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kunos

Member Since 06 Aug 2008
Offline Last Active Mar 05 2015 10:14 PM

Posts I've Made

In Topic: Some programmers actually hate OOP languages? WHAT?!

31 January 2015 - 08:11 PM

Thanks for the tutorial mate, I hope you don't mind me simply ignoring it?. Luckily for me I've got better things to do on a sunday morning than waste my time arguing with a sore idiot on the interwebz with some kind of mental disorder. But I'm glad to have contributed to make you feel smarter today, it was my pleasure to help you reach a new peak in your life, way to go sporty!

 

EDIT: Seriously, the fact that people like you are moderators here really makes me reevaluate the point of participating in here.


In Topic: Some programmers actually hate OOP languages? WHAT?!

31 January 2015 - 05:39 PM

Nice language and conversation handling there from a "senior mod". Congrats.
does vs 2015 looks like that when you install it? My VS 2013 does not, and I dont see any 'deafult' in tools..export setting, just options to import, export and reset setting but hey.. Im stupid so what do I know? I'll leave it to you smart and gentle guys and I promise I will check the world's VS entire install base before making stupid claims.

In Topic: Some programmers actually hate OOP languages? WHAT?!

31 January 2015 - 06:17 AM

 

There's a lot of your history that is wrong and/or misleading. Most of the principles of Object Orientation were modeled in Smalltalk. OOP existed prior to then, however formalization of many of the common principle of object orientation happened in Smalltalk.

 

true.. I shouldn't have used "born" but rather "came to rule" or something like that.

 

But I really think that calling gamedevs "early adopters" is going a bit too far smile.png

 

Regarding Microsoft and C#.. we went from a position where C# was the (only) solution to every problem... maybe you forgot the Windows Phones that just supported C#.. or you forgot the versions of Visual Studio where you had.. new project.. C# or "other languages".. it was all about XNA, Silverlight and co. , to the current situation where .NET became the official scapegoat for the Vista debacle, there are no more "other languages" in VS tongue.png , and C++ is the suggested solution for everything performance oriented.

 

Finally, I find it funny you felt compelled to quote my sentence and post an "answer" to it saying EXACTLY the same thing that I said right after that sentence.. but you got points for that so you must be doing something good obviously. biggrin.png


In Topic: Some programmers actually hate OOP languages? WHAT?!

30 January 2015 - 08:40 PM

OOP was born in a era when computers were getting faster and faster with no sign of a slow down. In those years, it was all about abstractions and optimize programmers' cost and time. Languages such as Java and C# started in that world and hit their target perfectly. Java bureaucracy of interfaces, factories, adapters and all that cruft managed to make a huge impact in the software business, allowing less experienced programmers to jump aboard because most hard and unsafe elements of the process were hidden away.

 

One big advantage of OOP languages that often gets ignored is how they allow for code discoverability and IDE integration. Hit "." after an object and the IDE will tell you what you can do with that thing. Think about the same in C.. you can't, you'll have to rely on naming standards (ie.. in ODE.. I have a dBody , I know I can manypulate it with functions starting with dBodySomething ) or start to dig into documentation. In Java/C#, it's all there in the IDE, the API is autodocumenting itself.

I really got into programming with C++/Java and this is the thing I find most disturbing when trying to use languages without a clear connection between data, and code that can be run on that data.. it's not a surprise that the new era languages such as Go and Rust both went for a solution where the data is clear POD, but you can bind code to the data.. getting the best of both worlds: clear data definition, and code discoverability. 

 

The gamedev world has always been resisting to changes, they were ages late to the "C party" (most games were done in assembler up to fairly recent days), ages late to the C++ party, and never really got in the C#/Java party because the party was over before they showed up (talking about AAA here, if you are writing a Mario clone in 2015 it doesn't really matter what tech you are using).

 

The Java/C# way of approaching abstractions is now "not cool" because we live in very different times.. computers are not getting faster, they're getting actually smaller and slower.. they have more cores and multithread requirements hit us like a rock.. devs had to start worrying about things like battery life.. at that point, the cost of a virtual machine started to loose it's appeal. We're now back in a situation where devs need to fight for every cpu cycle, care about memory to CPU transfer times, caches and so on.. abstraction over these things is not an option anymore.

 

And so you see the shifts.. Microsoft shying away from C# to embrace C++ and similar trends all around the software industry.. the very fact that C++ got such a deep revamp and went into overdrive mode wrt updates is also a sign.

 

All this gave to the "Mike Actons" of the industry the big chance to get out of their labs and proudly claim "see! I told you so!"... my very personal opinion is that they're just naturally inclined to resist changes, but, this time around, they got lucky and history worked in their favor.

 

At the end of the day, OOP is now seen as "uncool" because it doesn't solve the big problems of today's high performance software: parallelism and data locality. But that doesn't mean we should stop use it where it makes perfect sense (ie.. gameplay code). A smart programmer should be able to understand where it's right to use one paradigm or another.. rewriting your basic "GameObject" system because you think your few thousands pointers are slowing your game down and that, by rewriting it DOD will give you 20fps because some dude on the internet said so, is not really a smart thing to do.


In Topic: [Car Physics] Turbochargers and friends

17 January 2015 - 06:23 PM

 


You are right about the clutch pack differential, it doesn't turn into an "open" diff.. the clutches are still engaged creating friction... it's just that the difference of torque in the system is bigger than the clutches friction and the diff starts to slip.. but it doesn't turn into an open diff.

 

Ok, but it makes me confused, if I take the salisbury diff (everybody wants a Lotus49 smile.png )

I more or less understand the concept of the ramp angles and how to derive torque bias ratios, but there are still clutches that provide the locking, and when it comes to exact figures I feel lost.

 

Example:

The wheels have 100Nm and 300Nm road torques, that is 3:1 ratio, if we have a diff with 2:1 bias ratio, in this case it would "open".

And then with the same diff if the wheels have 20Nm and 60Nm, that is still 3:1 ratio, and would "open" again.

But, in the first case the clutches could resist 100Nm torque difference and in the second the same clutches slip at 40Nm difference.

Somehow I have problem with this smile.png

 

 

mah I don't really think about bias. I have an open diff, to make a salisbury I just calculate the slip between the diff cage and the arms and apply friction from the clutches based on that, it all works out by itself.

In your example, the reason why you'll have "only" 40Nm from the clutches is explained by the fact that, in order to have 20Nm+60Nm coming as reaction torque, it is likely your engine torque is also around that value.. thus the force trying to push the clutches against the housing is less than the force in your previous example with 100,300Nm... so it all balances out at the end.

 

BTW, great stuff both of you. Are you using some game engine for your things or custom code? Are you looking for a job perhaps? :P


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