this topic has, indeed, been discussed. For about five seconds! That thread was mostly about long hair and dating. You''d think girls were having that conversation, rather than boys. ;-)
I just asked, who here is female? I still await answers.
I think I will add: What are the best programming websites out there that are female-oriented or non-gender-biased?
And: I would actually like to discuss the gender issue, but I won''t be surprised if others are worn out by it. Since I''m pretty new to the scene, it''s still fresh in my mind.
In the last thread about this, someone said that guys are better than girls at math. That''s rather like saying guys are smarter than girls, or that guys are hard workers and women are not. It''s an assumption one makes based on what one thinks they have seen to be true, but has not actually tested. Many people have observed how there are less girls than boys in computer classes, and in math classes. They, instead of assuming girls weren''t interested or capable, researched the matter. They found that it''s more likely that girls do not participate in these things because they have been told they won''t be good at them. They have also been told that these things are boring, before they ever even tried them to find out. It seems to be mostly a cultural myth, carried on by those who say, "Well, girls just don''t like/can''t do this stuff" rather than saying, "I could help change this problem; I could support any females I know who go into programming. I could also try to raise interest in computers regardless of gender by telling kids about them."
"all she knows is how to make webpages. lol"
Why is that funny? Making webpages, like it or not, is programming. It may be a simple version of it; but programming it is! I made webpages, too. From there, I decided to program. And here I am. Maybe your girlfriend would get the same idea, if you showed her how great programming is. And maybe she wouldn''t, believing too strongly that programming is for guys.
"I''m a guy -- I think you''ll find that 99% of game programmers are guys, because they are the ones who tend to play games to begin with."
Guys are the ones who tend to play games marketed at guys, packaged for guys, designed for and by guys, and approved of by guys? Well, that makes sense.
No, guys are not the ones who "tend" to play games to begin with. Over 50% of game players, and close to 50% of online game players are female. Duh, most of them are not playing Quake (but some are!). Most of them are playing computer card games, board games, gambling games, and other "mainstream" games that certainly fit the "gaming" category, even if they aren''t strategy or shooter oriented. 50% of websurfers are female. And have you noticed how many websites are built by women? They certainly don''t lack an interest in computers. Why aren''t they going from gamer to programmer?
Maybe no one suggested they could. Maybe it is even suggested to them that that is a "man''s world" or that they would be "bored".
"Most girls don''t like games and think they are childish"
As I said above, 50% of game players are female. Some girls do think specific game genres are childish. Some guys do, too. But most girls *do* like games, very much. Just not the ones aimed wholly and specifically at boys. Even a few girls are determined enough to like those. Have you tried playing a girl-marketed game lately? I suggest "American Girl". See if you''re willing to make the gender crossover, just so that you can play a game on a computer and feel like you''re having fun. This is what many girls must do. They have to ignore the fact that they are being ignored just so that they can do what they love to do; play certain kinds of computer games.
"I think that many females have better ideas and social skills than most of us cave dwellers here."
What have social skills got to do with programming? Maybe it is a solitary pursuit much of the time, but so is writing. As a writer, I know tons of females who are also writers. It doesn''t scare them off that writing is a lonely or solitary profession. And often, they feel as socially inept as any computer geek. Most people feel socially inept. Women do not avoid programming because they have better skills or personalities. They do not avoid programming because they lack ability or cannot have the desire. They don''t because no one says, "do." Because no one relates it to them in a way they can understand. No one stirs up their interest.
C''mon guys. Since you''re the majority here, you can DO something about this. You can include women in any websites you make. You can look specifically for female programmers to work with or hire. You can talk to your sisters, gfriends, and other girls about the joys of programming. You can stop saying things like, "girls can''t do this." At the very least, you can question the above excuses, if you have made them, and try looking at the subject from a new perspective for a little while ... just to see if maybe chicks *could* kick programming ass, if they felt like it.
I just asked, who here is female? I still await answers.
I think I will add: What are the best programming websites out there that are female-oriented or non-gender-biased?
And: I would actually like to discuss the gender issue, but I won''t be surprised if others are worn out by it. Since I''m pretty new to the scene, it''s still fresh in my mind.
In the last thread about this, someone said that guys are better than girls at math. That''s rather like saying guys are smarter than girls, or that guys are hard workers and women are not. It''s an assumption one makes based on what one thinks they have seen to be true, but has not actually tested. Many people have observed how there are less girls than boys in computer classes, and in math classes. They, instead of assuming girls weren''t interested or capable, researched the matter. They found that it''s more likely that girls do not participate in these things because they have been told they won''t be good at them. They have also been told that these things are boring, before they ever even tried them to find out. It seems to be mostly a cultural myth, carried on by those who say, "Well, girls just don''t like/can''t do this stuff" rather than saying, "I could help change this problem; I could support any females I know who go into programming. I could also try to raise interest in computers regardless of gender by telling kids about them."
"all she knows is how to make webpages. lol"
Why is that funny? Making webpages, like it or not, is programming. It may be a simple version of it; but programming it is! I made webpages, too. From there, I decided to program. And here I am. Maybe your girlfriend would get the same idea, if you showed her how great programming is. And maybe she wouldn''t, believing too strongly that programming is for guys.
"I''m a guy -- I think you''ll find that 99% of game programmers are guys, because they are the ones who tend to play games to begin with."
Guys are the ones who tend to play games marketed at guys, packaged for guys, designed for and by guys, and approved of by guys? Well, that makes sense.
No, guys are not the ones who "tend" to play games to begin with. Over 50% of game players, and close to 50% of online game players are female. Duh, most of them are not playing Quake (but some are!). Most of them are playing computer card games, board games, gambling games, and other "mainstream" games that certainly fit the "gaming" category, even if they aren''t strategy or shooter oriented. 50% of websurfers are female. And have you noticed how many websites are built by women? They certainly don''t lack an interest in computers. Why aren''t they going from gamer to programmer?
Maybe no one suggested they could. Maybe it is even suggested to them that that is a "man''s world" or that they would be "bored".
"Most girls don''t like games and think they are childish"
As I said above, 50% of game players are female. Some girls do think specific game genres are childish. Some guys do, too. But most girls *do* like games, very much. Just not the ones aimed wholly and specifically at boys. Even a few girls are determined enough to like those. Have you tried playing a girl-marketed game lately? I suggest "American Girl". See if you''re willing to make the gender crossover, just so that you can play a game on a computer and feel like you''re having fun. This is what many girls must do. They have to ignore the fact that they are being ignored just so that they can do what they love to do; play certain kinds of computer games.
"I think that many females have better ideas and social skills than most of us cave dwellers here."
What have social skills got to do with programming? Maybe it is a solitary pursuit much of the time, but so is writing. As a writer, I know tons of females who are also writers. It doesn''t scare them off that writing is a lonely or solitary profession. And often, they feel as socially inept as any computer geek. Most people feel socially inept. Women do not avoid programming because they have better skills or personalities. They do not avoid programming because they lack ability or cannot have the desire. They don''t because no one says, "do." Because no one relates it to them in a way they can understand. No one stirs up their interest.
C''mon guys. Since you''re the majority here, you can DO something about this. You can include women in any websites you make. You can look specifically for female programmers to work with or hire. You can talk to your sisters, gfriends, and other girls about the joys of programming. You can stop saying things like, "girls can''t do this." At the very least, you can question the above excuses, if you have made them, and try looking at the subject from a new perspective for a little while ... just to see if maybe chicks *could* kick programming ass, if they felt like it.
if a female wanted to program why wont they, no one told me i shouldnt program and no one told me i should, what you were implying in your post is that theres no encouragement for females to prgram,well me and a some of the other programmers i know didnt start because there was someone pushing them to do so they started because they were intrested in computers and whats stopping girls from doing this? and why should people specifically look for female programmers to work on their project thats a form of sexism in its self isn''t it?
Had I known that you would be using your post to bash men just for the fact that they are men, I wouldn''t have bothered to respond. Now, if you have a problem with women not being developers, do something about it, don''t expect that insulting everyone that had the courtesy to respond to your post is going to help people listen to your position in the matter.
I have no problem with women designers, women in the technical industry (my wife is a network design engineer, that you very much), or women gamers. HOWEVER, I do have problems when people like you come in and bash everything men say as sexist just because you feel that that is your only chance to get your point across. We know that most games aren''t geared towards women. We don''t need you coming in and bashing all men because of this.
FACT: Women don''t invest as much money in games. I don''t care, and neither do the makers and sellers of games, if they play windows solitaire or "Who Wants to be a Millionaire?". What game distributers care about is how much money they can get for the games they sell, and men are more willing to spend a LOT more money for these toys than women. If you could make a game geared towards women that would sell, I''m sure they would start trying (hence the huge number of clones of "Who Wants..." coming out now), but nobody pays their rent with good intentions (especially game programmers, who get payed lower than the rest of the industry to begin with).
FACT: Despite what you seem to think, women CAN think for themselves. You basically just tried to blame men for women not wanting to play, and thus develop, games. I''ve tried to get my wife interested in games, and so far the only one she''s played is "You Don''t Know Jack". I''m not saying that men haven''t played some role in this, but the women friends of women have a lot to do with it as well ("You''re not going to play GAMES, are you?").
So you haven''t proved your point, but you did do one thing... you made it fairly certain that I (and half of the other people reading this) will NEVER take your baiting again.
-Chris
---<<>>---
Chris Rouillard
Software Engineer
crouilla@hotmail.com
I have no problem with women designers, women in the technical industry (my wife is a network design engineer, that you very much), or women gamers. HOWEVER, I do have problems when people like you come in and bash everything men say as sexist just because you feel that that is your only chance to get your point across. We know that most games aren''t geared towards women. We don''t need you coming in and bashing all men because of this.
FACT: Women don''t invest as much money in games. I don''t care, and neither do the makers and sellers of games, if they play windows solitaire or "Who Wants to be a Millionaire?". What game distributers care about is how much money they can get for the games they sell, and men are more willing to spend a LOT more money for these toys than women. If you could make a game geared towards women that would sell, I''m sure they would start trying (hence the huge number of clones of "Who Wants..." coming out now), but nobody pays their rent with good intentions (especially game programmers, who get payed lower than the rest of the industry to begin with).
FACT: Despite what you seem to think, women CAN think for themselves. You basically just tried to blame men for women not wanting to play, and thus develop, games. I''ve tried to get my wife interested in games, and so far the only one she''s played is "You Don''t Know Jack". I''m not saying that men haven''t played some role in this, but the women friends of women have a lot to do with it as well ("You''re not going to play GAMES, are you?").
So you haven''t proved your point, but you did do one thing... you made it fairly certain that I (and half of the other people reading this) will NEVER take your baiting again.
-Chris
---<<>>---
Chris Rouillard
Software Engineer
crouilla@hotmail.com
I''d love to know where you got your figures on game players, and since you seemed to rubbish a lot of peoples replies, and how would you know what women felt like about game programming - maybe some even did go into it - and did find it boring, but I suppose you''ve travelled the world and know all that... So go on and lash out at men some more, because your not satisfied with something.
-Mezz
-Mezz
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